Nas Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Everyone bitched when Mcadoo stated they had no plans to get Webb some reps. Now everyone is bitching because the plan moving forward is to do exactly that. Geno!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Even if a new coach comes in, I think that new coach would benefit from having tape on Webb. New coach may decide to go with Webb and draft someone else with the top pick. Either way, it gives the new coach additional information in order to make a good choice. If the team simply allows Webb to be pushed out the door because they decide to draft a new guy...it just makes things worse I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Even if a new coach comes in, I think that new coach would benefit from having tape on Webb. New coach may decide to go with Webb and draft someone else with the top pick. Either way, it gives the new coach additional information in order to make a good choice. If the team simply allows Webb to be pushed out the door because they decide to draft a new guy...it just makes things worse I think. Tape of him getting murdered because of an incompetent O-Line? Or tape of him throwing 2 yard out routes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I'd say Sullivan did more to help the offensive line than McAdoo by simply calling a balanced offense. Quick breakdown of the offensive line up until Washington: Bobby Hart is a terrible offensive tackle. Ereck Flowers has settled down. John Jerry played better once he stopped playing alongside Hart. Pugh has been solid everywhere they plug him if only he could stay healthy. Jones and Fluker have come in and given the offensive line a spark in the running game as expected. Richburg's concussion ended his season. IMO had Sullivan been running the offense from the beginning of the season and Hart never made the starter, Giants would have won more games. Darkwa is another factor in this equation, I think his running style better fits the limitations of the offensive line. Flowers has settled down? What games are you guys watching? He had like one or two OKAY games. Last week he was his old self. He's terrible at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Tape of him getting murdered because of an incompetent O-Line? Or tape of him throwing 2 yard out routes? Mostly it will show how he handles adversity. Is he David or Derek Carr? C. Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mostly it will show how he handles adversity. Is he David or Derek Carr? C. Wagon Like can he throw the ball away quickly enough, or take a sack without fumbling? That'll tell us a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Flowers has settled down? What games are you guys watching? He had like one or two OKAY games. Last week he was his old self. He's terrible at LT. Yes, yes he has. Don't take my word for it, just check out any detailed film review recently. Could be fooling us, could go back to his old ways, but it's not helpful to dig in on opinions when it comes to young players whose skills and game are in flux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFire Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Even if a new coach comes in, I think that new coach would benefit from having tape on Webb. New coach may decide to go with Webb and draft someone else with the top pick. Either way, it gives the new coach additional information in order to make a good choice. If the team simply allows Webb to be pushed out the door because they decide to draft a new guy...it just makes things worse I think. There is only one problem though...Webb hasn't been taking reps in practice or dressing on game day. The real outrage is that the brain trusts game plan seems to be having Smith as QB1 going forward. If it wasn't then why was Smith QB2 when Webb should have been QB2 and taking reps in practice and dressing on game day? Smith should have been cut 5 games ago to make time for Webb. There is no plan here. The Homer in me hopes that these guys actually have a plan and that Smith is a better QB than Eli and proves us all wrong but the realist in me knows better. There has been no cohesion or vision since day one with this team. This is a clear panic mode reaction to the Redskins game and they are throwing shit against the wall praying it will stick. It won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Yes, yes he has. Don't take my word for it, just check out any detailed film review recently. Could be fooling us, could go back to his old ways, but it's not helpful to dig in on opinions when it comes to young players whose skills and game are in flux. LOL, I was about to ask you to do the same. Flowers has had over 40 starts...and shown nearly no improvement. Maybe from a D+ to a C -. You guys are celebrating the C - students simply because they're doing better than their traditional D and F grades. It's like this "Flowers only had three plays this week where he ran around in a circle and didn't even touch the defender, versus his other games where he averaged four or five" LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Sure man. Great run game you guys have, only you can't seem to convert a 3rd down or find the end zone which is not typical of having a descent run game. Ajayi has only been on our team for 3 games and he's averaging 9.7 yards per carry. Justify your teams failures with your awesome running back and my teams success with our shitty running back. I will wait... 3.4 yards per carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Oh, the front office/coaches screwed the pooch hardcore on the timing of all this. They should've had Webb in practice for weeks at this point. I think Smith is just holding the spot until Webb gets a little more prepared and up to speed. Read the other day that Eli was in the cafeteria one-on-one with Webb. Tells me what's coming.As for what he'll learn...it'll be a realization of the speed of the game. They say there's no experience like live game action. He'll get some of that for his development. Further, you'll get to see whether he's smart enough to take a sack or throw an ill-advised pass. How does he command the huddle. What level of command does he have on the playbook. Does he know his reads. How does he pick up a game plan. Does he do the little things like calling timeouts when appropriate or will that be left to the sideline.Don't get me wrong...and I've said it before...his evaluation will have to be with a grain of salt given who's missing from the lineup. But with 3 or 4 games, you should get a feel for what kind of QB he could be. I can't imagine that he'll be under duress EVERY play. Only review the ones where he has time to throw if that makes you happy.Either way, they have to have some idea of what they have in him prior to drafting not just Eli's replacement, but Webb's replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Oh, the front office/coaches screwed the pooch hardcore on the timing of all this. They should've had Webb in practice for weeks at this point. I think Smith is just holding the spot until Webb gets a little more prepared and up to speed. Read the other day that Eli was in the cafeteria one-on-one with Webb. Tells me what's coming. As for what he'll learn...it'll be a realization of the speed of the game. They say there's no experience like live game action. He'll get some of that for his development. Further, you'll get to see whether he's smart enough to take a sack or throw an ill-advised pass. How does he command the huddle. What level of command does he have on the playbook. Does he know his reads. How does he pick up a game plan. Does he do the little things like calling timeouts when appropriate or will that be left to the sideline. Don't get me wrong...and I've said it before...his evaluation will have to be with a grain of salt given who's missing from the lineup. But with 3 or 4 games, you should get a feel for what kind of QB he could be. I can't imagine that he'll be under duress EVERY play. Only review the ones where he has time to throw if that makes you happy. Either way, they have to have some idea of what they have in him prior to drafting not just Eli's replacement, but Webb's replacement. I think you get nothing, other than him learning what it's like to play behind a shit offensive line, running for his life, taking sacks, and throwing the ball away constantly. If anything, the experience will kill his self esteem and confidence, and ultimately be counterproductive to his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 LOL, I was about to ask you to do the same. Flowers has had over 40 starts...and shown nearly no improvement. Maybe from a D+ to a C -. You guys are celebrating the C - students simply because they're doing better than their traditional D and F grades. It's like this "Flowers only had three plays this week where he ran around in a circle and didn't even touch the defender, versus his other games where he averaged four or five" LOL I do, every week. And I don't always put a lot of stock in PFF and the like, but I watch the game from the lines out too, and I see improvement as well. So I see other people who are watching the game more closely than me, and they're seeing the same thing, so I'm thinking that there's something to it. You will think I'm crazy, but there have even been a few flashes of dominance lately, not mere competence. Seriously, there have been some plays lately that he's been taking his guy back five yards off then ball, or completely stoning his man at the line in pass pro. I don't think its a natural talent issue with Flowers, its a concentration issue, it's a technique issue. And when you're talking about a young guy, in his third year, and its a young third year too (remember, he was still growing when he was drafted), you've got to have a little patience to let him work it out. To a point I'm going all devils advocate on you, because on the balance I'd give Flowers a C-/D+ for the season, about the same place you are with him it seems. But its trending up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Flowers has settled down? What games are you guys watching? He had like one or two OKAY games. Last week he was his old self. He's terrible at LT. LOL there is that fan perception thing kicking in again. Flowers started the season getting abused but he got better as the season progressed. He did have a bad game against Washington and I'd have to ask you who had a great game on the offensive line last week? Flowers had settled down in week 3 (Eagles) to week 11 (Chiefs). He didn't give up a single sack during this timespan. He allowed for no pressure against 49ers & Chiefs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Jerry woudn't do this without a nod from ownership.... Mara & Tisch do not make game to game decisions. They never have since they took over even when things have been bad. Jerry Reese does not have to go ask for permission, that permission came with the job. It does look bad that Eli Manning is getting benched and as owner you didn't make the decision to bench/suspend Eli Manning, Eli Apple, Janoris Jenkins, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie...but you have to tell the media you stand behind Jerry Reese & Ben McAdoo when they make those kind of decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindgreed1 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3.4 yards per carry. Let me break it down for you. Vs Chicago - 5.2 Vs Dallas - 13.0 Vs Denver - 9.6 That's what Ajayi has produced in 3 games. How does your boy stack up over his last 3 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindgreed1 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Let me break it down for you. Vs Chicago - 5.2 Vs Dallas - 13.0 Vs Denver - 9.6 That's what Ajayi has produced in 3 games. How does your boy stack up over his last 3 games? I'll help you out... Vs Redskins - 2.7 Vs Chiefs - 3.7 Vs 9ers 5.0 My math says your boy has 3.8 yard average. Whereas Ajayi has a 9.2 yard average. So where are you getting 3.4 average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I think you get nothing, other than him learning what it's like to play behind a shit offensive line, running for his life, taking sacks, and throwing the ball away constantly. If anything, the experience will kill his self esteem and confidence, and ultimately be counterproductive to his development. And if he plays well under those circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 LOL there is that fan perception thing kicking in again. Flowers started the season getting abused but he got better as the season progressed. He did have a bad game against Washington and I'd have to ask you who had a great game on the offensive line last week? Flowers had settled down in week 3 (Eagles) to week 11 (Chiefs). He didn't give up a single sack during this timespan. He allowed for no pressure against 49ers & Chiefs as well. Yeah...he went from D+ to C- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 And if he plays well under those circumstances? Slim to no chance of that happening, if Eli didn't play well under those same conditions. If anything, the conditions are worse for Geno and Webb as, at least for a portion of the season, Eli had better receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I'll help you out... Vs Redskins - 2.7 Vs Chiefs - 3.7 Vs 9ers 5.0 My math says your boy has 3.8 yard average. Whereas Ajayi has a 9.2 yard average. So where are you getting 3.4 average? Over an entire season. A 70 yard run where he got chased down from behind by linebackers will certainly skew all the 2 and 3 yard gains, i get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindgreed1 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Over an entire season. A 70 yard run where he got chased down from behind by linebackers will certainly skew all the 2 and 3 yard gains, i get it When he plays an entire season with my team you will have those #'s and I'd lay a wager that they're better than Darkwa's #'s on the same year. For now you'll just have to deal with the 3 games he's played on my squad compared to your last 3 games. It's not difficult to see what you're trying to do here (speaking of skewing) you want to include games he played with the phins where he got very few touches. It's cool. That's just as good as you admitting that you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Very few touches? Dude he was their every down back and hes been absolute garbage for the dolphins this season. He averages like 20 carries a game. He averages like 6 for the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The fact is that Manning needs a very good supporting cast around him to be any sort of successful. There are quarterbacks that require far less to be successful. Manning isnt one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The fact is that Manning needs a very good supporting cast around him to be any sort of successful. There are quarterbacks that require far less to be successful. Manning isnt one of them. Outside of maybe Brady and Rodgers I cant name any others in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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