At 0-3, where do the Giants go from here?

[BlueInCanada]

Only two teams since the modern era of football who started 0-3 have made it to the playoffs and neither one made the Superbowl, now if any team can show that history doesnt matter it's the Giants but hey lets be honest this is no where near the same team that made the historic run in 2007.

 

Now that the playoffs are pretty much a gone and said thing, where do the Giants go from here? Now I'm just going to say what I've been saying would happen and that's the Giants are in a rebuild and will be in the coming seasons. It's the same thing that's happening to Pittsburgh aswell, both teams are trying to hold together the same team and philosophy that got them to the big game multiple times and had results. Players get old or leave in FA, rookies and FA pickups don't perform and the league and other teams evolve around you, this is what is plaguing the Giants.

 

The FO and Reese have relied on the same formula for success that has worked in the past 10 seasons for the Giants, however it's obvious that it isnt working anymore. Be it neglecting a position of need or refusing to change a gameplan that has been figured out, too many other factors that have contributed to the Giants being 0-3, the Giants are and are going to be in a rebuild for the foreseeable future.

 

The real question comes down to Mara and Tisch and what they want to see. They could pull the plug on Reese and Co and send them packing, and maybe keep Coughlin but I could see him leaving/retiring if everything gets started from new, although I would love to see Coughlin giving a role inside the FO. However they could also just try to patch the team together ala Snyder style with the Redskins and just half ass it every year, which is pretty much what is happening this year. The window is closing and is almost closed with the Giants, Eli isnt getting any younger and if the losing seasons start to pile up (not to mention the sacks) he could decide to retire with his health and two SB MVPs, heck in the next few seasons.

 

So really what do the Giants do? It's rebuild time in all honesty and it can be handled plenty of different ways by Mara and Tisch.

[BronxRik]

 

 

At 0-3, where do the Giants go from here?

 

0-4?

[Iceman_NYG]

Where do we go? With the current state of how we are playing flushed down a toilet ASAP most probably

[Storm]

To the links, that's where they want to be and where they belong, anyway. Sign me up, I'll play for a fraction and I'll put forth my best effort and give a damn.

[JMFP]

October 29th is the trade deadline. I'd revisit this team in several weeks, and if 0-3 has become 1-6, then I'd consider dumping players for draft picks.

 

I don't know why Hankins and Moore haven't been playing but they should start seeing time.

 

I'd take a close look at the game film, and bench whomever didn't show effort.

 

I'd go with a straight 4-3, blitz a 5th guy, and hope for the best on defense. Fewell should start gambling, and let the chips fall where they may. Would like to see more stunts as well. Other than that, not much he can do with the guys he has.

 

On offense, I'd shorten the routes, eliminate alot of the guesswork, and run some static patterns. If it's covered, dump it to the back our tight end, or just throw it away.

 

Cruz should be running slants, Nicks should be the deep guy, Wilson or Jacobs the outlet guy.

 

Go with max protection, bring in two tight ends. Get Jacobs in there to chip on Beatty's side, since he lacks the strength to handle bull rushers, apparently.

 

If I'm Mara, I'm telling Reese to get his people together and start scouting the SEC.

 

Next year, "BPA"......"best player from Alabama."

[Tempest]

Playoffs? You've been watching any of these games and you are talking Playoffs?

 

Lets get something straight here and now. This problem is different than any I've seen in over 20 years. Today our offense was worst than any third string offense we have ever fielded during a preseason game. Now we did not watch a complete collapse of this football team but I can absolutely guarantee that if the offense continues to play as it did today that the defense will stop playing again shortly after the beginning of the third quarter.

 

Our offense was beaten at every level of the game. Someone posted wondering why the starters were still out there...How could you possibly take them out considering how bad they were after 3 quarters? Are we trying to save them for performing horribly next week?

 

Third week in a row the defense was left with a bag of shit and they should be beating the shit out of everyone on offense from now until next week. Plenty of posts up on our game thread from the armchair QB's saying hey we should have tried some short passes, trick plays, etc. There is no play in any NFL Offensive Playbook that allows for the complete penetration of an opponents defense on every single play.

 

Why isn't anyone open? Is Eli gun shy? Why can't we run the football? Eli did not have 7 seconds back there, 5 seconds or even 3 before the pocket collapsed around him. The very few times he did wasn't because we were doing better, it was because Carolina gave it to us. Barry Sanders couldn't have run behind this line today and for all the dodging and weaving Wilson did back there he was looking a whole lot more like Ron Dayne.

 

Where do we go from here? If the offensive line does not start playing at the NFL level we could very well be the next team to go 0-16. The complete collapse of the offensive line this season is absolutely mind blowing. This is not an offensive line full of rookies. These are veterans who got their asses handed to them.

 

Can't possibly bench everyone who fucked up today, we don't have enough backups.

[UK-Giantsfan]

just had another look at our schedule .........I think we are going 4-12 based on yesterday's performance.

our O line is so bad that it needs a complete overhaul ......there is no way back in 2013....it may be time to clean house.

[Nas]

just had another look at our schedule .........I think we are going 4-12 based on yesterday's performance.

our O line is so bad that it needs a complete overhaul ......there is no way back in 2013....it may be time to clean house.

 

Better draft position... we need it. And of course we need to draft better and those players (1 to 3 rounds) need to see the playing field.. Our OL is far more horrible that we ever imagined and our LBs don't exist... fix those 2 and we're cooking again... I haven't given up hope on JPP yet but Tuck is pretty much what he is now... The excuse a few years back was that shoulder injury... now it's clear that was just an excuse.

[Sephiroth]

What we do for now is play out the season, and try not to get our franchise quarterback killed.

 

But honestly, the time for trying to help this team ended in July, and Reese missed the bus. There's not a whole lot you can do to improve the OL, which everyone knew was the biggest problem area heading into the offseason, as well as the linebackers. What I'd do moving forward is this:

 

1. Go to a short passing game to help mask the ineffectiveness of the OL.

 

2. Rest JPP until he's actually healthy, and start Kiwi and/or Jenkins at end. What's the point of "having depth" if you're going to play your starters at 75% anyway and never let them heal?

 

3. Get someone in for depth at LB, that can perhaps be an on-field coach. Takeo Spikes maybe, or someone of that ilk. Yeah, they might not be able to give you a whole lot, but it doesn't seem like our LB coach can develop talent very well either, and it's hard to imagine a vet like that being worse.

 

If we can pull out a few wins in the next few weeks, maybe we can start talking very minimal trades to salvage the season, but if we don't make it to 4-3 or so I'd say we just stick with what we've got and discuss next year. I think Coughlin should stay, but Gilly and Fewell both have to go, and for fuck's sake, can we PLEASE draft/sign a competent LB and O-lineman.

 

Strangely enough, two years ago I thought we needed the same things we need now. Clearly our needs haven't been addressed.

[Herc]

if they aren't going to try then i don't see the point. somebody needs

 

October 29th is the trade deadline. I'd revisit this team in several weeks, and if 0-3 has become 1-6, then I'd consider dumping players for draft picks.

 

I don't know why Hankins and Moore haven't been playing but they should start seeing time.

 

I'd take a close look at the game film, and bench whomever didn't show effort.

 

I'd go with a straight 4-3, blitz a 5th guy, and hope for the best on defense. Fewell should start gambling, and let the chips fall where they may. Would like to see more stunts as well. Other than that, not much he can do with the guys he has.

 

On offense, I'd shorten the routes, eliminate alot of the guesswork, and run some static patterns. If it's covered, dump it to the back our tight end, or just throw it away.

 

Cruz should be running slants, Nicks should be the deep guy, Wilson or Jacobs the outlet guy.

 

Go with max protection, bring in two tight ends. Get Jacobs in there to chip on Beatty's side, since he lacks the strength to handle bull rushers, apparently.

 

If I'm Mara, I'm telling Reese to get his people together and start scouting the SEC.

 

Next year, "BPA"......"best player from Alabama."

 

 

 

yeah im not sure why he is running x-style routes but i've seen it in 3 games so far this year. what was that sideline jump ball crap? i guess since eli isn't even going to look in nicks' direction we might as well teach cruz how to run every route...

[Sephiroth]

if they aren't going to try then i don't see the point. somebody needs

 

 

yeah im not sure why he is running x-style routes but i've seen it in 3 games so far this year. what was that sideline jump ball crap? i guess since eli isn't even going to look in nicks' direction we might as well teach cruz how to run every route...

He's been running the whole route tree since he's been there. The legendary tip ball, the deep ball... he's more than a slant/comeback guy and always has been. And he's good at it, so I wouldn't be too keen on taking that away.

[gmenroc]

Where do we go? We go to Kansas City to play the 3-0 Chiefs, that we all chalked up as a win just a month or so ago.

 

Seriously, after this season, it's time to do some serious rebuilding. Prepare now to be bad again next year.

 

Chris Snee - has a cap hit next year of 10.5 million on a player option year. Restructure, or be cut. Take the cap hit if necessary. Might as well condense our suckage as much as possible into one or two years rather than spreading out the cap hit and thereby spreading out the suckage.

 

Justin Tuck - let him ride off into the sunset. At 6.5 million this year, though slightly improved over last year, he's not worth half of that next year.

 

Corey Webster - has a cap hit next year of 2.25 million on a player option year. It's relatively cheap for a veteran and though he's certainly not a #1 anymore, he's tolerable as a #2 or #3. After next year, you let him ride off into the same sunset as Tuck.

 

David Baas - you'd love to cut him, but with cap hits of 8.225 and 8.475 in 13/14 and 14/15...that might require us to keep him for 13/14. If healthy, which I don't believe he's ever been since signing with the Giants, I can stomach him, but getting out from under his contract in any way we can as soon as we can, would be advantageous.

 

Hakeem Nicks - I'm honestly undecided on this one. Part of me says to resign him, but then again, he's oft injured and he isn't able to take over games. Now, a lot of that has to do with our offensive line, but still, he just doesn't strike me as the same calibur as even a Dez Bryant or AJ Green. He's a really, really good #1 on an offense that can actually run the ball. But he's not anything special when he's the focus of the offense. I guess I'd make him an offer, but I wouldn't begin to give him the deal Cruz just got.

 

Andre Brown and Stevie Brown - I'd resign both these guys given they're both in contract years, both are injured, and both could be gotten cheap. They might be able to provide some highlights during our upcoming years of suckage.

 

Linval Joseph - Give him Tuck's money.

 

Curtis Painter - Get him off the fucking roster...he shouldn't be here now.

 

Josh Brown - resign him, yesterday's miss aside, he's been a good signing.

 

Every fucking linebacker we have - shitcan each and every one of them. Do it publicly and make examples out of all of them. They're pieces of shit as far as players go. Then, do the very same for each and every individual who was in the organization who had any part whatsoever in those players putting on a Giants uniform.

 

Eli Manning - yes, I'm including him in the needing to be dealt with category. Clearly, he's on the lower rung of elite in this league, but on the upper end of above average. He is not worth his 20.85 million cap hit this year, he's not going to be worth 20.4 million next year either given the improvements this team needs to make.

 

All in all, there need to be some big moves this offseason, hell, even during the season maybe, to some long time, formerly good players. It'll be sad to see some of them go because we all own some of their jerseys and remember too clearly some of their big plays. But, living in the past doesn't win you games and it's time to be a bit 'tough love' on these guys.

[Herc]

He's been running the whole route tree since he's been there. The legendary tip ball, the deep ball... he's more than a slant/comeback guy and always has been. And he's good at it, so I wouldn't be too keen on taking that away.

 

he's more than a slant/comeback guy because unlike most slot receivers he can turn it into a huge play after the catch, but those are the majority of the routes he always ran

[BleedinBlue]

It's definitely time to re-evaluate the entire team from top to bottom and plan an overhaul. One of our first objectives needs to be to get some cap space so we can have some flexibility. We've been hamstrung for the last several years because we aren't managing our cap space well.

 

Secondly, we need to concentrate on youth and the future. Every now and then, a player is still a top player after he turns 30, but it's a rare thing in the NFL. We need to cut ties with guys who were at their prime in our last SB victory and stop rewarding them for it years after they've shot their wad.

 

We absolutely need to fix the o-line and get a running game going or we're going to suck for the next few years. This is a far, far, far bigger problem than our linebackers. Our linebackers get almost 100% of the attention for our problems, yet they are not the reason we are getting our asses handed to us. We could have the 3 best linebackers in the NFL and it means zip, nada, nothing if we can't score a single point against a bottom feeding team that is forced to use it's second stringers. I'm so tired of hearing that we need to spend 10 million a year on a LB as if it's the magic potion to fix all our problems, that I could scream. They are NOT our problem.

 

Lastly: FIRE GILBRAND AND FIRE FEWELL!

[gmenroc]

Linebackers certainly aren't the only piece contributing to this 2013 shit storm, but they're still contributing and need to be included in the overhaul.

 

Offensive line needs updated...they've swung and missed on guys like McCants and Mosely as well as a few I'm probably forgetting. Those misses are showing up in games.

 

Defensive line needs health and help from the guys behind them. Tuck is garbage. JPP is playing hurt. Kiwi, JPP, and Moore seem like a solid 3 going forward with Joseph in the middle. Can we trade Tuck for anything right now given our season is pretty much in the shitter after 3 weeks?

 

Secondary is iffy at best. Prince is fine, Hosely/Webster are 2nd or 3rd DBs at best. Rolle is waning, but he's earning his paycheck. An upgrade here is needed, but we've got too many holes on the offensive line/linebacker groups to worry too much about it this coming offseason. Trading Tuck right now for a starting calibur DB would be helpful, but would be a stop gap measure.

[Iceman_NYG]

It's definitely time to re-evaluate the entire team from top to bottom and plan an overhaul. One of our first objectives needs to be to get some cap space so we can have some flexibility. We've been hamstrung for the last several years because we aren't managing our cap space well.

 

Secondly, we need to concentrate on youth and the future. Every now and then, a player is still a top player after he turns 30, but it's a rare thing in the NFL. We need to cut ties with guys who were at their prime in our last SB victory and stop rewarding them for it years after they've shot their wad.

 

We absolutely need to fix the o-line and get a running game going or we're going to suck for the next few years. This is a far, far, far bigger problem than our linebackers. Our linebackers get almost 100% of the attention for our problems, yet they are not the reason we are getting our asses handed to us. We could have the 3 best linebackers in the NFL and it means zip, nada, nothing if we can't score a single point against a bottom feeding team that is forced to use it's second stringers. I'm so tired of hearing that we need to spend 10 million a year on a LB as if it's the magic potion to fix all our problems, that I could scream. They are NOT our problem.

 

Lastly: FIRE GILBRAND AND FIRE FEWELL!

 

Ive always felt our offense was more the team and less Gilbride. If an OC cannot realise the ineffectiveness off the OL and still keep game planning 7 step drops because they supposedly had a slopshod secondary....that means he cannot adjust. If you cant adjust.....then GTFO!

[Chuck Wagon]

Its like being in a time machine....I tell you....I've lived this before.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp7yIgf11c8

 

C. Wagon

[fringe]

Its like being in a time machine....I tell you....I've lived this before.

 

 

 

C. Wagon

Yes Déjà freakin vu

[Allstarjim]

Corey Webster has played pretty well this year, IMO. I have to watch Game Rewind and endure that beating again, but I am definitely not putting this on the secondary, who, for the most part, has been the only unit on this team that has played pretty well.

 

Linval Joseph is the ONLY contract player who is in a contract year I'd try to make a priority to resign. Stevie Brown, maybe. Henry Hynoski, maybe, but he's got to show it for the rest of this year. Ditto for Terrell Thomas, whose will to come back from a third ACL is exactly the kind of perseverance this team needs. These would all be minor deals with the exception of Joseph.

 

Justin Tuck, I would let walk. Tough decisions need to be made and he's one of them, but to me, it's a pretty easy decision.

 

Hakeem Nicks is going to look for about $13 mil per, that's not going to happen nor should it. We will undoubtedly be turning the page, and that's the right move, IMO, even though I think he's extremely talented. Rolle has 1 more year on his deal after this one, not sure of the cap implications but I'd try to cut him, and that's not a knock on his individual performance, but this team should be clearing payroll.

 

And gmenroc, no WAY I'm resigning Andre Brown, he can collect a check on IR from some other team. Andre Brown has ONE great game in his CAREER. UNO. The max number of games in a row he's been able to play at any given time... five. The max number of games he's played in one season in his career? Ten. NO way am I resigning him with his penchant for injury, especially given the ACL injuries as well. I'm looking for RB depth in the 3rd round and later next year.

 

As far as Eli goes, I don't understand him becoming the highest paid QB in the NFL every time his contract is negotiated. If you are the highest paid that means you are the best. I want him as a Giant until he retires, but next contract I hope is more in line with a $11-$12 mil per range (total with bonuses) than the around $20 mil avg he's going to make the next two years. His lack of mobility is one reason that more money has to be invested in this offensive line, so that savings needs to be allocated there.

 

 

 

That's from a Reese perspective.

 

From a Coughlin perspective, I'm putting the team on notice that if they are a starter they have one game left to perform or they are going to be benched. Now, I'm not going to put a guy like Cordle in over Baas, because I don't want my QB killed in the process of this roster evaluation. But guys like Larry Donnell might get some starts (and Adrien Robinson when he's healthy). Ditto for Justin Trattou, who I'm already wanting to see start, and DaMontre Moore. I'm even entertaining the idea of sending a message by benching Chris Snee for Brewer, and see if he can play there.

 

But there doesn't seem to be any leadership on this team worth a damn. That surprises me. So obviously, the supposed "captains" on this team need to take a look in the mirror, to include Eli.

 

Clearly, this team needs to expend a high round draft pick on an elite, not so-so, OG. And maybe two of them. As badly as Beatty played, he's had one bad game and is still part of the future.

[gmenroc]

I keep Andre Brown at vet minimum or incentives-based deal only. He's good enough to warrant that, injuries aside. Should he refuse vet minimum or incentives-based, then I'm perfectly fine with letting him walk. Aside from his talent when healthy, we're already extremely thin at RB. That said, if Cox gets some playing time and shows something in real games, then perhaps I'm more open to letting Brown go.

 

If I had to choose 4 of the following: Wilson, Jacobs/veteran, Cox, Brown, rookie

 

...I'd take Wilson, Brown, Cox, rookie. All the veterans we've had in from Jacobs, to McGahee, to Hightower, to the other Washington castoff whose name escapes me...none have provided leadership, none have provided yardage, none have contributed meaningful anything.

[JMFP]

Corey Webster has played pretty well this year, IMO. I have to watch Game Rewind and endure that beating again, but I am definitely not putting this on the secondary, who, for the most part, has been the only unit on this team that has played pretty well.

 

Linval Joseph is the ONLY contract player who is in a contract year I'd try to make a priority to resign. Stevie Brown, maybe. Henry Hynoski, maybe, but he's got to show it for the rest of this year. Ditto for Terrell Thomas, whose will to come back from a third ACL is exactly the kind of perseverance this team needs. These would all be minor deals with the exception of Joseph.

 

Justin Tuck, I would let walk. Tough decisions need to be made and he's one of them, but to me, it's a pretty easy decision.

 

Hakeem Nicks is going to look for about $13 mil per, that's not going to happen nor should it. We will undoubtedly be turning the page, and that's the right move, IMO, even though I think he's extremely talented. Rolle has 1 more year on his deal after this one, not sure of the cap implications but I'd try to cut him, and that's not a knock on his individual performance, but this team should be clearing payroll.

 

And gmenroc, no WAY I'm resigning Andre Brown, he can collect a check on IR from some other team. Andre Brown has ONE great game in his CAREER. UNO. The max number of games in a row he's been able to play at any given time... five. The max number of games he's played in one season in his career? Ten. NO way am I resigning him with his penchant for injury, especially given the ACL injuries as well. I'm looking for RB depth in the 3rd round and later next year.

 

As far as Eli goes, I don't understand him becoming the highest paid QB in the NFL every time his contract is negotiated. If you are the highest paid that means you are the best. I want him as a Giant until he retires, but next contract I hope is more in line with a $11-$12 mil per range (total with bonuses) than the around $20 mil avg he's going to make the next two years. His lack of mobility is one reason that more money has to be invested in this offensive line, so that savings needs to be allocated there.

 

 

 

That's from a Reese perspective.

 

From a Coughlin perspective, I'm putting the team on notice that if they are a starter they have one game left to perform or they are going to be benched. Now, I'm not going to put a guy like Cordle in over Baas, because I don't want my QB killed in the process of this roster evaluation. But guys like Larry Donnell might get some starts (and Adrien Robinson when he's healthy). Ditto for Justin Trattou, who I'm already wanting to see start, and DaMontre Moore. I'm even entertaining the idea of sending a message by benching Chris Snee for Brewer, and see if he can play there.

 

But there doesn't seem to be any leadership on this team worth a damn. That surprises me. So obviously, the supposed "captains" on this team need to take a look in the mirror, to include Eli.

 

Clearly, this team needs to expend a high round draft pick on an elite, not so-so, OG. And maybe two of them. As badly as Beatty played, he's had one bad game and is still part of the future.

 

 

I agree with letting guys walks instead of overpaying them. We need offensive linemen, linebackers, and - can't believe I'm saying this - maybe defensive ends. That's going to take alot of money that's currently tied up in underperforming players.

 

The secondary seems to be okay, the wide receivers are fine, and Eli is fine.

 

We need to see how things play out, but left tackle is suddenly an issue right now, and we simply need to get guys that already have a track record because Reese's drafts haven't produced anyone that can jump in and help the offensive line.

 

As far as leadership is concerned, maybe there is some stuff going on behind closed doors that we don't know about.

 

I'd be shocked if Eli doesn't do something this week.

[Nas]

I don't give a fuck what it takes for Baas to get off the roster... who fucking gave him that contract? And why did the FO agreed to it?

[Herc]

im absolutely stunned that KC is only favored by 4 at home next week. we might not even have two of our shitty OL's next week but even we did 4 is way too low. i'd never bet against the giants but ugh that is tempting

[Steitzenhaus]

 

 

I agree with letting guys walks instead of overpaying them. We need offensive linemen, linebackers, and - can't believe I'm saying this - maybe defensive ends.

I think we definitely need defensive ends. Tuck is on his farewell tour and while Pierre-Paul isn't 100% and probably wouldn't be playing right now if we had the luxury to do that, he still has a lot to prove in order for the team to commit to him beyond 2014.

[BronxRik]

Its like being in a time machine....I tell you....I've lived this before.

 

 

 

C. Wagon

 

It can't be a coincidence that both QB #10's have girls names.