Nas Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 seattle gave up a 1st rounder + more to get harvin and i'd imagine they'll be paying him at some point. if no one signs cruz i'm gonna start thinking that there's collusion involved in RFA market Keep in mind the position itself... he's one hit away from being out of football... and no team wants to put that much money into the slot position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 harvin is primarily a slot receiver too, he can just do other things as well. also he has a history of bad migraines. i just think that if this guy is worth giving up a first rounder plus more picks then cruz's true value is at least a late round 1st pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Except that for the length of the rookie contract, teams don't have to pay first round picks nearly as much as Cruz would cost them. So their choice is #1 pick they could have relatively cheap for 3 or 4 years Vs a big cap hit over that same period. The potential on field contributions of the players is only part of the equation in the cap era NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Except that for the length of the rookie contract, teams don't have to pay first round picks nearly as much as Cruz would cost them. So their choice is #1 pick they could have relatively cheap for 3 or 4 years Vs a big cap hit over that same period. The potential on field contributions of the players is only part of the equation in the cap era NFL. yes i understand how draft picks and rookie contracts work. but seattle was willing to pay that price (plus more) for a young top 10 wr that they are eventually going to pay a lot of money to (just like a team would have to pay for cruz). the market is clearly dictating that victor cruz is worth the late first round pick that a contender might be willing to forego to win now. yet seattle pays a higher draft pick price for the guy who plays the exact same position, hasn't produced as much as cruz has over the last two years, and is more injury prone. now if the reason they did that was the kick returning then i guess i can buy that but these are two very similar situations--except one was under contract and the other was in a situation that people have been whispering is the subject of collusion for over 10 years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The reason they did that for Harvin is because he is arguably the most dangerous player in the NFL in space. Cruz is a great receiver. He's not a swiss army knife like Harvin, and he's not as explosive and fast as Harvin. This is not a knock on Cruz. Adrian Peterson, who certainly you can claim bias, said that Harvin "the best all around player I ever seen or you'll ever see." And you can make the argument that Seattle paid too much. They are also in a unique position of not paying their franchise QB very much, while being close to being a Super Bowl caliber team. Not many teams are in that position can even come close to justifying a trade like that, and you have to consider the Carroll/Schneider regime in Seattle has been marked by unconventional thinking, to the say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'm actually starting to think we might end up losing him. A team picking in the bottom-third of the draft would probably find it worthwhile to draft a guy who plays in the slot, but still has the speed to beat you deep... Cruz is a proven commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaNJ Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 You think Cruz can cover the gaping hole left by Boldin? That dude played like a man possessed and was instrumental to get them the trophy. Cruz (and I say this with all the love) is not a #1, he shines to a certain extent because Nicks draws double coverage... and I think the bar was set By Welker and his replacement in NE... I'd say $7M Per year sounds about right... Yes Bolden had a GREAT playoff run... but his in season stats last year... 4TD's and under 1000 yards recieving. They put up a LOT of cash to keep Flaco... a guy like Cruz with good hands and the ability to bust any play to the endzone would not be the worst thing to have. Better then any person they land with that first pick... you have to think for at least this season and next season too. I really do not see the point of paying Flaco and not giving him some legit targets. I hope they do not go after him, I would hate to see him leave Giants Blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Gotta believe that Baltimore is going to have to reload the defense that was just gutted by free agency and retirement. That, and the salary cap consequences due to Flacco's deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 cruz wouldn't be a replacement for boldin because they aren't the same type of receiver. that said, they could definitely use him, but it sounds like they're gonna take their one ring and start rebuilding their defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Yes Bolden had a GREAT playoff run... but his in season stats last year... 4TD's and under 1000 yards recieving. They put up a LOT of cash to keep Flaco... a guy like Cruz with good hands and the ability to bust any play to the endzone would not be the worst thing to have. Better then any person they land with that first pick... you have to think for at least this season and next season too. I really do not see the point of paying Flaco and not giving him some legit targets. I hope they do not go after him, I would hate to see him leave Giants Blue! Yeah Boldin had a great post-season but has severely under-performed for the duration of his time with Baltimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The Pats made a pretty piss-poor decision letting Welker go and instead of offering up the #29 draft pick or whatever to grab Vic, they decided to go with Amendola. Strange. Can't get a better player at #29 than Cruz would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The Pats made a pretty piss-poor decision letting Welker go and instead of offering up the #29 draft pick or whatever to grab Vic, they decided to go with Amendola. Strange. Can't get a better player at #29 than Cruz would be. Do you think Amendola and Cruz would command the same type of contract? Cruz, you have to pay like 7-10 million per year, if not more, to ensure the Gmen don't match, PLUS the draft pick. I am NOT surprised that teams haven't made an offer to Cruz. A first round tender hasn't been signed away from a team in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'm actually starting to think we might end up losing him. A team picking in the bottom-third of the draft would probably find it worthwhile to draft a guy who plays in the slot, but still has the speed to beat you deep... Cruz is a proven commodity. I still think it's highly unlikely (15% chance) another team offers him a contract that the Giants won't match, plus gives up a #1 draft pick... it's why we haven't seen any other teams make an offer thus far. It's too expensive. Reese is going to come away looking like a genius when all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The Pats made a pretty piss-poor decision letting Welker go and instead of offering up the #29 draft pick or whatever to grab Vic, they decided to go with Amendola. Strange. Can't get a better player at #29 than Cruz would be. I don't know I think the Pats are the only organization out there that can cut and sign players at their free will and still be a top 4 team every year. Honestly they could trade Brady and half their offense away and Belicheck would still build a playoff calibur team. Why sign Cruz for 10 mil a year when they can probably get the same results with Amendola in their offense and then use that extra first round pick to stock pile picks at the end of the draft which they do every year. Seriously they have 10+ picks every fucking draft for the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Do you think Amendola and Cruz would command the same type of contract? Cruz, you have to pay like 7-10 million per year, if not more, to ensure the Gmen don't match, PLUS the draft pick. I am NOT surprised that teams haven't made an offer to Cruz. A first round tender hasn't been signed away from a team in 10 years. Isn't Amendola getting around 5+ a year? You're right though Cruz's product is higher quality than Amendola's (or Welker's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFire Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't know I think the Pats are the only organization out there that can cut and sign players at their free will and still be a top 4 team every year. Honestly they could trade Brady and half their offense away and Belicheck would still build a playoff calibur team. Why sign Cruz for 10 mil a year when they can probably get the same results with Amendola in their offense and then use that extra first round pick to stock pile picks at the end of the draft which they do every year. Seriously they have 10+ picks every fucking draft for the last 10 years. It's because they build through the draft and not FA. I would think the Pats are the last team that would do a Cruz deal. They don't over pay, ask Welker, or big FA signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's because they build through the draft and not FA. I would think the Pats are the last team that would do a Cruz deal. They don't over pay, ask Welker, or big FA signings. Really? Because they were in the process of trying to snatch Emmanuel Sanders, a restricted free agent from the Pittsburgh Steelers (and they still might have interest) prior to overpaying Danny Amendola in a joke contract and letting arguably the NFL's best slot receiver go to a conference rival that's going to be competing against you deep into the season for about the same price. Then, they decided to reward Talib with a 1 year 5 million contract, which is almost as bad as our Corey Webster contract. I think the A. the Patriots are a team that would have actually been likely to go after Cruz, had they been more patient and B. their offseason has been a train wreck so far, in overpaying AND in signing risky and questionable players. But historically, you have a point about them building through the draft. They also are known to stockpile picks and make deals. Cruz for the 29th pick is a complete steal. Cruz at a Welker-style deal is also a complete steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 From Today's Post. Looks like the Giants are most concerned about the rams right now...but at least it looks like the market price is more in line with what we've been saying in this thread. Just hope Victor agrees! Also sounds like we're hoping he gives us a little home town discount. Again, I hope Victor is feeling tha same warm & fuzzy... http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/big_blue_bracing_for_offer_to_wr_JRx41LVTmX7QDyFVHCt3NM Giants bracing for offer to WR Cruz By BART HUBBUCH Last Updated: 10:07 AM, March 18, 2013 Posted: 1:43 AM, March 18, 2013 Giants Blog PHOENIX — The Giants don’t think they’re out of the woods just yet when it comes to losing Victor Cruz. In fact, Big Blue co-owner Steve Tisch said yesterday the team is bracing itself for what he considers a “probable” offer from another club for the Pro Bowl restricted free agent wide receiver. “Nervous? I’m anxious,” Tisch said of a possible bid for Cruz’s services. “It’s the reality of this period in free agency. Is it likely [an offer will come]? Probably. Then we’re going to have to deal with it. But we’re not avoiding that possibility. We’ll address the reality of it when it happens.” A bid for Cruz’s services wouldn’t come cheap, considering the Giants recently put a first-round tender on him (meaning a team would have to surrender its 2013 first-round draft pick to sign Cruz). It won’t be the Colts, who were ruled out yesterday by their owner, Jim Irsay. But the Giants still have to watch out for the Rams, who recently lost Danny Amendola and have a spare first-round pick in this year’s draft. Cruz also would likely command at least $6 million a year, based on the recent contracts signed by fellow slot receivers Wes Welker and Amendola, although Tisch said he expects Cruz will end up topping them. “I think Victor is going to get a little higher than that,” Tisch said of the $6 million average for Welker and Amendola. While $6 million-plus per year would seem to be too rich for the cap-strapped Giants’ blood, Tisch said the team hopes Cruz’s desire to stay with what essentially is his hometown team will trump pure dollars. “I think Victor, emotionally, would like to stay with the Giants,” Tisch said. “I don’t know if that’s a tangible factor. I hope it is, when you make a decision like this. We’re going to go as far as we can go to keep him on the team.” Tisch also is encouraged by Cruz’s recent hiring of super agent Tom Condon, who represents Giants quarterback Eli Manning and has a history of good dealings with Big Blue. “I think his agent change is a positive,” Tisch said. “We have the utmost respect for Tom Condon.” bhubbuch@nypost.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 shit that's a nice pick if it is indeed the rams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 shit that's a nice pick if it is indeed the rams Right, it's a top 20 pick, #16 overall I think? This is an expensive proposition for the Rams. I'd be surprised if they offer him a lucrative deal, one which the giants can't match, PLUS such a high draft choice Still, we'll see. #16 overall would be nice compensation if we aren't able to keep Cruz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 http://www.fannation...ign-victor-cruz 01:40 PM ET 03.16 | There are two teams with two first-round picks in the 2013 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings and the St. Louis Rams. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, neither are expected to sign Giants restricted free agent Victor Cruz to an offer sheet. Cruz received a first-round tender offer from the Giants in restricted free agency, meaning a team would have to give the Giants their first-round pick in the 2013 draft if they signed him to a contract and the Giants did not match. The first-round tender will give Cruz $2.879 million for the 2013 season with the Giants. The rams also signed Long and Jared Cook to big deals, I wonder if they have money to offer Cruz another big deal. http://nfltraderumors.co/nfl-team-cap-space-6/ Before Free Agency, this site indicates they have approximately 11 million in cap room BEFORE all their other signings. This indicates that they can't really front load a deal, or significantly outbid the giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 yeah 16th, i just dont see why they'd pay cruz and give up the pick when they could've paid amendola a lot less than cruz will command. maybe they were just fed up with him missing games or amendola just wanted out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindgreed1 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think he's going anywhere. He just signed Condon as his agent. Condon will make sure he's a Giant for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think he's going anywhere. He just signed Condon as his agent. Condon will make sure he's a Giant for years to come. He'd better. We need Cruz badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think he's going anywhere. He just signed Condon as his agent. Condon will make sure he's a Giant for years to come. Agreed. I still put the chances of another team offering Cruz a deal we can't match at 15%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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