Official petition to draft Michael Penix Jr thread

[Treehugger]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:10 AM, Herc said:

Yeah def not.  Historical odds are 2-3 of these guys bust 

So Maye and which other two?

[Virginia Giant]

26 minutes ago, Treehugger said:

So Maye and which other two?

Got a bad feeling about Caleb just because it’s the bears. 

[Herc]

I’d guess Daniels bc of his frame but that’s more of an injury expectation.  

[Sephiroth]

Nix, and Penis.

 

That's all of em, right?

[Iceman_NYG]

6 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Nix, and Penis.

 

That's all of em, right?

Bonix, Penix, Obelix - fucking Gauls

[Virginia Giant]

My QB rankings (first round guys)

Penix - he’s the best talent in the draft.  Injury concerns but he is the total package pocket passer qb

 Williams - not so much because I have a lot of knowledge about him, I didn’t watch much. Probably giving in to popular opinion a little. 
 

Daniels - immense talent throwing and running.  Hits deep balls like nobody else. 
 

Nix - lots of starting experience, lots of success and consistency. Not the highest ceiling, but one of the highest floors. 
 

McCarthy - has talent. Some guys succeed or fail based on the offense they are in. I think he did exactly what was asked but has potential for more. 
 

Maye - just gut feeling. Again didn’t watch much and probably just the school he plays for impacting my gut. 

[Sephiroth]

3 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

My QB rankings (first round guys)

Penix - he’s the best talent in the draft.  Injury concerns but he is the total package pocket passer qb

 Williams - not so much because I have a lot of knowledge about him, I didn’t watch much. Probably giving in to popular opinion a little. 
 

Daniels - immense talent throwing and running.  Hits deep balls like nobody else. 
 

Nix - lots of starting experience, lots of success and consistency. Not the highest ceiling, but one of the highest floors. 
 

McCarthy - has talent. Some guys succeed or fail based on the offense they are in. I think he did exactly what was asked but has potential for more. 
 

Maye - just gut feeling. Again didn’t watch much and probably just the school he plays for impacting my gut. 

My list is this: 

Williams - I think he's the real deal but "it's the Bears" also rings true.  In the right situation he can be a really special one though.  Holds the ball too long but does generally read the field well.  Those WRs sucked. 

Maye - not sure what everyone else is seeing negatively but glad they're seeing it because I hope he falls to us.  He's going to need some seasoning and the NC offense isn't really an NFL offense but he's big, athletic, has a big arm, reads the field well, and made plays behind a pathetic Tarheels O-line.   I see him as a cross between Justin Herbert and Brett Favre in the pros. 

Penix - I think he's the third best QB in the draft and would be a top-5 pick without the injury concerns.  But the injury concerns are huge.  Also a lefty with a weird release. Reminds me of Phillip Rivers with the weird release a little bit. 

Daniels - looked awesome last year and was an unbelievable playmaker but who wouldn't look good throwing to that WR corps?  Does not read the middle of the field well at all. I think he's got real bust potential. He'll have a Michael Vick-type career. 

McCarthy - looks like a completely average QB, not sure where the hype is coming from.  Seems to have an incredible work ethic and "is a winner"  just like Tim Tebow.  If he's around in the second he's worth a draft pick but this top-5 talk is absolutely insane.  He's going to need a lot of work.  I see him as a Brock Purdy type;  if he's not in the perfect NFL office he's just OK. 

Nix - he looks pretty good but he's very old (only one year younger than Jones) and not a top-tier guy.  I think he can give you Matt Schaub-type production but he's not going to be a special player. 

 

I think I'd like any of them except MCCarthy on the team, unless he somehow is still there in the 2nd or bottom of the 1st. 

[gmenroc]

3 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

My list is this: 

Williams - I think he's the real deal but "it's the Bears" also rings true.  In the right situation he can be a really special one though.  Holds the ball too long but does generally read the field well.  Those WRs sucked. 

Maye - not sure what everyone else is seeing negatively but glad they're seeing it because I hope he falls to us.  He's going to need some seasoning and the NC offense isn't really an NFL offense but he's big, athletic, has a big arm, reads the field well, and made plays behind a pathetic Tarheels O-line.   I see him as a cross between Justin Herbert and Brett Favre in the pros. 

Penix - I think he's the third best QB in the draft and would be a top-5 pick without the injury concerns.  But the injury concerns are huge.  Also a lefty with a weird release. Reminds me of Phillip Rivers with the weird release a little bit. 

Daniels - looked awesome last year and was an unbelievable playmaker but who wouldn't look good throwing to that WR corps?  Does not read the middle of the field well at all. I think he's got real bust potential. He'll have a Michael Vick-type career. 

McCarthy - looks like a completely average QB, not sure where the hype is coming from.  Seems to have an incredible work ethic and "is a winner"  just like Tim Tebow.  If he's around in the second he's worth a draft pick but this top-5 talk is absolutely insane.  He's going to need a lot of work.  I see him as a Brock Purdy type;  if he's not in the perfect NFL office he's just OK. 

Nix - he looks pretty good but he's very old (only one year younger than Jones) and not a top-tier guy.  I think he can give you Matt Schaub-type production but he's not going to be a special player. 

 

I think I'd like any of them except MCCarthy on the team, unless he somehow is still there in the 2nd or bottom of the 1st. 

I would still put Daniels above Penix due to injury concerns alone on Penix...but otherwise agree.  I have never seen what everyone else seems to see in McCarthy and like you, and Tiki apparently, don't want him as a Giant.

[Virginia Giant]

5 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

My list is this: 

Williams - I think he's the real deal but "it's the Bears" also rings true.  In the right situation he can be a really special one though.  Holds the ball too long but does generally read the field well.  Those WRs sucked. 

Maye - not sure what everyone else is seeing negatively but glad they're seeing it because I hope he falls to us.  He's going to need some seasoning and the NC offense isn't really an NFL offense but he's big, athletic, has a big arm, reads the field well, and made plays behind a pathetic Tarheels O-line.   I see him as a cross between Justin Herbert and Brett Favre in the pros. 

Penix - I think he's the third best QB in the draft and would be a top-5 pick without the injury concerns.  But the injury concerns are huge.  Also a lefty with a weird release. Reminds me of Phillip Rivers with the weird release a little bit. 

Daniels - looked awesome last year and was an unbelievable playmaker but who wouldn't look good throwing to that WR corps?  Does not read the middle of the field well at all. I think he's got real bust potential. He'll have a Michael Vick-type career. 

McCarthy - looks like a completely average QB, not sure where the hype is coming from.  Seems to have an incredible work ethic and "is a winner"  just like Tim Tebow.  If he's around in the second he's worth a draft pick but this top-5 talk is absolutely insane.  He's going to need a lot of work.  I see him as a Brock Purdy type;  if he's not in the perfect NFL office he's just OK. 

Nix - he looks pretty good but he's very old (only one year younger than Jones) and not a top-tier guy.  I think he can give you Matt Schaub-type production but he's not going to be a special player. 

 

I think I'd like any of them except MCCarthy on the team, unless he somehow is still there in the 2nd or bottom of the 1st. 

Yeah I would be least happy with McCarthy. But I’d be fine with any one of them really. 

[Treehugger]

"Maye’s EPA/dropback on plays when he goes outside of the pocket this past year wasn’t great. At minus-0.02, he ranks sixth in this class and is the only QB (of the 6in 1st round contention) on the wrong side of zero. I’m not sure if this is a product of a mediocre supporting cast, but it doesn’t pass the eye test for me considering Maye’s athletic prowess. You don’t need to live outside of the pocket in the NFL, but if you’re not going to have success when you’re forced to move off your spot, I don’t like your chances long-term."

That, and watching him absolutely sail some passes during his Pro Day, missing the receiver by a mile. Those are unpressured, uncovered, rehearsed throws. I don't know how a 63% completion rate gets you #2 over-all hype.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

14 hours ago, Treehugger said:

"Maye’s EPA/dropback on plays when he goes outside of the pocket this past year wasn’t great. At minus-0.02, he ranks sixth in this class and is the only QB (of the 6in 1st round contention) on the wrong side of zero. I’m not sure if this is a product of a mediocre supporting cast, but it doesn’t pass the eye test for me considering Maye’s athletic prowess. You don’t need to live outside of the pocket in the NFL, but if you’re not going to have success when you’re forced to move off your spot, I don’t like your chances long-term."

That, and watching him absolutely sail some passes during his Pro Day, missing the receiver by a mile. Those are unpressured, uncovered, rehearsed throws. I don't know how a 63% completion rate gets you #2 over-all hype.

Yep the days of the pocket passer are so done right now.  It could still be done around the early 2010s but that chicken is done now.  Guys have to move and move well to avoid pressure.  They also have to be able to read into third options and improvise.  Whether that is running and/or preferably throwing it to the hot receiver.  I would prefer getting the best available athlete and getting a QB in the late first round and/or high second round.  None of these guys are can't miss to me.  Seen too much football to be spurned at the altar for a lot of these cats.

[CrazedDogs]

15 hours ago, Treehugger said:

That, and watching him absolutely sail some passes during his Pro Day, missing the receiver by a mile. Those are unpressured, uncovered, rehearsed throws. I don't know how a 63% completion rate gets you #2 over-all hype.

It’s the highlight throws that get some folks fired up for Maye. His best throws are the best in this class…. supposedly. 

He had some ridiculous misfires in real games too, so I’m uneasy about the guy.

Of course, I thought Josh Allen was Jamarcus Russell with better conditioning, so what do I know.

[BlueInCanada]

16 hours ago, Treehugger said:

"Maye’s EPA/dropback on plays when he goes outside of the pocket this past year wasn’t great. At minus-0.02, he ranks sixth in this class and is the only QB (of the 6in 1st round contention) on the wrong side of zero. I’m not sure if this is a product of a mediocre supporting cast, but it doesn’t pass the eye test for me considering Maye’s athletic prowess. You don’t need to live outside of the pocket in the NFL, but if you’re not going to have success when you’re forced to move off your spot, I don’t like your chances long-term."

That, and watching him absolutely sail some passes during his Pro Day, missing the receiver by a mile. Those are unpressured, uncovered, rehearsed throws. I don't know how a 63% completion rate gets you #2 over-all hype.

As I've said QBs are now a "FUCK IT" take the risk position.

Guys who would normally be second round/third round picks are now going high in the top 10.

Teams need a QB to compete with Mahomes magic, because you arent going to win against Mahomes with even a good QB.

[BlueInCanada]

Look at Penix, if he played any other position in the NFL.

RB, WR, CB, Dline, Oline and he was coming out college after three season ending injuries and one good/great year.

A team wouldn't even think about touching him till day three.

The guy might end up top 5 lol

[gmenroc]

Penix is gonna go top 15 because there are more QB needy teams who aren't gonna be able to get the top 3.

Giants, Raiders, Vikings, Broncos and maybe even the Cowboys are all gonna be looking hard at McCarthy, Penix, Nix.

I think I am on the trade back to 11-15 range and just take Penix...but the injuries scare the shit outta me

[BronxRik]

41 minutes ago, gmenroc said:

Penix is gonna go top 15 because there are more QB needy teams who aren't gonna be able to get the top 3.

Giants, Raiders, Vikings, Broncos and maybe even the Cowboys are all gonna be looking hard at McCarthy, Penix, Nix.

I think I am on the trade back to 11-15 range and just take Penix...but the injuries scare the shit outta me

In that case, just wait it out and take Pratt or Rattler in the 3rd. 

[Virginia Giant]

1 minute ago, BronxRik said:

In that case, just wait it out and take Pratt or Rattler in the 3rd. 

Yeah because that's exactly the fucking same. 

[Virginia Giant]

And if the Giants don't draft one of the 6 rd 1 QBs, they should definitely not draft a qb in the 3rd or beyond.  You can get a real player in rounds 3-5 on a roster full of holes instead of wasting it on Davis Webb Jr.  All that's going to do is drive speculation that doesn't really exist in reality.  If they don't at least end up with Nix, just ride with DJ and try again next year. 

[Iceman_NYG]

4 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

And if the Giants don't draft one of the 6 rd 1 QBs, they should definitely not draft a qb in the 3rd or beyond.  You can get a real player in rounds 3-5 on a roster full of holes instead of wasting it on Davis Webb Jr.  All that's going to do is drive speculation that doesn't really exist in reality.  If they don't at least end up with Nix, just ride with DJ and try again next year. 

This is what I feel is going to happen - and the reason why got Drew Lock on board. If Jones balls out and has a stellar season - well, thats a win - if not cut bait, we would be picking high again and do everything in your power to get the top QBs in next year's draft.

[GorillaNJ]

9 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

And if the Giants don't draft one of the 6 rd 1 QBs, they should definitely not draft a qb in the 3rd or beyond.  You can get a real player in rounds 3-5 on a roster full of holes instead of wasting it on Davis Webb Jr.  All that's going to do is drive speculation that doesn't really exist in reality.  If they don't at least end up with Nix, just ride with DJ and try again next year. 

VG I can't follow this logic at all.    You can get a real player, a real impact player with the 6th pick in the draft instead of the 5th QB to come off the board.  You are much less likely to land a coveted player come round 3, is it that big of a loss to pick a back-up QB with potential upside as opposed to drafting a 6th DB or lineman?  

[Virginia Giant]

25 minutes ago, GorillaNJ said:

VG I can't follow this logic at all.    You can get a real player, a real impact player with the 6th pick in the draft instead of the 5th QB to come off the board.  You are much less likely to land a coveted player come round 3, is it that big of a loss to pick a back-up QB with potential upside as opposed to drafting a 6th DB or lineman?  

We all know any of the top 5 or 6 QBs in this draft, or any of the normal first round QBs in any draft, are as likely as any other to go to the moon or be a bust. For every sure thing Andrew Luck there is a Josh Rosen. And for every Josh Allen (extreme talent but huge question marks) there’s a Ryan Leaf.   It’s a crap shoot and almost. But hitting on a qb in the first round is way more frequent than hitting on one outside of the first round. 
 

what I mean is. If you’re looking for a franchise qb to take over within a year, you take one of the guys that have a first round grade. If you’re a perennial winner with a great coaching staff, yeah you can draft a 3rd rd qb as a project and coach in up with the expectation he will be 3-4 years away or end up a competent backup. 
 

but getting a contributing player in rd 3-5 is far more likely. Maybe not a Justin tuck always, but a Julian love or even Wayne Gallman. 
 

missing on a first rd qb sets the franchise back. No question. But drafting a project qb in the 3rd rd when you have a bad roster and a desperate need for a qb does not advance the franchise any. Daniel Jones is probably a better qb than Spencer Rattler for the next few seasons at least. And we can’t address the remaining holes in the team with his full contract on the books while getting mediocre play. 
 

The two choices are go for it this year and get one of the guys they like in the first. Or trade back to 11 or 12 to get picks to make a run at the best prospects next year. Is the rest of the drafts to build the roster. 

[Virginia Giant]

But if they trade back to 11 or 12 they might still get Penix and that’s a win ❤️

[GorillaNJ]

2 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

We all know any of the top 5 or 6 QBs in this draft, or any of the normal first round QBs in any draft, are as likely as any other to go to the moon or be a bust. For every sure thing Andrew Luck there is a Josh Rosen. And for every Josh Allen (extreme talent but huge question marks) there’s a Ryan Leaf.   It’s a crap shoot and almost. But hitting on a qb in the first round is way more frequent than hitting on one outside of the first round. 
 

what I mean is. If you’re looking for a franchise qb to take over within a year, you take one of the guys that have a first round grade. If you’re a perennial winner with a great coaching staff, yeah you can draft a 3rd rd qb as a project and coach in up with the expectation he will be 3-4 years away or end up a competent backup. 
 

but getting a contributing player in rd 3-5 is far more likely. Maybe not a Justin tuck always, but a Julian love or even Wayne Gallman. 
 

missing on a first rd qb sets the franchise back. No question. But drafting a project qb in the 3rd rd when you have a bad roster and a desperate need for a qb does not advance the franchise any. Daniel Jones is probably a better qb than Spencer Rattler for the next few seasons at least. And we can’t address the remaining holes in the team with his full contract on the books while getting mediocre play. 
 

The two choices are go for it this year and get one of the guys they like in the first. Or trade back to 11 or 12 to get picks to make a run at the best prospects next year. Is the rest of the drafts to build the roster. 

Hitting on a QB in the first round is like you said a crap shoot, and having the 6th pick and potentially having 5 QBs off the board at the time you are effectively turning your 6th pick into a second or third round pick.

 

[Mr. P]

53 minutes ago, GorillaNJ said:

Hitting on a QB in the first round is like you said a crap shoot, and having the 6th pick and potentially having 5 QBs off the board at the time you are effectively turning your 6th pick into a second or third round pick.

 

 

Unless the team picking thinks the guy is worth the pick.   

[GorillaNJ]

24 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

 

Unless the team picking thinks the guy is worth the pick.   

Next Thursday can't get here soon enough