Time to start talking QBs

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

9 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

 

I don't want to see the Giants loose we've had the worst record in the NFL the last 10 years. 

But I also don't want them to miss a chance to draft a franchise changing player.  

Imagine if in 2003 we won one or two more games and slid into the 8-12 pick range, we'd never have Eli. 

This big time.  I have seen enough losing teams and I could care less about winning in a lost season.  I took in my wings not emerge until 1981 after the debacle of The Fumble in 1978.  We have to live with the bad to get to the good.

[BronxRik]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

Yeah but it would of cost more and potentially Eli not winning any SBs.

We traded for Eli and had to give up the #4 pick and up  firsts, plus other picks. 

Imagine what the deal would of been having to trade the #8 or 9 pick instead.

It's all hindsight but I'd much rather only have to pick a new QB or WR or who ever they want instead of having to trade for them when we already vastly lack talent on the roster. 

 

Yeah, I get that. In trading from 8-12 we'd give up more and who knows how that affects the future. Maybe no Manningham, no Tyree, etc. I was just sayin' they wanted Eli and they'd do anything to get him. 

[mastershake]

There seems to be a cadre of giant fans on Facebook, Twitter, etc who seem to believe that there's no way to address the OL, unless we draft an OL with our top 5 pick in the 1st round. They're frothing at the mouth and crying about the idea of drafting a QB with our top 5 pick, and acting like the OL will be bad again specifically because we might not use that pick on an OL.

Apparently, they're not aware of things called free agency, rounds 2-7 of the draft, trades, etc.

I mean, it's fine if you want that pick to be OL...I get it and that's perfectly fair, but the idea that the integrity of our OL hinges on one draft pick in next years draft is a fucking joke.

[gmenroc]

I don't see us out-losing to the Panthers...so say at best we are at #2.

So Bears are gonna pick 1st given they have Carolina's pick.  They either give up on fields or trade back.  As good as Harrison is, you gonna pair him with Fields as a 1st overall?  Gotta believe a QB is going 1st...whether to Bears or someone else...and it is gonna be the USC QB...Williams, I think it is.

So assuming we don't fuck this up by winning a game we should not be interested in winning but due to some idiotic pride bullshit we probably will...but I digress...if picking 2nd...we either take Maye..let him ride bench for year and let him takeover after Jones or when Jones is inevitably injured.  Or, we take the best OT and move Neal inside for a test run in 2024.  Or, we take Harrison at WR to pair with Jones for a year.  Or we trade back and let someone take Maye.

Personally, today, I am in either the trade back camp and pick up Penix or Harrison...but that's only if we make big plays in free agency on the offensive line.

[mastershake]

6 minutes ago, gmenroc said:

I don't see us out-losing to the Panthers...so say at best we are at #2.

So Bears are gonna pick 1st given they have Carolina's pick.  They either give up on fields or trade back.  As good as Harrison is, you gonna pair him with Fields as a 1st overall?  Gotta believe a QB is going 1st...whether to Bears or someone else...and it is gonna be the USC QB...Williams, I think it is.

So assuming we don't fuck this up by winning a game we should not be interested in winning but due to some idiotic pride bullshit we probably will...but I digress...if picking 2nd...we either take Maye..let him ride bench for year and let him takeover after Jones or when Jones is inevitably injured.  Or, we take the best OT and move Neal inside for a test run in 2024.  Or, we take Harrison at WR to pair with Jones for a year.  Or we trade back and let someone take Maye.

Personally, today, I am in either the trade back camp and pick up Penix or Harrison...but that's only if we make big plays in free agency on the offensive line.

Also in either of these scenarios, I think we also need to bring in a veteran QB like Minshew or Mayfield, since DJ likely won't be ready until the start of November 2024 at best.

[GorillaNJ]

8 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Also in either of these scenarios, I think we also need to bring in a veteran QB like Minshew or Mayfield, since DJ likely won't be ready until the start of November 2024 at best.

That is the shit of it...   would be great to have a top pick QB sit behind Jones for a couple weeks and then he be the Vet backup.   So more $ will have to go to the QB spot because Tommy TD can't be our fall back

[mastershake]

3 hours ago, GorillaNJ said:

That is the shit of it...   would be great to have a top pick QB sit behind Jones for a couple weeks and then he be the Vet backup.   So more $ will have to go to the QB spot because Tommy TD can't be our fall back

Yes, and to me this is all the more reason to definitely NOT resign Barkley, assuming Barkley's cap hit will be like $8M plus. Give me a gamer like Minshew for 2 years $12M, or 3 years $20M. Even if we draft a QB, you then have a solid backup and plan B in case the draft pick doesn't work out. Edit: Take a RB in round 4, and/or bring in a cheap vet RB like D'Onta Foreman, Edwards-Helaire, Damien Harris, Cam Akers, etc. We won't need to be spending any more than $6M or $7M (in total, for all RBs) at the RB position.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

The RB position has evolved and this is not college.  The days of the 10-12 million dollar RB are over.  Invest that money in a QB, OL, WR and/or TE.  The backfield can be had for cheap these days.  Business above sympathy/empathy... get something for Barkley if you can and lets move on.  DJ and Taylor should be riding pine and invest in another college QB and bring in a veteran for stop gap.  The one read and run stuff has to stop before someone gets put into a wheelchair.

[mastershake]

10 minutes ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

The RB position has evolved and this is not college.  The days of the 10-12 million dollar RB are over.  Invest that money in a QB, OL, WR and/or TE.  The backfield can be had for cheap these days.  Business above sympathy/empathy... get something for Barkley if you can and lets move on.  DJ and Taylor should be riding pine and invest in another college QB and bring in a veteran for stop gap.  The one read and run stuff has to stop before someone gets put into a wheelchair.

I personally don't want Tyrod as the backup. He's been far too injury prone to be reliable, and for that same money is better spent on Minshew.

[BlueInCanada]

17 minutes ago, mastershake said:

I personally don't want Tyrod as the backup. He's been far too injury prone to be reliable, and for that same money is better spent on Minshew.

Minshew is playing himself into some starting money though.

He may cost 10+ million a year. 

[mastershake]

2 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Minshew is playing himself into some starting money though.

He may cost 10+ million a year. 

You might be right, especially with the QB crisis in the NFL.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

8 hours ago, mastershake said:

I personally don't want Tyrod as the backup. He's been far too injury prone to be reliable, and for that same money is better spent on Minshew.

Just for next year... he is worth a game or two... he is resigned to being a back up. DJ still thinks he is starter material.  I just want a doorstop... bring up a rookie to excel in a year or two.

[gmenroc]

From the way Barkley is talking lately, I get the sense he isn't coming back anyhow.

I kinda get the sense that this season was a half hearted, let's go for it all season.  I feel they were planning on blowing it up, but then we overachieved, record-wise at least, last year and they figured on running it back with Barkley and Jones...but ignoring critical positions.

Now with some cap space, a top 3 or 4 pick...it is that time.

[mastershake]

Barkley owes it to himself to go off and sign with a competent organization, who believes in offensive lines, and can utilize him properly. Ravens, Chiefs, Bengals, etc.

[gmenroc]

Watch him go to the Ravens and roll with OBJ...I would almost want them to win the SB just to throw it in the face of Giants ownership what coulda been.

[Sephiroth]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:44 AM, mastershake said:

There seems to be a cadre of giant fans on Facebook, Twitter, etc who seem to believe that there's no way to address the OL, unless we draft an OL with our top 5 pick in the 1st round. They're frothing at the mouth and crying about the idea of drafting a QB with our top 5 pick, and acting like the OL will be bad again specifically because we might not use that pick on an OL.

Apparently, they're not aware of things called free agency, rounds 2-7 of the draft, trades, etc.

I mean, it's fine if you want that pick to be OL...I get it and that's perfectly fair, but the idea that the integrity of our OL hinges on one draft pick in next years draft is a fucking joke.

You just have to not be fucking stupid.

Three years ago I was pounding the table for Trey Smith, but we drafted Gary Brightwell instead.

Two years ago it was Zach Tom and Jamaree Slayer,. but we took Dane Belton and Marcus McKethan.

Those are 3 of the best young linemen in the league, all 4th round or later.

This really isn't hard to figure out, but like I always say these GMs and HCs overthink shit and end up outsmarting themselves. Just take the players that are athletic and good, not the guy with "untapped potential." 

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I totally despise projects and untapped potential.  It says BUST all over it.  Better to have good than bet on having great, while having shit.  These are things you learn as a big boss Seph.  I was always okay with fair to good, because I could work them up to good at least.  I did not sit around awaiting for greatness to fall into my lap like a ripe melon.  In my experience that rarely if ever happens.

[UK-Giantsfan]

Not sure that we want Drake Maye as our number 1 pick in the draft.

Watched the UNC v Clemson game yesterday and he reminded me very much of a shaky,  less experienced Daniel Jones. Good with his legs but made some poor throws and decisions and a bad pick at the end.

yikes

( I say keep Jones for at least one more year and put all your efforts and draft capital into sorting the fucking O line ) 

[BlueInCanada]

Time to stop talking about QBs. 

Doubt we loose to the Pats.

Pick 6 here we come. 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Jesus... just embrace the tank... just too much already... just lose out.  Pull starters if you have to,

[CrazedDogs]

13 minutes ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

Jesus... just embrace the tank... just too much already... just lose out.  Pull starters if you have to,

I don’t think we should pull the starter if the starter is part of our plans, because he needs the reps too.

but I’d like to see less Xavier McKinney and more of the backups like Belton and Owens.

[gmenroc]

1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

I don’t think we should pull the starter if the starter is part of our plans, because he needs the reps too.

but I’d like to see less Xavier McKinney and more of the backups like Belton and Owens.

I would showcase the shit out of McKinney to try and boost any sort of compensatory pick we may be awarded after his departure.

[BlueInCanada]

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

2 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I don’t think we should pull the starter if the starter is part of our plans, because he needs the reps too.

but I’d like to see less Xavier McKinney and more of the backups like Belton and Owens.

I feel this... for sure.

[mastershake]

12 hours ago, UK-Giantsfan said:

Not sure that we want Drake Maye as our number 1 pick in the draft.

Watched the UNC v Clemson game yesterday and he reminded me very much of a shaky,  less experienced Daniel Jones. Good with his legs but made some poor throws and decisions and a bad pick at the end.

yikes

( I say keep Jones for at least one more year and put all your efforts and draft capital into sorting the fucking O line ) 

I second this. I'll take Bo Nix with the #7th pick in the draft over Maye.