Welcome to the NY Football Giants

[Chuck Wagon]

20 hours ago, mastershake said:

Nice. I hope so.

The good thing at least is he won't have to cover Robinson lol.

Yeah...that first quarter of the Critus was brutal.

That is what we call the Keystone Cops phase of the game here in Iowa. We dedicate at least one complete quarter of every big game to having our guys run into each other as our coaches find all the stuff out they missed in film session.

Wildcats had our DC totally out schemed. Once they decided to run a zone....and not both a zone and man to man at the same time (apparently) it settled down. If you look at that play half the backfield was doing zone and half was doing Man.....all necessary for the Iowa tried and true bowl game strategy of spotting your opponent 7 and then loosing 20 - 17.

Fucking Hawkeyes hate me.

C. Wagon  

 

[mastershake]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Yeah...that first quarter of the Critus was brutal.

That is what we call the Keystone Cops phase of the game here in Iowa. We dedicate at least one complete quarter of every big game to having our guys run into each other as our coaches find all the stuff out they missed in film session.

Wildcats had our DC totally out schemed. Once they decided to run a zone....and not both a zone and man to man at the same time (apparently) it settled down. If you look at that play half the backfield was doing zone and half was doing Man.....all necessary for the Iowa tried and true bowl game strategy of spotting your opponent 7 and then loosing 20 - 17.

Fucking Hawkeyes hate me.

C. Wagon  

 

Yeah it was an interesting game. Also, another thing I noticed is this Kentucky QB Will Levis; this guy can sling it all over the field. I looked him up subsequently and found that he's considered a potential 1st rounder in the 2023 NFL draft. Kentucky also runs a decent amount of pro sets, which makes him even more intriguing. Possible Giant in the future, maybe? I think he looks better than Bryce Young or CJ Stroud, if you ask me.

[Chuck Wagon]

1 minute ago, mastershake said:

Yeah it was an interesting game. Also, another thing I noticed is this Kentucky QB Will Levis; this guy can sling it all over the field. I looked him up subsequently and found that he's considered a potential 1st rounder in the 2023 NFL draft.

Big arm. ..and athletic. The type of guy we havent had at Iowa since Brad Banks...cause that would fuck up Frentz's ..."lets make the defense do it all" plan.

C. Wagon

[Sephiroth]

4 hours ago, boohyah said:

 

Well we expect them to be quality, they may end being the biggest disappointments. Hopefully not.  

And with all due respect, you and I and anyone hasn't seen any of the guys on a pro field to determine anything, but what we do know is that we saw the guys currently on the roster last year. And if some of these rooks can walk straight they are better than the shit we saw last year.

Nobody has seen them on the field, but there is college tape.   I'm not someone who decides he likes a player based on a write up, I look at their film and decide for myself (look at how much I hated the guys in the "not seeing it" thread). 

3 hours ago, Herc said:

I think once you get Into the later rounds it becomes a lot more difficult to predict other teams big boards and make value picks.  All you have to go by is media big boards/agents and those are based on a mix of unqualified opinions and disinfo provided by teams, plus most don’t go past the first round anyway.  Now throw all the trades in and it’s tough to say “I love Robinson here but I can get him in the third”when you don’t know who other teams like and which teams are going to pick between your picks.  Ideally you pick everyone in their perfect value spot but in such an unpredictable and difficult market the best you can reasonably shoot for is to identify people correctly and get good players on the team.  

This is true, but there were better players to be had IMO.  I'm not going to try and guess what other teams have other players rated as, but I do know how I rate the players and who I would have taken in our spots.  The "guys I would have liked" isn't hindsight, it's who I legit would have taken in those spots. 

[mastershake]

39 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Nobody has seen them on the field, but there is college tape.   I'm not someone who decides he likes a player based on a write up, I look at their film and decide for myself (look at how much I hated the guys in the "not seeing it" thread). 

This is true, but there were better players to be had IMO.  I'm not going to try and guess what other teams have other players rated as, but I do know how I rate the players and who I would have taken in our spots.  The "guys I would have liked" isn't hindsight, it's who I legit would have taken in those spots. 

I would have preferred some other guys too, but I'm not getting too upset about any of this because the only guy who was a real head scratcher in my view is CB Cordale Flott at #81 overall in the 3rd round. His ADP leading up to the draft was like #200.

I didn't even think we really needed a WR, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense given Slayton sucks, Shepherd is a walking IR ready to happen, and we don't know if Toney will be reliable.

Anything after round 4 is really nothing to get upset about in general too. They're all longshots at that point, or backups at most generally. Everyone wants a Tom Brady or Ahmad Bradshaw/David Diehl even but the fact is the vast vast majority of these players will be backups and/or won't even make a roster in the next few years. If 1 out of the 5 picks in rounds 5-7 make it as a starter on this team, that's just icing on the cake.

[Sephiroth]

52 minutes ago, mastershake said:

I would have preferred some other guys too, but I'm not getting too upset about any of this because the only guy who was a real head scratcher in my view is CB Cordale Flott at #81 overall in the 3rd round. His ADP leading up to the draft was like #200.

I didn't even think we really needed a WR, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense given Slayton sucks, Shepherd is a walking IR ready to happen, and we don't know if Toney will be reliable.

Anything after round 4 is really nothing to get upset about in general too. They're all longshots at that point, or backups at most generally. Everyone wants a Tom Brady or Ahmad Bradshaw/David Diehl even but the fact is the vast vast majority of these players will be backups and/or won't even make a roster in the next few years. If 1 out of the 5 picks in rounds 5-7 make it as a starter on this team, that's just icing on the cake.

Those are great points about the receivers;  we also don't know what we're getting out of Golladay, but you'd hope it's more than what we've gotten so far.  We do need a WR (or at least a pass catcher) but I don't know why you'd reach for a 5'8" guy when there's other, more proven, legit guys on the board. 

I know I may be overreacting, but honestly, this is a big alarm bells moment for me.  Schoen is going to be here for five years at least, but this is not a promising start, and this isn't how competitive teams are built.  If you take a look at Baltimore's draft in contrast to ours, you'll see what I mean; every pick is best player available, little to no reaches. That's how you build a quality football team, not by taking projected 5th and 6th round guys early in the draft;  you take the best guy there and if there's holes, you fill them with quality free agents. 

I have no patience to watch another five years of shitty Giants football.   

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

15 hours ago, boohyah said:

Bringing in 11 guys through the draft and covering nearly every position on the field is a damn good idea though. Since the bottom of this roster has about 20 guys who will likely be cut before the season starts, we are going to need everyone of these guys drafted. This team had no cap money and now a corner that he has little or no bargaining power for. From all angles, he's intent on building a team and the roster we have now is already  ahead of what walked off the field last year. 

I agree... my basement is 1977 as I have been watching the G men since 1968.  We had no one back in 1977 that was worth playing in the NFL other than Jennings the punter and Mendenhall the NT who was good.  Everyone else was worth Jack Shit.  This draft seems decent to me... even the WR guy... lets play a few downs and see what we have.  Even if just draft positions 1 and 2 work out we will be light years ahead.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

16 hours ago, Lughead said:

 

Robinson looks like he has heart... wants the ball and wants to get into the endzone.  More so than some of the guys we have here.  I would say I see more motivation in him than in a similar player Toney.  I would not have picked him here... but lets see what he can do.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

5 hours ago, Herc said:

I think once you get Into the later rounds it becomes a lot more difficult to predict other teams big boards and make value picks.  All you have to go by is media big boards/agents and those are based on a mix of unqualified opinions and disinfo provided by teams, plus most don’t go past the first round anyway.  Now throw all the trades in and it’s tough to say “I love Robinson here but I can get him in the third”when you don’t know who other teams like and which teams are going to pick between your picks.  Ideally you pick everyone in their perfect value spot but in such an unpredictable and difficult market the best you can reasonably shoot for is to identify people correctly and get good players on the team.  

This.... waiting may get you a hand job... it sure won't get you a blow job.  This is sort of crass but waiting will not get you anywhere.  L'audace... you have to have audacity and go for it.  If you fail at least you tried.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

46 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Those are great points about the receivers;  we also don't know what we're getting out of Golladay, but you'd hope it's more than what we've gotten so far.  We do need a WR (or at least a pass catcher) but I don't know why you'd reach for a 5'8" guy when there's other, more proven, legit guys on the board. 

I know I may be overreacting, but honestly, this is a big alarm bells moment for me.  Schoen is going to be here for five years at least, but this is not a promising start, and this isn't how competitive teams are built.  If you take a look at Baltimore's draft in contrast to ours, you'll see what I mean; every pick is best player available, little to no reaches. That's how you build a quality football team, not by taking projected 5th and 6th round guys early in the draft;  you take the best guy there and if there's holes, you fill them with quality free agents. 

I have no patience to watch another five years of shitty Giants football.   

 

I get you and it Seph.  Since 1968 I have seen four Superbowl wins... I would love to see two to three more.  No more garbage ball for the Giants.  After 2022 I want playoffs, playoffs and more playoffs.  Nods to Jim Fassel. 

[BlueInCanada]

56 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Those are great points about the receivers;  we also don't know what we're getting out of Golladay, but you'd hope it's more than what we've gotten so far.  We do need a WR (or at least a pass catcher) but I don't know why you'd reach for a 5'8" guy when there's other, more proven, legit guys on the board. 

I know I may be overreacting, but honestly, this is a big alarm bells moment for me.  Schoen is going to be here for five years at least, but this is not a promising start, and this isn't how competitive teams are built.  If you take a look at Baltimore's draft in contrast to ours, you'll see what I mean; every pick is best player available, little to no reaches. That's how you build a quality football team, not by taking projected 5th and 6th round guys early in the draft;  you take the best guy there and if there's holes, you fill them with quality free agents. 

I have no patience to watch another five years of shitty Giants football.   

 

Good teams have an advantage of drafting BPA, simply because they already have good players there to fill the holes on the roster, and typically can sign FA because of their cap situation.

The Giants couldn't really do either of these this year, due to lack of talent on the roster and the cap situation.

The drafted players I assume they can start day one due to scheme, and they had them highly rated because of it.

The Ravens have the advantage of sitting these guys on the bench and developing them, the Giants don't. 

[Nas]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Those are great points about the receivers;  we also don't know what we're getting out of Golladay, but you'd hope it's more than what we've gotten so far.  We do need a WR (or at least a pass catcher) but I don't know why you'd reach for a 5'8" guy when there's other, more proven, legit guys on the board. 

I know I may be overreacting, but honestly, this is a big alarm bells moment for me.  Schoen is going to be here for five years at least, but this is not a promising start, and this isn't how competitive teams are built.  If you take a look at Baltimore's draft in contrast to ours, you'll see what I mean; every pick is best player available, little to no reaches. That's how you build a quality football team, not by taking projected 5th and 6th round guys early in the draft;  you take the best guy there and if there's holes, you fill them with quality free agents. 

I have no patience to watch another five years of shitty Giants football.   

 

How big of a difference between 5 8” and 5 10”?

 

 I do think you’re overreacting when it comes to Wan’dale.   People tend to think height is always advantageous and rightfully so… THIS may very well be the exception.   Give me a Tyreek Hill over a Ramses Barden any day.   Let’s not discriminate because of height, the kid has the numbers/production.

[Sephiroth]

31 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Good teams have an advantage of drafting BPA, simply because they already have good players there to fill the holes on the roster, and typically can sign FA because of their cap situation.

The Giants couldn't really do either of these this year, due to lack of talent on the roster and the cap situation.

The drafted players I assume they can start day one due to scheme, and they had them highly rated because of it.

The Ravens have the advantage of sitting these guys on the bench and developing them, the Giants don't. 

Honestly, I think of it the exact opposite.  All teams should be drafting BPA, but especially bad teams;  you can stick them anywhere day one and get results.  Good teams have players that are already starting in some positions;  if anything, they're getting less out of BPA because there may be someone better in front of them. 

4 minutes ago, Nas said:

How big of a difference between 5 8” and 5 10”?

 

 I do think you’re overreacting when it comes to Wan’dale.   People tend to think height is always advantageous and rightfully so… THIS may very well be the exception.   Give me a Tyreek Hill over a Ramses Barden any day.   Let’s not discriminate because of height, the kid has the numbers/production.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a pretty good player.  I just think at the time there were much better players available, and we already have 2-3 starting caliber players at that position.  We have no starting TE, LG, LB, etc. right now;  why not draft one of those guys that were more highly rated and will come in and start day one? 

[Nas]

1 minute ago, Sephiroth said:

Honestly, I think of it the exact opposite.  All teams should be drafting BPA, but especially bad teams;  you can stick them anywhere day one and get results.  Good teams have players that are already starting in some positions;  if anything, they're getting less out of BPA because there may be someone better in front of them. 

Oh don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a pretty good player.  I just think at the time there were much better players available, and we already have 2-3 starting caliber players at that position.  We have no starting TE, LG, LB, etc. right now;  why not draft one of those guys that were more highly rated and will come in and start day one? 

Honestly it doesn’t look like Toney will be on this team for years to come… I hope he proves me wrong.

[CrazedDogs]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Those are great points about the receivers;  we also don't know what we're getting out of Golladay, but you'd hope it's more than what we've gotten so far.  We do need a WR (or at least a pass catcher) but I don't know why you'd reach for a 5'8" guy when there's other, more proven, legit guys on the board. 

I know I may be overreacting, but honestly, this is a big alarm bells moment for me.  Schoen is going to be here for five years at least, but this is not a promising start, and this isn't how competitive teams are built.  If you take a look at Baltimore's draft in contrast to ours, you'll see what I mean; every pick is best player available, little to no reaches. That's how you build a quality football team, not by taking projected 5th and 6th round guys early in the draft;  you take the best guy there and if there's holes, you fill them with quality free agents. 

I have no patience to watch another five years of shitty Giants football.   

 

The flip side of Baltimore's draft is it tended towards lower value positions. 

And I can't drag them for 'reaching' on anyone but Robinson. Once you get into the third round, and especially the fourth round, there's a gnat's ass between those guys and later round prospects. 

 

[BlueInCanada]

Also and I won't say this enough.

Both Neal and Thibs were rated #1/#2 on multiple draft boards.

How we ended up with both is beyond me lol  

Honestly if only these two guys develop into starters it will be a success. 

[Herc]

He might think he’s drafting bpa though

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

The flip side of Baltimore's draft is it tended towards lower value positions. 

And I can't drag them for 'reaching' on anyone but Robinson. Once you get into the third round, and especially the fourth round, there's a gnat's ass between those guys and later round prospects. 

 

I disagree. When there's guys in the third with a low first/high second round grade on them, you don't reach for a guy with a sixth-round grade instead. 

Honestly, the more I talk about this the worse I feel. I'm seriously considering bailing on the team. 

[CrazedDogs]

56 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I disagree. When there's guys in the third with a low first/high second round grade on them, you don't reach for a guy with a sixth-round grade instead. 

Honestly, the more I talk about this the worse I feel. I'm seriously considering bailing on the team. 

Yeah, but who's grades though?

[Tempest]

3 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I disagree. When there's guys in the third with a low first/high second round grade on them, you don't reach for a guy with a sixth-round grade instead. 

Honestly, the more I talk about this the worse I feel. I'm seriously considering bailing on the team. 

It's never to early to quit 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

6 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Also and I won't say this enough.

Both Neal and Thibs were rated #1/#2 on multiple draft boards.

How we ended up with both is beyond me lol  

Honestly if only these two guys develop into starters it will be a success. 

For sure... I am so happy with these guys that I want to wrap them in plastic...

[JayD]

11 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I disagree. When there's guys in the third with a low first/high second round grade on them, you don't reach for a guy with a sixth-round grade instead. 

Honestly, the more I talk about this the worse I feel. I'm seriously considering bailing on the team. 

No you’re not. This too shall pass brother. 
 

I guess they just don’t have those players rated as high as others did. Maybe, just maybe (crossing fingers) in two years this will look brilliant.