Fuck it trade for firsts.

[mastershake]

58 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

I was higher on Dean until I came to understand he was playing with like seven other first round talents on that Georgia D. I may be wrong about Dean, but there's a long history of interior linebackers who look like world beaters so long as they're playing without offensive linemen in their faces. 

Ehh...being surrounded by talent...that can be said for a lot of these players in these big time programs like Alabama, Georgia, etc. If he came to the Giants, he'd have Lawrence and Williams in front of him, among others.

[CrazedDogs]

6 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Ehh...being surrounded by talent...that can be said for a lot of these players in these big time programs like Alabama, Georgia, etc. If he came to the Giants, he'd have Lawrence and Williams in front of him, among others.

True. For me, I don't trust my eyes enough when it comes to college players in extremely 'easy' situations. Same thing I said with Baker Mayfield, when someone is playing in that stacked a situation it's hard to tell what we're looking at.

[mastershake]

3 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

True. For me, I don't trust my eyes enough when it comes to college players in extremely 'easy' situations. Same thing I said with Baker Mayfield, when someone is playing in that stacked a situation it's hard to tell what we're looking at.

Linebackers are a really tough evaluation. Tough to project how they'll do in the pros based on what they did in college. In many ways, it's one of the more challenging positions on defense where you literally need to know how to do everything.

[Herc]

NFL Draft 2022: What could the N.Y. Giants get if they trade down in the first round?

By Dan Duggan

Apr 18, 2022

It’s no secret that the New York Giants are open to trading back with one of their top-10 picks. That chatter started at the Senior Bowl and has continued throughout the pre-draft process.

The ideal scenario for the Giants would be dealing a pick to acquire a package that includes a 2023 first-rounder, which would give the team ammunition if it needs to move up for a quarterback in next year’s draft. The Giants would still have another pick — No. 5 or 7 — to add a premium prospect this year.

The hurdle will be finding a team willing to give up a haul to move up for one of the Giants’ picks. The Giants traded back from No. 11 to No. 20 last year (and added a 2022 first-rounder among other picks) because the Bears coveted Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields. The inevitable boosting of this year’s quarterback class has been good news for the Giants as potential trade partners have emerged.

The Panthers have a major hole at quarterback, so taking one with the sixth pick is a strong possibility. That makes the Giants’ fifth pick a valuable trade chip, as quarterback-needy teams will want to jump Carolina to secure their top target.

The Falcons (No. 8), Seahawks (No. 9), Saints (No. 16 and No. 19) and Steelers (No. 20) all lack a long-term answer at quarterback and could be in the market for one in the draft. The Saints don’t forecast as a desirable trading partner, however, since they dealt their 2023 first-round pick in a recent deal with the Eagles.

So what type of package could the Giants expect if a team wants to trade up? A look at past trades provides a guide for potential deals:

1. The Giants and Seahawks would have a clear precedent if they’re interested in swapping the fifth and ninth picks. In 2014, the Browns traded the No. 4 pick to the Bills for the ninth pick plus first- and fifth-round selections in the 2015 draft. Landing a future first-round pick would be a priority for the Giants, so a similar package would be appealing. The fourth pick obviously has more value than the fifth pick, but the Bills traded up for wide receiver Sammy Watkins. There’s often a quarterback tax applied in trades, so the Giants could push for a similar package if that’s the reason Seattle would be moving up.

Proposed trade: Giants get No. 9, a 2023 first-round pick and a 2023 fifth-round pick; Seahawks get No. 5

---

2. The 2014 Browns-Bills trade could also help shape a deal between the Giants and the Falcons. The Giants would have to give up more to get a future first-rounder, however, since the Falcons would only be moving up three spots instead of five. This would be particularly appealing for the Giants since the Falcons are in the early stages of a rebuild and figure to have a poor record this season, especially if they start a rookie at quarterback.

Proposed trade: Giants get No. 8, a 2023 first-round pick and a 2023 sixth-round pick; Falcons get No. 5 and a fifth-round pick (No. 147)

---

3. The only other recent trade of a pick in the five-to-seven range that netted a future first-rounder occurred last year. The Eagles traded the sixth pick and a fifth-rounder to the Dolphins in exchange for the 12th pick, a fourth-round pick and a 2022 first-rounder. It’s not easy to translate those trade terms to the potential suitors for the Giants’ picks since those teams aren’t in the same range. And again, the Saints don’t have a 2023 first-round pick, so they aren’t a desirable partner. If the Giants are willing to drop all the way to No. 20 to deal with the Steelers, the haul would need to be substantial.

Proposed trade: Giants get No. 20, a second-round pick (No. 52), a 2023 first-round pick and a 2023 fourth-round pick; Steelers get No. 5

---

4. This last proposal is a departure from the quarterback sweepstakes. But it has to at least be a consideration that new Giants general manager Joe Schoen could do business with former boss Brandon Beane in Buffalo. The Bills have gone all-in this offseason in an attempt to get over the hump as Super Bowl contenders. Beane has aggressively traded up in the past when he loves a prospect, so it can’t be ruled out that he’ll take a big swing in this draft.

It would take a monster haul for the Giants to drop so far in the first round, but adding multiple early 2023 picks would help Schoen build a war chest for the future. Of course, the downside is those picks would likely be late in the round since the Bills will be one of the top teams in the league. But this is a wild-card scenario to at least consider.

Proposed trade: Giants get No. 25, a second-round pick (No. 57), a 2023 first-round pick and a 2023 second-round pick; Bills get No. 7

---

Schoen hasn’t made any blockbuster moves yet. His first months on the job have mostly been dedicated to digging out from the wreckage he inherited. The draft will be his first opportunity to make a major impression as GM.

Schoen can’t go wrong sticking at No. 5 and 7 to add two blue-chip prospects to a roster devoid of elite talent. But trading back to acquire a 2023 first-round pick will better position him to acquire a franchise quarterback next offseason. It will be fascinating to see if Schoen can pull off that type of trade in a soft market.

[Herc]

Really want one of those two OT's but 7 and 9 or 7 and 8 plus the picks next year is nice consolation too.

[Sephiroth]

36 minutes ago, Herc said:

Really want one of those two OT's but 7 and 9 or 7 and 8 plus the picks next year is nice consolation too.

Honestly in that scenario I think we should look to trade down again.  We also have very little cap space this year and two top-10 picks are somewhere along the lines of 16 million dollars where a top-10 and a teens/20s pick is something like 9 million. 

[mastershake]

If we trade out of the first, and don't land one of these top 3 OL with either the #5 or the #7, that will be a huge failure.

Honestly at the point where you're going to trade the #5 or #7, you're essentially admitting that you're betting on a QB for next year's draft (e.g. CJ Stroud or Bryce Young)...but why? We might as well draft Malik Willis this year at #5 if that's the plan, and then go OL with #7. Start the rebuild now.

CJ Stroud and Bryce Young aren't necessary locks at the QB position and have question marks the same as any hyped up 1st round QB. Remember when the Media hyped up Spencer Rattler for this year's draft (he's not even in the draft now), or Tua, or Dwayne Haskins, or Sam Darnold. What makes Stroud and/or Young a better prospect than Willis now?

And you're all but admitting you'd have to TRADE UP next year to get one of these two, while right now, you have the #5 and are already in position to get Willis now. 

Similarly, Josh Allen of the Bills had all sorts of the same question marks as Willis. Fuck it. Draft him. Start the rebuild now.  

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I am with Shakes... keep the number five and go after an offensive lineman... then trade down the number seven.  Maybe this is what Seph is writing as well.

[Virginia Giant]

Giants and Saints.  

Saints get 5

Giants get 16 and 19,, 3rd rd,  2023 2nd, and 4th, 2024 1st.  

The new administration is going to get a BUNCH of rope and get every opportunity to fail.  2022 is a throwaway season, 2023 is the beginning of the rebuild.  Giants brass isn't expecting results until 2024/25.  

If they need a QB next year, they'll be bad enough they will be top 10 in the draft anyway and will be able to make a move up if needed.  

[Nas]

13 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

Giants and Saints.  

Saints get 5

Giants get 16 and 19,, 3rd rd,  2023 2nd, and 4th, 2024 1st.  

The new administration is going to get a BUNCH of rope and get every opportunity to fail.  2022 is a throwaway season, 2023 is the beginning of the rebuild.  Giants brass isn't expecting results until 2024/25.  

If they need a QB next year, they'll be bad enough they will be top 10 in the draft anyway and will be able to make a move up if needed.  

I don’t think the Saints are THAT desperate.

[mastershake]

14 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

Giants and Saints.  

Saints get 5

Giants get 16 and 19,, 3rd rd,  2023 2nd, and 4th, 2024 1st.  

The new administration is going to get a BUNCH of rope and get every opportunity to fail.  2022 is a throwaway season, 2023 is the beginning of the rebuild.  Giants brass isn't expecting results until 2024/25.  

If they need a QB next year, they'll be bad enough they will be top 10 in the draft anyway and will be able to make a move up if needed.  

If we trade out of one of these top three OL, and come away with no OL in the first, it would be a travesty. I'd say only do this if you can get one of Neal, Ekwonu, or Cross, or possibly at least Trevor Penning who also looks like he could be a long time starter in the league.

But again, I go back to my original point. Why bet on next year's QB class? There's no telling how good they will be vs this years, and you're in position now to take a QB (Willis, Pickett)...you might as well take them now. Next years QB Class (Stroud, Bryce Young) have their own question marks and aren't guarantees. We might as well start the QB clock now, if not a 1st then perhaps with a 2nd round pick (e.g. Howell, Ridder) 

[Nas]

32 minutes ago, mastershake said:

If we trade out of one of these top three OL, and come away with no OL in the first, it would be a travesty. I'd say only do this if you can get one of Neal, Ekwonu, or Cross, or possibly at least Trevor Penning who also looks like he could be a long time starter in the league.

But again, I go back to my original point. Why bet on next year's QB class? There's no telling how good they will be vs this years, and you're in position now to take a QB (Willis, Pickett)...you might as well take them now. Next years QB Class (Stroud, Bryce Young) have their own question marks and aren't guarantees. We might as well start the QB clock now, if not a 1st then perhaps with a 2nd round pick (e.g. Howell, Ridder) 

I'm not in favor of getting a QB this year... why?  For one we need to give our current this one more year... secondly and most importantly, we need an OL to protect whoever the QB is.... Also, we're not tied to drafting a QB next year should our current QB not cut it... if he sucks we can wait for a better draft at QB... we can simply add draft capital until then.   

[Virginia Giant]

5 hours ago, mastershake said:

If we trade out of one of these top three OL, and come away with no OL in the first, it would be a travesty. I'd say only do this if you can get one of Neal, Ekwonu, or Cross, or possibly at least Trevor Penning who also looks like he could be a long time starter in the league.

But again, I go back to my original point. Why bet on next year's QB class? There's no telling how good they will be vs this years, and you're in position now to take a QB (Willis, Pickett)...you might as well take them now. Next years QB Class (Stroud, Bryce Young) have their own question marks and aren't guarantees. We might as well start the QB clock now, if not a 1st then perhaps with a 2nd round pick (e.g. Howell, Ridder) 

I’ve warmed a little on the qbs this year, but I anticipated that. I just think you have to commit to one more year with DJ.   

[mastershake]

I still don't get the logic of "We still need to see what we have in Daniel Jones this year." 

Coupled with "We won't have a good OL this year, so we're not going to have a good offense to support a QB."

Kinda weird. What's weirder is trying to ditch Toney after only year 1, when we don't even know what he is, he's on a dirt cheap rookie contract, and might be the most talented offensive receiver on the field for the giants this season.

Which is why we should have traded Barkley and traded/or cut Bradberry, and invested in the OL, and started the rebuild now.

2022 is going to be a year where Joe Schoen and Giants management, and a lot of bewildered Giant fans, learn that Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley are not the future of this franchise. I already know this. They apparently don't yet. They'll have to learn the hard way.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

I still don't get the logic of "We still need to see what we have in Daniel Jones this year." 

Coupled with "We won't have a good OL this year, so we're not going to have a good offense to support a QB."

Kinda weird. What's weirder is trying to ditch Toney after only year 1, when we don't even know what he is, he's on a dirt cheap rookie contract, and might be the most talented offensive receiver on the field for the giants this season.

Which is why we should have traded Barkley and traded/or cut Bradberry, and invested in the OL, and started the rebuild now.

2022 is going to be a year where Joe Schoen and Giants management, and a lot of bewildered Giant fans, learn that Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley are not the future of this franchise. I already know this. They apparently don't yet. They'll have to learn the hard way.

I actually fully think that Schoen tosses Jones and Barkley this offseason regardless of what happens.

Jones has a break out year? They ain't paying him 30+ million a year with a new team in a rebuild.

Barkley has a great year? They probably trade him before week 8 to some team.

Regardless of what they do on the field good or bad, I don't think either guy is a Giant past this year.

[mastershake]

25 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I actually fully think that Schoen tosses Jones and Barkley this offseason regardless of what happens.

Jones has a break out year? They ain't paying him 30+ million a year with a new team in a rebuild.

Barkley has a great year? They probably trade him before week 8 to some team.

Regardless of what they do on the field good or bad, I don't think either guy is a Giant past this year.

Right, I was thinking the same thing. Even if Jones and/or Barkley have a good year, we're not going to pay them.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

It is time to start straight from scratch and that means scratch.  Start with an OL and DL... proceed from there.

[Nas]

7 hours ago, mastershake said:

Right, I was thinking the same thing. Even if Jones and/or Barkley have a good year, we're not going to pay them.

Why not?  I thought we’re in the business of finding and keeping good players, no?

[Sephiroth]

16 hours ago, mastershake said:

Right, I was thinking the same thing. Even if Jones and/or Barkley have a good year, we're not going to pay them.

Maybe... but it's almost impossible to fathom either having a good year. Right now our starting offensive line is Thomas (who's already had injuries in his first two seasons), the guy from the Colts, and three practice-squad level players. Our line sucked last year but this one may actually be worse; it's close to the end of the "fix your team" season and we have no starting caliber players at three of five spots. 

[GorillaNJ]

GREEN BAY RECEIVES:

 

• Round 1, 2022: No. 7 overall

 

NEW YORK RECEIVES:

 

 

• Round 1, 2022: No. 22 overall
• Round 2, 2022: No. 59
• Round 2, 2023

 

 

Why the deal makes sense: It puts the Packers in position to draft a replacement for wide receiver Davante Adams, who was shipped to the Las Vegas Raiders. It also gives the Giants two more premium picks: a second-rounder this year and a second-round selection in 2023. General manager Joe Schoen needs affordable quality talent and the draft is the best way to make that happen. Although it’s a bit surprising he would trade back without getting a first-round selection for next year.

[GorillaNJ]

Not sure why that post came so huge...   that was from NJ.com as a rumor.       I think I would sign up for that trade, so long as we land a dude of an offensive lineman with the 5 pick.

 

 

[mastershake]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Maybe... but it's almost impossible to fathom either having a good year. Right now our starting offensive line is Thomas (who's already had injuries in his first two seasons), the guy from the Colts, and three practice-squad level players. Our line sucked last year but this one may actually be worse; it's close to the end of the "fix your team" season and we have no starting caliber players at three of five spots. 

Yep, exactly. And most likely a rookie lineman as well, which will also be unpredictable. 

So the evaluation of DJ in 2022 was always going to be "Well, we don't know what DJ is because he never had a great supporting cast."

Plus he'll likely get injured again anyway.

[Virginia Giant]

1 hour ago, GorillaNJ said:

Not sure why that post came so huge...   that was from NJ.com as a rumor.       I think I would sign up for that trade, so long as we land a dude of an offensive lineman with the 5 pick.

 

 

Os be pretty pissed of we dropped nearly 20 spots and only got two second round picks out of it. 

[jranieli]

 

2 hours ago, GorillaNJ said:

Not sure why that post came so huge...   that was from NJ.com as a rumor.       I think I would sign up for that trade, so long as we land a dude of an offensive lineman with the 5 pick.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

Os be pretty pissed of we dropped nearly 20 spots and only got two second round picks out of it. 

I know I could get more for that in Madden

[Virginia Giant]

32 minutes ago, jranieli said:

 

 

I know I could get more for that in Madden

Damn right.