Keep 'em or dump 'em

[Lubeck]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...us_know_wh.html

 

There are many choices so I'll just post important ones

 

GM Reese:

94% Keep

6% Dump

 

HC Coughlin:

89% Keep

11% Dump

 

DC Spags:

96% Keep

4% Dump

 

OC Gilfuck:

38% Keep

62% Dump

 

QB Manning:

87% Keep

13% Dump

 

HB Jacobs:

97% Keep

3% Dump

 

HB Ward:

72% Keep

28% Dump

 

WR Burress:

46% Keep

54% Dump

 

WR Toomer:

46% Keep

54% Dump

 

LB Pierce:

53% Keep

47% Dump

[Treehugger]

Sounds about right.

[njsmalls]

I'd dump Carney, Clark, Gilfucker, Ward, Toomer, Hixon should not be a starter and I'd rather have Kiwanuka as a LB. Pierce is a great leader of our defense and defends the run pretty well. He's not that great but there's nobody out there that we could realistically replace him with.

[BlueInCanada]

Man I'm glad the fans dont run the team.

[BIGBLUE01]

My question is, what retards voted to dump Spags, TC, Reese and Jacobs?

[boohyah]

This may sound nuts, but 97% say to keep Jacobs?. With all due respect and in reference to the other numbers on here, this seems a little out of whack. Jacobs has been injury prone, and has some problems picking his holes. Some games he has been ineffective and some he hasn't run hard. I know, his potential is incredible and he's a beast to tackle, he's still a long way off Tiki's level IMO. If you're going to say he's 97% "keep him", that's like saying you'd never trade him cause he's so good, would you say the same if for example, The Vikings came along and said "we'll trade you Peterson for Jacobs straight up".

[BIGBLUE01]

This may sound nuts, but 97% say to keep Jacobs?. With all due respect and in reference to the other numbers on here, this seems a little out of whack. Jacobs has been injury prone, and has some problems picking his holes. Some games he has been ineffective and some he hasn't run hard. I know, his potential is incredible and he's a beast to tackle, he's still a long way off Tiki's level IMO. If you're going to say he's 97% "keep him", that's like saying you'd never trade him cause he's so good, would you say the same if for example, The Vikings came along and said "we'll trade you Peterson for Jacobs straight up".

 

And even with Jacobs being injury prone and not picking the right holes AND missing several games, he amassed 1,000 yds. The guy has tremendous strength and talent and is a big reason we had the great run game.

[boohyah]

And even with Jacobs being injury prone and not picking the right holes AND missing several games, he amassed 1,000 yds. The guy has tremendous strength and talent and is a big reason we had the great run game.

 

 

I know Blue, don't get me wrong, I like the guy. I just think that's a little high.

[BIGBLUE01]

I know Blue, don't get me wrong, I like the guy. I just think that's a little high.

 

Im not surprised, cause I think alot feel that he is too valuable to let go, despite his downfalls(like injury prone etc.).

 

What about Reese? How can even ONE person say they dont want him back?

[boohyah]

Im not surprised, cause I think alot feel that he is too valuable to let go, despite his downfalls(like injury prone etc.).

 

What about Reese? How can even ONE person say they dont want him back?

 

 

Eagles fans in on the vote.

[ppodlesny]

My question is, what retards voted to dump Spags, TC, Reese and Jacobs?

I was thinking the same thing

[NightFire]

This may sound nuts, but 97% say to keep Jacobs?. With all due respect and in reference to the other numbers on here, this seems a little out of whack. Jacobs has been injury prone, and has some problems picking his holes. Some games he has been ineffective and some he hasn't run hard. I know, his potential is incredible and he's a beast to tackle, he's still a long way off Tiki's level IMO. If you're going to say he's 97% "keep him", that's like saying you'd never trade him cause he's so good, would you say the same if for example, The Vikings came along and said "we'll trade you Peterson for Jacobs straight up".

 

Jacobs is a lot like (old) Shockey to Giants Fans. Even if you criticizes him you are just a homer for doing so. Jacobs is good but he has a long way to go before he could ever conceive of winning a rushing title. I have noticed that he likes to tip toe to the hole sometimes and his injuries are a huge issue. He isn't carrying the load and he already has issues staying on the field.

[Nas]

I'd dump Carney, Clark, Gilfucker, Ward, Toomer, Hixon should not be a starter and I'd rather have Kiwanuka as a LB. Pierce is a great leader of our defense and defends the run pretty well. He's not that great but there's nobody out there that we could realistically replace him with.

 

Why would you dump Clark? The guy seems to always be in the pile.. making stops. Hixon may not be a #1 WR caliber but he's pretty good somewhere down in the depth chart and in kick returns. I love Toomer.. but I think he's lost more than a step.

 

AP is overrated in my opinion. He's a liability.

[Tempest]

If you're going to make a keep'em or dump'em thread; come up with realistic players/coaches to replace them.

 

Dump Antonio Pierce and bring in who exactly? I know its popular here to dump Pierce especially after that second Eagles game but its popular stupidity. There aren't many linebackers that can cover a player like Westbrook and those might be able to well they're not available.

 

I do realize people are still ticked off about Burress but if he can come back next year, we should bring him back.

 

Its a really good thing the fans don't run franchises. Just stick to the video games.

[CrazedDogs]

I love Pierce, and I think he might still have a place on the team, but the Giants desperately need a dose of athleticism at linebacker. In the second half of the season word got out that the Giants LBs can't cover RBs worth a damn; more than anything else, that killed the defense.

 

And I still don't understand why the D changed up so much in the 2nd half of the Eagles game. The Eagles hadn't moved the ball at all, the D was dominant in the 1st half. But if you can stomach it, re-watch the game and compare the defensive sets in the two halves...in the 1st half there was always someone, typically Pierce, lined up in one of the C-G gaps, but the 2nd half was completely different, everybody was back off the line, and lo and behold the Eagles had success moving the ball. I don't get it...did Spags pre-emptively change it up to counter the changes he thought the Eagles would make? Because thats dumb...everyone knows Andy Reid doesn't make half-time adjustments.

 

Anyway, I'm not running these guys out of town, but I think we've seen a few chinks in their armor.

[Herc]

This may sound nuts, but 97% say to keep Jacobs?. With all due respect and in reference to the other numbers on here, this seems a little out of whack. Jacobs has been injury prone, and has some problems picking his holes. Some games he has been ineffective and some he hasn't run hard. I know, his potential is incredible and he's a beast to tackle, he's still a long way off Tiki's level IMO. If you're going to say he's 97% "keep him", that's like saying you'd never trade him cause he's so good, would you say the same if for example, The Vikings came along and said "we'll trade you Peterson for Jacobs straight up".

 

i'd trade him for peterson but that might be about it. wouldn't take stephen jackson for him, wouldn't take frank gore, wouldn't take larry johnson, wouldn't take westbrook, wouldn't take portis, etc. come to think of it, now that im listing these guys a LOT of rb's are injury prone

[NightFire]

If you're going to make a keep'em or dump'em thread; come up with realistic players/coaches to replace them.

 

Dump Antonio Pierce and bring in who exactly? I know its popular here to dump Pierce especially after that second Eagles game but its popular stupidity. There aren't many linebackers that can cover a player like Westbrook and those might be able to well they're not available.

 

I do realize people are still ticked off about Burress but if he can come back next year, we should bring him back.

 

Its a really good thing the fans don't run franchises. Just stick to the video games.

 

Our LB core may not be fantastic but I agree that Pierce doesn't need dumping. The other 2 LBs playing with him though should be replaced. I think most of us were hoping that Wilkinson was going to be good but he was non-existent this year so that'd be a good place to start.

[BadEgg]

Jacobs is a lot like (old) Shockey to Giants Fans. Even if you criticizes him you are just a homer for doing so. Jacobs is good but he has a long way to go before he could ever conceive of winning a rushing title. I have noticed that he likes to tip toe to the hole sometimes and his injuries are a huge issue. He isn't carrying the load and he already has issues staying on the field.

 

For all of the reasons stated above, I don't understand this love for Jacobs. The Eagles game illustrates why they should let him go, unless they can get him cheap, and make Ward the priority. When your passing attack is struggling as much as the Giants was last Sunday, you'd better have a RB that can score from anywhere on the field. While Jacobs has good speed for a guy his size, he does not have game breaking speed.

 

Case in point: His 20-30 yard run around mid-field in the 3rd quarter. If you watch that play, the hole in the line was gaping. He did not have to run over 6 guys to get the yards. He stiff armed maybe one guy. Yet he is tripped up by Sheldon Brown. Had Ward or Bradshaw carried the ball that play, I think they score and the game changes. In a given game, there is a less of a chance of Jacobs doing what what Bradshaw did in Buffalo last year, and what Ward did to Carolina in OT, and they needed that on Sunday.

[Herc]

i value consistently moving the chains(which i think jacobs is far more suited for than ward) over the ability to break a long run but i see your point

[Allstarjim]

For all of the reasons stated above, I don't understand this love for Jacobs. The Eagles game illustrates why they should let him go, unless they can get him cheap, and make Ward the priority. When your passing attack is struggling as much as the Giants was last Sunday, you'd better have a RB that can score from anywhere on the field. While Jacobs has good speed for a guy his size, he does not have game breaking speed.

 

Case in point: His 20-30 yard run around mid-field in the 3rd quarter. If you watch that play, the hole in the line was gaping. He did not have to run over 6 guys to get the yards. He stiff armed maybe one guy. Yet he is tripped up by Sheldon Brown. Had Ward or Bradshaw carried the ball that play, I think they score and the game changes. In a given game, there is a less of a chance of Jacobs doing what what Bradshaw did in Buffalo last year, and what Ward did to Carolina in OT, and they needed that on Sunday.

 

 

For all the reasons stated above, you have no idea what you're talking about. Jacobs was the only guy on the Giants' offense in that game who was worth a damn. How you do not see how a guy like him is so valuable is beyond me. He is a guy that will get you at least 5 or 6 yards on almost every carry. Nobody would've broke through that Eagles' front on Sunday because they were stacking the line with 8, sometimes 9 guys. Jacobs is just like Marion Barber, a guy that moves the pile and the chains consistently. He may not be the guy when you are down two scores or more in the 4th quarter, but that is why we have a guy like Bradshaw, who is the homerun threat. As you are aware, having a big back who can move the chains and a quicker back that can score from anywhere on the field (as you stated) is a good formula to have. Just like Barber and F. Jones, we have Jacobs and Bradshaw going forward, and a tweener in Ward if he is retained.

 

Also, Ward did get touches on Sunday and was ineffective. Bradshaw I don't even think ever got touches, but that is on the coaches. Jacobs is consistently leading the NFL in YPC, so why you don't think he's that valuable is beyond me. The Giants lost because they couldn't pass the ball, not because they needed someone like Adrian Peterson back there. They needed to take advantage of the Eagles stacking the box, and they couldn't. Partly because of play-calling, and partly because we need players at WR, that is the position where we are hurting.

 

[Herc]

to be fair ward had a higher ypc than jacobs, but IMO he doesn't even come close to that if he's not behind jacobs

[BadEgg]

For all the reasons stated above, you have no idea what you're talking about. Jacobs was the only guy on the Giants' offense in that game who was worth a damn. How you do not see how a guy like him is so valuable is beyond me. He is a guy that will get you at least 5 or 6 yards on almost every carry. Nobody would've broke through that Eagles' front on Sunday because they were stacking the line with 8, sometimes 9 guys. Jacobs is just like Marion Barber, a guy that moves the pile and the chains consistently. He may not be the guy when you are down two scores or more in the 4th quarter, but that is why we have a guy like Bradshaw, who is the homerun threat. As you are aware, having a big back who can move the chains and a quicker back that can score from anywhere on the field (as you stated) is a good formula to have. Just like Barber and F. Jones, we have Jacobs and Bradshaw going forward, and a tweener in Ward if he is retained.

 

Also, Ward did get touches on Sunday and was ineffective. Bradshaw I don't even think ever got touches, but that is on the coaches. Jacobs is consistently leading the NFL in YPC, so why you don't think he's that valuable is beyond me. The Giants lost because they couldn't pass the ball, not because they needed someone like Adrian Peterson back there. They needed to take advantage of the Eagles stacking the box, and they couldn't. Partly because of play-calling, and partly because we need players at WR, that is the position where we are hurting.

 

I am not saying Jacobs has no value. But the argument that nobody was going to break through the Eagles front on Sunday is false because Jacobs did in that 3rd quarter gallop thanks to great blocking. He just does not have the exposiveness or the illusiveness in open field to break it. He got tripped up by a DB who ran across the field to get him! Ward or Bradshaw would have been long gone. Regardless of the reasons for the passing game's failure (wind, poor QB play, missing WRs) you need to get the ball in the hands of someone who can make a game changing play. The Giants refused to do that.

 

As far as moving the chains, I think this argument is overrated. If most of his runs are 5-6 yards, you are looking at 10-12 play scoring drives if you can't pass. One penalty, or one negative play, and you could be in a 3rd and long.

 

As far as Barber goes, I have the same problem with him, although he seems to break off 30-40 yard runs more than Jacobs. But I don't like Barber's running style because I think he sets himself up for injury, much like Jacobs. The man needs to learn to take a dive once and a while. And I felt the Cowboys took a major hit when Felix Jones got hurt. At that point teams could take TO and the Cowboys had absolutely no big play threat. Choice does not have the speed.

 

 

 

[Allstarjim]

I am not saying Jacobs has no value. But the argument that nobody was going to break through the Eagles front on Sunday is false because Jacobs did in that 3rd quarter gallop thanks to great blocking.

 

Yeah, they broke 1 run. Big deal. Just because you break through an 8 man front once doesn't mean that they aren't going to stop you the next 10 times in a row, which is basically what Philly was doing.

 

He just does not have the exposiveness or the illusiveness in open field to break it. He got tripped up by a DB who ran across the field to get him! Ward or Bradshaw would have been long gone.

 

Yes, but what Jacobs does have is the ability to run over a guy, break a tackle, and get 20-40 yard runs. He has had these types of runs in the past. If you're point is that Ward or in particular, Bradshaw, should've been getting the carries at that point in the game, I agree. But on that specific play, it is arguable that either of them would've broke it as Jacobs did to begin with. One cannot say for sure. At that moment of time, where Jacobs was tripped up, yes, Ward or Bradshaw would probably have been gone. But getting to that moment, as Jacobs did, for them it's debatable. Possibly, though.

 

Regardless of the reasons for the passing game's failure (wind, poor QB play, missing WRs) you need to get the ball in the hands of someone who can make a game changing play. The Giants refused to do that.

 

I totally agree. Which is why I have criticized the coaches so much that Bradshaw was not in the game. The WR's were also pretty impotent, and Philadelphia exposed that as a Giant weakness, which is what I've been saying for several weeks now, with some people completely disagreeing with me... <cough> Stormy... <cough>.

 

As far as moving the chains, I think this argument is overrated. If most of his runs are 5-6 yards, you are looking at 10-12 play scoring drives if you can't pass. One penalty, or one negative play, and you could be in a 3rd and long.

 

Giants were one of the least penalized teams in the NFL this year. But more to the point, it's not overrated when you are up by 2 scores and are trying to kill clock in the 4th quarter. Then guys like Jacobs and Barber are akin to Mariano Rivera in baseball, and it's those times when their value is great. Also, Jacobs time and time again wears a defense down. His physical nature beats up on a defense (and himself over the course of the year). We have seen how diminished Ward and Bradshaw's success has been when Jacobs has missed a game. Jacobs makes the entire offense better. He commands attention because rarely can you tackle him with one guy, and as I said after tackling Jacobs for a couple of quarters, Ward and Bradshaw have feasted with their speed versus a tired and beat up defense. In games Jacobs did not play, their numbers suffered greatly, and the Giants offense suffered overall. Jacobs is the MVP of the offense.

 

As far as Barber goes, I have the same problem with him, although he seems to break off 30-40 yard runs more than Jacobs. But I don't like Barber's running style because I think he sets himself up for injury, much like Jacobs. The man needs to learn to take a dive once and a while.

 

Well that's the price you pay for having a big bruising RB. Is his career going to be shorter than a guy who is more elusive and just goes down and doesn't fight for extra yards and doesn't try to run over people? Probably. But the time that you do have him he is going to help you win, same as Jacobs. He's going to be GREAT for a certain amount of time. And there are no guarantees that a different style of runner will have a longer, less injury prone career, either. There are many examples, but just take a look at Felix Jones for one... had a pretty major injury where that will put him at greater risk even after he heals. He gets hit there again real bad and all of a sudden he may have to call it a career. You just never know. Point is you just let the players play to their strengths and get what you can out of them while you can... Let them be who they are and don't try to change what works very much.

 

And I felt the Cowboys took a major hit when Felix Jones got hurt. At that point teams could take TO and the Cowboys had absolutely no big play threat. Choice does not have the speed.

 

Choice did play very well, but I agree that the Jones injury was a major blow to Dallas. If he stays healthy and they get him a little more involved, than he could be the type of player that puts a team over the top.