Let's talk about the coaching

[mastershake]

Just looking ahead towards next year at our needs on this team, if the first 4 games are any indication

New starters needed:

FS

SS

CB (Jackson is a FA)

DL (Williams is a FA)

Edge

G

G

RT

WR

RB (least priority though)

QB

We have an estimated $43M in cap space (+$6M more if we cut Glowinski, and +$4M more cutting Slayton)

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I say go for the full rebuild for hungry guys.  Next year and the year afterward.  It never gets any easier.  Just bite the bullet.

[Nas]

8 hours ago, mastershake said:

Just looking ahead towards next year at our needs on this team, if the first 4 games are any indication

New starters needed:

FS

SS

CB (Jackson is a FA)

DL (Williams is a FA)

Edge

G

G

RT

WR

RB (least priority though)

QB

We have an estimated $43M in cap space (+$6M more if we cut Glowinski, and +$4M more cutting Slayton)

 

Cut Olijari too…. I don’t care if he’s still on his rookie deal… it’s like he doesn’t want to play and when he plays, he’s underwhelming.

[BlueInCanada]

Every day that goes by and Daboll fails to address Bobby Johnson and why he isn't fired is another day I think he should be fired lol 

[gmenroc]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

Every day that goes by and Daboll fails to address Bobby Johnson and why he isn't fired is another day I think he should be fired lol 

Yeah...this is where we just don't know if it's teaching or execution.  Johnson could be telling Neal or the rest of the line exactly what needs done and the players are just incompetent...or maybe Johnson is putting them in poor positions with whatever scheme.

We know the product on the field sucks.  We can point to who isn't getting it done...but assigning fault is kinda tough until you see a guy fail at multiple positions or with multiple coaches.

So yeah, maybe a change at OLine coach is warranted just to see if it lights that fire...but that's a slippery slope cause once you start firing coaches, that ball can run uphill pretty quick

All that said, there are clear plays where the player effs up that can't fall on coaching (Neal's play)

[Herc]

Getting sick of these but here’s another 

 

 

[Mr. P]

1 minute ago, Herc said:

Getting sick of these but here’s another 

 

 

 

 

our genius coaches decided he should play center for the only year of his career. 

[BlueInCanada]

4 hours ago, Herc said:

Getting sick of these but here’s another 

 

 

It has to be the coaching here.

Some of these clips of our Oline completely ignoring their most basic assignments to go block someone else has to be the play scheme. 

Something is fundamentally wrong and it can't be just the players.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

3 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

It has to be the coaching here.

Some of these clips of our Oline completely ignoring their most basic assignments to go block someone else has to be the play scheme. 

Something is fundamentally wrong and it can't be just the players.

For sure... guys are not just getting beat... they can't see basic assignments.  Stunts are like calculus to them.

[gmenroc]

1 hour ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

For sure... guys are not just getting beat... they can't see basic assignments.  Stunts are like calculus to them.

Do college defensive lines not run stunts?  These guys have seen this shit before.  Not saying it's all the coach...but lets make sure we put down the rose shaded glasses and see what these guys have accomplished even in 1:1 matchups

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

19 hours ago, gmenroc said:

Do college defensive lines not run stunts?  These guys have seen this shit before.  Not saying it's all the coach...but lets make sure we put down the rose shaded glasses and see what these guys have accomplished even in 1:1 matchups

I think it is a combination... Ezedzu has been moved to tackle a position he never played because the back up sucks.  Bad coaching, out of position, not knowing their assignments and having no one to cover their errors.

[Sephiroth]

You know, I've always kind of been of the "players play, coaches coach" opinion... mostly because I coached for a bit and still had players do literally the exact opposite of what I had shown them, and have the same thing often happen in the classroom.  So I decided to do an objective analysis of Giants o-linemen that have left the team recently. These are PFF grades:

Nick Gates - 62.8 (current)

Kevin Zeitler - 75.1 ( 2021 )

Cameron Phlegming - 71.7 (2021)

Will Hernandez - 65.4 (2022), 71.0 current

Mike Remmers - 70.1 (2020)

 

These guys all fucking sucked while they were here, not to mention guys like Glowinski that seem to have gotten appreciably worse since being here. 

I'm starting to think it's the coaching. 

 

 

 

[Herc]

The sample size is probably big enough at this point.  Curious how solder would’ve done if he kept going 

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

You know, I've always kind of been of the "players play, coaches coach" opinion... mostly because I coached for a bit and still had players do literally the exact opposite of what I had shown them, and have the same thing often happen in the classroom.  So I decided to do an objective analysis of Giants o-linemen that have left the team recently. These are PFF grades:

Nick Gates - 62.8 (current)

Kevin Zeitler - 75.1 ( 2021 )

Cameron Phlegming - 71.7 (2021)

Will Hernandez - 65.4 (2022), 71.0 current

Mike Remmers - 70.1 (2020)

 

These guys all fucking sucked while they were here, not to mention guys like Glowinski that seem to have gotten appreciably worse since being here. 

I'm starting to think it's the coaching. 

 

 

 

Most of if not all of our highly touted Oline that left have gotten noticeably better since leaving this team.  

Yes not many of our Oline on this team is all pro talent but you can't tell me that Neal who's played all these years of football forgot how to block at the most basic level of progression. 

It has to be soemthing else in play because it looks like every single one of them out there looks like they haven't played a single snap in the NFL.

 

[BronxRik]

10 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Most of if not all of our highly touted Oline that left have gotten noticeably better since leaving this team.  

Yes not many of our Oline on this team is all pro talent but you can't tell me that Neal who's played all these years of football forgot how to block at the most basic level of progression. 

It has to be soemthing else in play because it looks like every single one of them out there looks like they haven't played a single snap in the NFL.

 

I expressed my opinion in a different thread and got lambasted for it. 

 

(Okay, this time I'm kidding. I couldn't take the ridicule again)

[BlueInCanada]

17 minutes ago, BronxRik said:

I expressed my opinion in a different thread and got lambasted for it. 

 

(Okay, this time I'm kidding. I couldn't take the ridicule again)

Basted Lamb?

Probably be pretty tasty. 

[Treehugger]

On 10/5/2023 at 8:21 PM, Virginia Giant said:

Jones has literally never looked worse.  Except for one half of one game, he is been the absolute worst QB to take a snap this season.  

For what it's worth, Jones' PFF grade was like 87 this week. It's hard to look good when you're taking 6+ sacks per game. Our Pass Block rating was an astounding 11.6. 

(PFF grading starts at 50 the adds or subtracts for each play)

[Treehugger]

3 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

I think it is a combination... Ezedzu has been moved to tackle a position he never played because the back up sucks.  Bad coaching, out of position, not knowing their assignments and having no one to cover their errors.

Ezedzu got put at T (which he played quite a bit in college) because he's actually better than Peart, who's supposed to be the back-up T. We have literally no depth. 

[Iceman_NYG]

Every play these bums just leave 1-2 players come through untouched. Every play. How incompetent do you have to be as a whole unit for that to happen?? Within 1.2 sec 4 out of 5 lineman are facing the QB after a 180 degree shit swivel. Its so bad that Micah Parsons came out to point out how atrocious the line is and in support of DJ.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

21 hours ago, Treehugger said:

Ezedzu got put at T (which he played quite a bit in college) because he's actually better than Peart, who's supposed to be the back-up T. We have literally no depth. 

I was under the impression that he never really played tackle.  Thanks for the correction.

[Treehugger]

2 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

I was under the impression that he never really played tackle.  Thanks for the correction.

I didn't know that either until someone mentioned it on Reddit. Here's his draft profile:

Ezeudu (pronounced eh-ZOO-do) played in one game as a reserve his first year on campus but remained off the field the rest of the year to retain eligibility. He then started seven of 13 appearances as a redshirt freshman the next season (two at left tackle, five at left guard). Ezeudu missed the first two games of 2020 with a lower-body injury but still played well enough in his 10 starts (three at right tackle, seven at left guard) to receive third-team All-ACC accolades from league coaches. He was an honorable mention all-conference pick in 2021, starting nine games at left guard and two at left tackle. -- by Chad Reuter

[Sephiroth]

12 hours ago, Treehugger said:

I didn't know that either until someone mentioned it on Reddit. Here's his draft profile:

Ezeudu (pronounced eh-ZOO-do) played in one game as a reserve his first year on campus but remained off the field the rest of the year to retain eligibility. He then started seven of 13 appearances as a redshirt freshman the next season (two at left tackle, five at left guard). Ezeudu missed the first two games of 2020 with a lower-body injury but still played well enough in his 10 starts (three at right tackle, seven at left guard) to receive third-team All-ACC accolades from league coaches. He was an honorable mention all-conference pick in 2021, starting nine games at left guard and two at left tackle. -- by Chad Reuter

Yeah he was drafted to be the "fill in anywhere" first guy off the bench, but he sucks so pretty much he'll just suck anywhere. It was obvious in camp that they wanted him to be the starting LG over Glowinski but he couldn't win the job, which was pretty telling.

[Mr. P]

10 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Yeah he was drafted to be the "fill in anywhere" first guy off the bench, but he sucks so pretty much he'll just suck anywhere. It was obvious in camp that they wanted him to be the starting LG over Glowinski but he couldn't win the job, which was pretty telling.

 

it wasn’t Glowinski he had to beat for lg.    Glowinski started at rg at the beginning of the year. 

[Sephiroth]

3 hours ago, Mr. P said:

 

it wasn’t Glowinski he had to beat for lg.    Glowinski started at rg at the beginning of the year. 

Ahh RG is what I meant. 

Regardless, he couldn't beat him or Bredeson, and that's a really bad sign. 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

18 hours ago, Treehugger said:

I didn't know that either until someone mentioned it on Reddit. Here's his draft profile:

Ezeudu (pronounced eh-ZOO-do) played in one game as a reserve his first year on campus but remained off the field the rest of the year to retain eligibility. He then started seven of 13 appearances as a redshirt freshman the next season (two at left tackle, five at left guard). Ezeudu missed the first two games of 2020 with a lower-body injury but still played well enough in his 10 starts (three at right tackle, seven at left guard) to receive third-team All-ACC accolades from league coaches. He was an honorable mention all-conference pick in 2021, starting nine games at left guard and two at left tackle. -- by Chad Reuter

 

5 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Yeah he was drafted to be the "fill in anywhere" first guy off the bench, but he sucks so pretty much he'll just suck anywhere. It was obvious in camp that they wanted him to be the starting LG over Glowinski but he couldn't win the job, which was pretty telling.

Thanks again Tree... love the info... and I totally agree with you Seph.  Don't like these every man projects the Giants specialize in.  Sometimes just pick the best guy to fill a specific role.  Have you backups maybe be the everything handyman.  We all know that being a tackle means you are 80-90% alone on an island with maybe a chip from a TE or RB if you are lucky, while guards are covered up and have to go left or right, plus pull and trap when needed.  Two very different skill sets that are beyond most drafted college players and it only leads to mediocrity to me.  I have been all levels of supervisor, and have been the head cheese the last 20 years of my work life.  You have your specific workers/players who are great, you have your utility people who you plug in where needed, and then unfortunately you mess ups who can at best do one or two jobs okay and nothing very well.  The Giants have a lot of categories two and three... very few in category one.  You need a lot of ones and twos....with very few threes.  This is the essence of good management anywhere and at any level.