Judge and Co fucked up this game.

[BlueInCanada]

Jones clearly wasnt right from the first snap of the game.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but Jones never once tried to scramble, and only rolled out what? Twice the entire game to buy time?

I love Judge, and what him and his staff have done with this very flawed roster are amazing, but this game and what happened to Jones is on him.

I would of rather had a 100% Jones for Browns/Raven/Cowboys, then what we have now and the possibility that McCoy is starting vs the Browns.

[Treehugger]

The "improving" OLine got completely exposed today too.

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, Treehugger said:

The "improving" OLine got completely exposed today too.

They were solid for the first half of the game, went to hell in the third though.

The Cardinals just came out playing full cover one, with 8 in the box and man coverage outside, they forced the Giants to either run into a overloaded front, or get the ball out in time to beat the blitz.

They challenged our WRs to get open on the outside 1v1, and many of those sacks today were simply coverage sacks, because Jones had no one to throw to, and he couldn't scramble for yardage because of the hammy.

 

[mastershake]

I agree with you BC.

So Hassan Reddick. The guy has had a mediocre career. Rotational, situational player. Drops fucking 5 sacks on us today, lol. That's gotta be a level that hasn't been achieved in a while, and is rare in the league.

Giants always seem to have a knack for making mediocre players look like hall of famers.

[CrazedDogs]

32 minutes ago, Treehugger said:

The "improving" OLine got completely exposed today too.

I'm not sure. Other than Golden's sack-fumble, I think those sacks were all after a solid three second count. On three of the sacks had time to comment 'nice pocket'.

[BlueInCanada]

9 minutes ago, mastershake said:

I agree with you BC.

So Hassan Reddick. The guy has had a mediocre career. Rotational, situational player. Drops fucking 5 sacks on us today, lol. That's gotta be a level that hasn't been achieved in a while, and is rare in the league.

Giants always seem to have a knack for making mediocre players look like hall of famers.

I'll give Reddick some credit he fucking destroyed both Flemming and Thomas on two of those sacks, but those other sacks Jones had plenty of time, now granted it's on Jones to get rid of the ball but he was playing to win, not throw the ball away. Still he should of thrown it away, since clearly he wasnt able to move around this game.

But yeah how many times do we have some back up bench player just have a career game against this team.

It must be what the Seahawks felt when Niko sealed the game for the Giants last week.

But still I feel it comes back to the fact Jones wasnt able to use his mobility this game, normally he'd step up or run outside and scramble, by the third quarter he was basically a statue in the pocket.

This game was fucked from the start with the hammy injury.

[Tempest]

I have a hard time believing Daniel Jones was rushed into the lineup.  Honestly he thought he was ready to play last week just as he thought he was ready to play right after getting injured and replaced by McCoy.   Jones in the lineup changes the entire dynamic of the offense as any franchise QB does.

[BlueInCanada]

18 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I have a hard time believing Daniel Jones was rushed into the lineup.  Honestly he thought he was ready to play last week just as he thought he was ready to play right after getting injured and replaced by McCoy.   Jones in the lineup changes the entire dynamic of the offense as any franchise QB does.

Judge even admitted to Jones not being able to move around today because of the hammy, they literally took away one of Jones greatest strengths this game because he wasn't 100%.

Having Jones in the line up did nothing for the offense today I'm sorry to say, they had 58 yards in the first half, McCoy could of had 58 yards in the first half.

When the Cardinals realized Jones wasnt a threat outside of the pocket, they put their ears back and came after him with constant 8 man fronts.

Having a 90% Jones today hurt the team, since even a 100% Jones doesn't mean this team is at the top of it's game.

[boohyah]

They wouldn't have put Jones in there if they didn't think he was able to go You have to play your best guys. If Colt McCoy had started today, same shit would have happened. You can't have it both ways. The first sack wasn't Jones fault, we had 2 tight ends covering that side and Tulolo lost his fucking man.

[BlueInCanada]

8 minutes ago, boohyah said:

They wouldn't have put Jones in there if they didn't think he was able to go You have to play your best guys. If Colt McCoy had started today, same shit would have happened. You can't have it both ways. The first sack wasn't Jones fault, we had 2 tight ends covering that side and Tulolo lost his fucking man.

 

I'm not saying he wasnt ready to go, I'm saying he shouldn't of played because he wasnt the QB he is when he's healthy.

Jones with a hamstring injury still affecting him, makes him an average QB. He isnt an elite passing talent at this point in his career, his best attribute is he can move and make time with his legs, or make the decision to pull the ball down and pick up some yards.

You take that away from him and he's no better than McCoy, you literally seen it with your own eyes.

This is the quote from Judge;

"Well, I thought he was able to protect himself in the pocket, which was the main concern as in can he step up and can he move in it. We knew there were going to be some situations today where he wasn't going to pull it down and just run like he's done in the past. We knew that he was going to either end up throwing the ball away or take sacks at certain point."

They knew Jones wasnt 100%

[boohyah]

1 minute ago, BlueInCanada said:

 

I'm not saying he wasnt ready to go, I'm saying he shouldn't of played because he wasnt the QB he is when he's healthy.

Jones with a hamstring injury still affecting him, makes him an average QB. He isnt an elite passing talent at this point in his career, his best attribute is he can move and make time with his legs, or make the decision to pull the ball down and pick up some yards.

You take that away from him and he's no better than McCoy, you literally seen it with your own eyes.

This is the quote from Judge;

"Well, I thought he was able to protect himself in the pocket, which was the main concern as in can he step up and can he move in it. We knew there were going to be some situations today where he wasn't going to pull it down and just run like he's done in the past. We knew that he was going to either end up throwing the ball away or take sacks at certain point."

They knew Jones wasnt 100%

Seriously, how many of these players are 100% healthy at this point. You're missing the point, they felt and Jones felt he was ready so he played. The quote explains the rationale. I have no issue with the decision, coaches felt they could work around it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Virginia Giant]

I think QBs who can run are going to have many games in their career when their legs are banged up, and if they are winning QBs, they have to win from the pocket, with their arm.  There was a lot that went wrong on offense today.  Receivers couldn't get open, line couldn't block, quarterback couldn't get rid of the ball.  Also, I don't know the stats, but in a game that begged for the Giants to establish a running game, it felt like they only gave a half-hearted attempt at it early in the game. 

[BlueInCanada]

13 minutes ago, boohyah said:

Seriously, how many of these players are 100% healthy at this point. You're missing the point, they felt and Jones felt he was ready so he played. The quote explains the rationale. I have no issue with the decision, coaches felt they could work around it.

They played a hampered Jones who couldn't use his greatest strength, who got re injured, and didnt help the team in any way.

How hard is this to understand?

McCoy wouldn't of won the game, but Jones might of been able to come back against the Browns with the ability to move, now we might have another week of McCoy.

The coaches gambled and it didnt pay off.

lol what are people trying to defend?

[BlueInCanada]

15 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

I think QBs who can run are going to have many games in their career when their legs are banged up, and if they are winning QBs, they have to win from the pocket, with their arm.  There was a lot that went wrong on offense today.  Receivers couldn't get open, line couldn't block, quarterback couldn't get rid of the ball.  Also, I don't know the stats, but in a game that begged for the Giants to establish a running game, it felt like they only gave a half-hearted attempt at it early in the game. 

That's what worries me about Jones.

He's shown he can't stand up to the punishment of being hit in the NFL, if he cant scramble (or scramble safer) then he's going to have to be a better pocket passer.

Right now he's an average pocket QB.

[Virginia Giant]

4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

That's what worries me about Jones.

He's shown he can't stand up to the punishment of being hit in the NFL, if he cant scramble (or scramble safer) then he's going to have to be a better pocket passer.

Right now he's an average pocket QB.

There are games he looks great throwing the ball, and games he looks lost.  The Cards' secondary just seem to have the WRs locked down today.  For next year, a true number one WR is a need.  Salyton is a home run hitter, Sheppard i a chain mover, but neither of those guys is going to demand a lot of extra attention.  Guys like Hopkins are rare, obviously, but the Giants need that guy on the outside. 

Been thinking a lot of about Jones, who exactly is he?  Is he a pocket QB that can run?  He's not exactly a play extender like Murray or Wilson, or even Rodgers or Ben, I don't think.  He still looks fucking oblivious to pressure a lot of the time. 

[BlueInCanada]

8 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

There are games he looks great throwing the ball, and games he looks lost.  The Cards' secondary just seem to have the WRs locked down today.  For next year, a true number one WR is a need.  Salyton is a home run hitter, Sheppard i a chain mover, but neither of those guys is going to demand a lot of extra attention.  Guys like Hopkins are rare, obviously, but the Giants need that guy on the outside. 

Been thinking a lot of about Jones, who exactly is he?  Is he a pocket QB that can run?  He's not exactly a play extender like Murray or Wilson, or even Rodgers or Ben, I don't think.  He still looks fucking oblivious to pressure a lot of the time. 

Yeah Jones needs some playmakers before anything else can really be said.

When he had Barkley, defenses had to worry about him taking a simple dump off pass to the house, or being a home run threat any time he touched the ball.

It helped guys like Slayton face solo coverage on the outside, and Shepard would be allowed to play in the slot where he should be.

It doesn't excuse his poor play at all, but it doesn't help.

Atleast with some help on the outside he can sit in the pocket and not have to put himself in harms way scrambling.

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

That's what worries me about Jones.

He's shown he can't stand up to the punishment of being hit in the NFL, if he cant scramble (or scramble safer) then he's going to have to be a better pocket passer.

Right now he's an average pocket QB.

Yeah I was hoping we'd see what we had today when teams didn't have to worry about gimmick plays, but the line and receivers didn't wanna cooperate. We need a true #1 next year and need to think about a high draft pick as well.

53 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

There are games he looks great throwing the ball, and games he looks lost.  The Cards' secondary just seem to have the WRs locked down today.  For next year, a true number one WR is a need.  Salyton is a home run hitter, Sheppard i a chain mover, but neither of those guys is going to demand a lot of extra attention.  Guys like Hopkins are rare, obviously, but the Giants need that guy on the outside. 

Been thinking a lot of about Jones, who exactly is he?  Is he a pocket QB that can run?  He's not exactly a play extender like Murray or Wilson, or even Rodgers or Ben, I don't think.  He still looks fucking oblivious to pressure a lot of the time. 

Thats funny, I've been wondering this as well. The offense was so bad for so long this season then there was a little stretch where Jones played pretty good, not great but at least didn't fuck things up. I was hoping we'd get that Daniel Jones today but unfortunately we got Dog Shit Danny instead and now I'm back to not knowing what we've got.

I don't think we'll really know until he has a true NFL wr on the team but like I've said, his inability to limit yhe fuckups is really troubling. 

[boohyah]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

They played a hampered Jones who couldn't use his greatest strength, who got re injured, and didnt help the team in any way.

How hard is this to understand?

McCoy wouldn't of won the game, but Jones might of been able to come back against the Browns with the ability to move, now we might have another week of McCoy.

The coaches gambled and it didnt pay off.

lol what are people trying to defend?

Do you understand what I wrote?. Seemingly not. Not a gamble. They decided he was healthy enough and went with it. Organization decision, they didn't play him last week yet Jones flew to Seattle with the team and wanted to play and Judge said no. When they won, Judge was a genius. You were on that train.

Jones was fine when he went 3-0 and had no turnovers. It didn't take long to sour on him again it seems. 

Andrew Thomas sucks ass again, they should have never fired Colombo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueInCanada]

Jones has played in 25 career games.

In all but one he had multiple rushing attempts.

Guess which one he didn't have a single rushing attempt?

It's almost like he was playing hurt.

[Iceman_NYG]

Not much to analyze here - Giants had a 4 game win streak and won an improbable game against the Seahawks. Cardinals - a damn good team - was on a 3 game losing streak and needed to right ship to stay in the WC race. They just wanted it more. They came in prepared, they came with a plan - they knew Jones wasnt going to be 100% so stacking the box was the no.1 goal on defense and its not like McCoy it Speedy-2-shoes either - Giants came out flat - flat as fuck. Jets could have beaten them today. Oh well - on to the Browns. Just shows how far away we really are from a being a really good team - Chiefs had Mahomes shit the bed, throw 3 INTs and still managed to beat a 8-4 team. Thats a well oiled team. This team has been over-achieving for weeks now and actuality caught up with them this week

[Sephiroth]

Yeah this felt like a step back, which honestly we should all expect with such a young team. Lets see how they respond vs. Cleveland next week. If they don't look competitive we'll know there's a long way to go and Seattle was the abberation.

[Nas]

12 hours ago, Tempest said:

I have a hard time believing Daniel Jones was rushed into the lineup.  Honestly he thought he was ready to play last week just as he thought he was ready to play right after getting injured and replaced by McCoy.   Jones in the lineup changes the entire dynamic of the offense as any franchise QB does.

From where I'm sitting, I figured they must've thought he's ready even though I know first hand that hamstring injuries are tricky.... you think you feel fine then suddenly you're limping again.    As a rule, you need at least 3 weeks to recover from hamstring injuries (more for more severe ones).    I've had my share of those mostly as I got older and never had the discipline to stretch more... they're a bitch to deal with and the best thing to is nothing at all... no amount of massages could make them heal faster and stretching or massaging them could have the opposite effect... it's a tear in the tissue no matter how small... it needs to heal... don't fuck with it... and don't rush the player back... It looks we may have to shut down DJ for the season given we only have a few weeks left. 

[JMFP]

Hindsight is 20/20, but McCoy was probably the better option yesterday.   Jones without his legs is like Eli Manning without Eli's QB IQ.

[Mr. P]

Remember the vitriol when Coughlin played a banged up Nicks?

 

 

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, Joemorrisforprez said:

... Jones without his legs is like Eli Manning without Eli's QB IQ.

in retrospect, maybe that was the point..... to give Jones some experience playing with one leg tied behind his back. 

He'll be better for it in the long run. In theory.

And upon further review, I think that Golden sack-fumble was on Jones. That was a breakdown in the blocking scheme, and I think the QB is making the call on that.... Jones miscounted and didn't identify that Golden was unaccounted for. The play action took Gallman away from the free rusher. I think that has to be up to the QB to identify pre-snap.