The Problem in New York is Daniel Jones

[Sephiroth]

I'm not quite there yet but he does bring up some pretty good points. 

 

[BlueInCanada]

I've been saying all year, I don't care how Jones plays the next 8 week.

If next season whoever the new GM is (assume DG is fired) there is NO WAY Mara tells him "You must keep Jones if you want this job"

You let the new GM/Judge/Garrett whoever make that decision.

Is Jones the guy? Or someone else?

[JMFP]

A mistake-free Jones will win games, a mistake-prone Jones will lose them.   The Giants don't have the talent yet to overcome his mistakes.   But the kid has legs, can hit the throws, and his negatives can be (hopefully) coached out of him.

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, Joemorrisforprez said:

A mistake-free Jones will win games, a mistake-prone Jones will lose them.   The Giants don't have the talent yet to overcome his mistakes.   But the kid has legs, can hit the throws, and his negatives can be (hopefully) coached out of him.

I disagree. The defense won this game, not Daniel Jones. 

Twice in this game Jones had a chance to ice it, and twice he couldn't sustain a drive to get the win. This is also the second week in a row that the offense did nothing in the second half. 

I'm not giving up on him yet, but he really has to show that he can WIN a game, not just be ok enough not to lose in a game where you had a +5 turnover differential. 

[GorillaNJ]

13 hours ago, Joemorrisforprez said:

A mistake-free Jones will win games, a mistake-prone Jones will lose them.   The Giants don't have the talent yet to overcome his mistakes.   But the kid has legs, can hit the throws, and his negatives can be (hopefully) coached out of him.

I think part of the issue yesterday Jones was more concerned with not throwing any pics than with throwing completions.   He needs a couple of these games where he is not turning over the ball to build back up some of the confidence to start pushing it a bit harder again

[JMFP]

17 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I disagree. The defense won this game, not Daniel Jones. 

Twice in this game Jones had a chance to ice it, and twice he couldn't sustain a drive to get the win. This is also the second week in a row that the offense did nothing in the second half. 

I'm not giving up on him yet, but he really has to show that he can WIN a game, not just be ok enough not to lose in a game where you had a +5 turnover differential. 

Engram had another chance to help nail things down....instead of an easy win, it became a nailbiter because he makes every catch an adventure.   

Giants beat Philly if Engram made that catch.

Jones has sucked plenty this year, I'm just saying when he doesn't fuck the dog, the Giants can win games.

The good news is I think we have a decent coach.   This team could be 7-2 (or more likely 5-4 or 4-5 if they eliminate some bone head plays).

[Iceman_NYG]

I think we need one game in which the D actually shits the bed, and DJ can put the team on his back with no running game and actually keep us competitive if not outright win the game. If that happens, that flips a lot of switches and things start improving in every department. Until then itll always looks like quicksand.

But Ive not given up on DJ - he seems like he has the mental makeup to be a QB in NYC, has all the tools, excellent running the ball, strong enough arm for the NFL, can make every throw, has zip and touch, can throw on the run - everything. Just that every time 1 mental error costs us the game. Not a single game this entire season has been a blow-out - maybe the 1st Steelers game thats it. If only 1-2 things went our way we could be 6-2 or some shit. The division is still up for grabs. This weeks Philly game is an absolute must win.

[MikeGL]

Idk, is he really the issue? I haven't watched much, he doesn't appear terrible. Do we have talent anywhere on the field?

[Tempest]

6 hours ago, MikeGL said:

Idk, is he really the issue? I haven't watched much, he doesn't appear terrible. Do we have talent anywhere on the field?

Depends on who our opponent is

[Sephiroth]

9 hours ago, MikeGL said:

Idk, is he really the issue? I haven't watched much, he doesn't appear terrible. Do we have talent anywhere on the field?

So far this season, he never has won them the game but has probably lost it for them 3-4 times. 

[Dragon]

22 hours ago, Iceman_NYG said:

I think we need one game in which the D actually shits the bed, and DJ can put the team on his back with no running game and actually keep us competitive if not outright win the game. If that happens, that flips a lot of switches and things start improving in every department. Until then itll always looks like quicksand.

But Ive not given up on DJ - he seems like he has the mental makeup to be a QB in NYC, has all the tools, excellent running the ball, strong enough arm for the NFL, can make every throw, has zip and touch, can throw on the run - everything. Just that every time 1 mental error costs us the game. Not a single game this entire season has been a blow-out - maybe the 1st Steelers game thats it. If only 1-2 things went our way we could be 6-2 or some shit. The division is still up for grabs. This weeks Philly game is an absolute must win.

I actually did the math while debating my cousin earlier this week. If you subtract the SF game, which was the only total shitshow for us so far this year, our losses are by an average of 4.66 points which includes the 10 point loss to Pittsburgh. 

 

The questions are 1... are we a bad team or a team that just doesn't know how to win yet? And 2... what happened between 2019 and 2020 that caused DJ to decline the way he has? 

 

Imo for the 2nd question it's a combo of transitioning from Shurmur's WCO to Garrett's scheme, DJ's own lack of pocket awareness and slow progressions, skill position players that create little to no separation, and OL growing pains. 

[Iceman_NYG]

2 hours ago, Dragon said:

I actually did the math while debating my cousin earlier this week. If you subtract the SF game, which was the only total shitshow for us so far this year, our losses are by an average of 4.66 points which includes the 10 point loss to Pittsburgh. 

 

The questions are 1... are we a bad team or a team that just doesn't know how to win yet? And 2... what happened between 2019 and 2020 that caused DJ to decline the way he has? 

 

Imo for the 2nd question it's a combo of transitioning from Shurmur's WCO to Garrett's scheme, DJ's own lack of pocket awareness and slow progressions, skill position players that create little to no separation, and OL growing pains. 

Agree with everything youve mentioned.....for a young QB to have to learn 2 complex NFL offenses in back to back years before even settling into 1 is a mammoth task. People keep saying Mahomes/Lamar - these guys had the option of a stable coaching staff and team and enough time to fully gel with the system. This kid hasnt even had a full training camp in his second year in a new system due to this Covid bullshit. Cut him some slack.

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, Iceman_NYG said:

Agree with everything youve mentioned.....for a young QB to have to learn 2 complex NFL offenses in back to back years before even settling into 1 is a mammoth task. People keep saying Mahomes/Lamar - these guys had the option of a stable coaching staff and team and enough time to fully gel with the system. This kid hasnt even had a full training camp in his second year in a new system due to this Covid bullshit. Cut him some slack.

This is a fair point and one that until recently I've agreed with, but what about Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert? Jones keeps  making the same mistakes over again... locking onto receivers, turnovers, no pocket awareness. 

He's had a really bad O-line and his best WR and RB have been out. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt until now but like I've said, he has to turn the corner before the end of the season. The O-line is finally playing well and the running game has been better than adequate the past two weeks. The time for excuses is over. 

Right now the problems from September 2019 are the same problems from November 2020. That has to change (and for the record, I really like the Jones and hope it does). 

[CrazedDogs]

well I'll say for Burrow, he has way better offensive talent around him. Mixon is about 93% of Barkley, and pretty much everything else they have is better than everything we have, excluding their WTF at right tackle, Bobby Hart. 

Haven't seen Herbert and the Chargers play yet. 

[Dragon]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

This is a fair point and one that until recently I've agreed with, but what about Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert? Jones keeps  making the same mistakes over again... locking onto receivers, turnovers, no pocket awareness. 

He's had a really bad O-line and his best WR and RB have been out. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt until now but like I've said, he has to turn the corner before the end of the season. The O-line is finally playing well and the running game has been better than adequate the past two weeks. The time for excuses is over. 

Right now the problems from September 2019 are the same problems from November 2020. That has to change (and for the record, I really like the Jones and hope it does). 

What I'll say in response to this is, I believe Shurmur's offense allowed Jones to hide his deficiencies better. This may be a Mandela effect on my part but I remember there being a stat last year where he was getting the ball out faster than every other QB in the NFL... part by necessity and part due to play design. 

 

Idk... I guess I'm just tired of being ass and instead of hoping for a changing of the guard I'm hoping what we have now can succeed. 

[GorillaNJ]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

This is a fair point and one that until recently I've agreed with, but what about Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert? Jones keeps  making the same mistakes over again... locking onto receivers, turnovers, no pocket awareness. 

He's had a really bad O-line and his best WR and RB have been out. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt until now but like I've said, he has to turn the corner before the end of the season. The O-line is finally playing well and the running game has been better than adequate the past two weeks. The time for excuses is over. 

Right now the problems from September 2019 are the same problems from November 2020. That has to change (and for the record, I really like the Jones and hope it does). 

There are not that many QB's who step in out of college and are straight up killers....   Half way through the second season is not enough time to give up on the guy who has a ton of physical talents, is known to be a hard worker and film room guy.   I do agree though, he needs to progress as this season moves on, but the schedule is getting hard as fuck after this Eagles game. 

[CrazedDogs]

21 minutes ago, Dragon said:

What I'll say in response to this is, I believe Shurmur's offense allowed Jones to hide his deficiencies better. This may be a Mandela effect on my part but I remember there being a stat last year where he was getting the ball out faster than every other QB in the NFL... part by necessity and part due to play design. 

 

Idk... I guess I'm just tired of being ass and instead of hoping for a changing of the guard I'm hoping what we have now can succeed. 

That was Eli with the getting the ball out fast stat. Jones was much slower. 

...but I'd wager still faster than this year. He seems more tentative this year by far. 

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, GorillaNJ said:

There are not that many QB's who step in out of college and are straight up killers....   Half way through the second season is not enough time to give up on the guy who has a ton of physical talents, is known to be a hard worker and film room guy.   I do agree though, he needs to progress as this season moves on, but the schedule is getting hard as fuck after this Eagles game. 

Yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up yet.  I was frustrated with Andrew Thomas but I held out hope he would turn it around, and while I wouldn't say he's out of the woods yet, he's playing a lot closer to what I expected when we drafted him over these past few weeks.  Only one sack allowed in the past 4 games.  

I'm hoping Jones can make a similar turnaround but if he's still careless with the ball and slow reading the field  by mid-December I think the Giants may have to start coming up with contingency plans.  

[Sephiroth]

I'm just gonna go ahead and bump this thread. 

[BronxRik]

The Human Turnover? 

[BlueInCanada]

• YDS

  2,335

  21st
• TD

  8

  29th
• INT

  9

  Tied-20th
• QBR

  66.3

  15th

 

[Herc]

Looks like he wasn’t ready to come back 

[Sephiroth]

The line really let him down today, but 3 fumbles, one of which set up a score, is not acceptable.  There were plays to be made out there and Jones didn't make them.

He'd better get this straightened out in the next four games.

[JMFP]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:37 PM, Sephiroth said:

I'm just gonna go ahead and bump this thread. 

Many of the comments are still valid.

Jones has a great arm, and one of the best deep throws in the NFL.  In fact, I think he might be the most accurate passer in the NFL on deep routes.   His mobility is a big weapon...when healthy, he has some serious speed.

The problem yesterday was that he had no legs, and his judgment is still not there.  

Let's not forget that he's missing arguably the most talented offensive player in the NFL.   

[boohyah]

Some of the blocking yesterday was criminal. The Golden sack should never have happened and I think Tulolo is still standing there today trying to figure out his assignment.

And Thomas was sloppy all day. Plus Lemieux is a good run blocker, bad pass blocker. Zeitler and Gates were poor also. And not sure what Matt Peart was thinking on that sack.