The Problem in New York is Daniel Jones

[Iceman_NYG]

Andrew Thomas gave up 5 sacks - 8 sacks in total. Lets focus on that one for a bit....

[Sephiroth]

Still hasn't convinced me. 

[TrashTalker92]

Is DJ?  Guy got sacked like 5 times by freaking ravens.   He holding onto ball too long?  WR not getting open?   Out coach?  What’s the issue?!?!?

[BronxRik]

10 hours ago, TrashTalker92 said:

Is DJ?  Guy got sacked like 5 times by freaking ravens.   He holding onto ball too long?  WR not getting open?   Out coach?  What’s the issue?!?!?

I'd like to believe we all make excuses for him ( bad oline, etc.)  and that he will be the 2nd coming of Eli, but... he just may not be who we thought he was. 

[JMFP]

38 minutes ago, BronxRik said:

I'd like to believe we all make excuses for him ( bad oline, etc.)  and that he will be the 2nd coming of Eli, but... he just may not be who we thought he was. 

I watched highlights around the league yesterday....and their ain't a single Giant who could have caught some of the passes I saw.   

I'm not making excuses for Jones.   He is still a long way from being in a conversation with guys like Manning and Simms.   He's still a kid compared to those two.

But the Giants would be looking at a 9-7 season if Barkley didn't go on IR in game 2.   This team desperately needs a playmaker at WR.

[Sephiroth]

On 12/28/2020 at 4:44 AM, TrashTalker92 said:

Is DJ?  Guy got sacked like 5 times by freaking ravens.   He holding onto ball too long?  WR not getting open?   Out coach?  What’s the issue?!?!?

 

19 hours ago, BronxRik said:

I'd like to believe we all make excuses for him ( bad oline, etc.)  and that he will be the 2nd coming of Eli, but... he just may not be who we thought he was. 

My problem is that there hasn't been a single time all year, not one, where I said, "what an amazing play by Daniel Jones." Not one. I understand the deficiencies on the team but the guy hasn't had one standout play? He had a good one in the Eagles game avoiding the sack and making a throw but we lost that game... and that was what, eight weeks ago?

I think you have to give him one more year with actual NFL weapons but I can't really say I'm encouraged by his play. He doesn't seem like a guy that makes things happen on his own, and all the great ones do that. He HAS devolved into some bad decision making this year (locking onto receivers, patting the ball before throws, etc).

His arm has also looked incredibly weak throwing to the flats, but not sure if this is his injury or not.

[BlueInCanada]

34 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

 

My problem is that there hasn't been a single time all year, not one, where I said, "what an amazing play by Daniel Jones." Not one. I understand the deficiencies on the team but the guy hasn't had one standout play? He had a good one in the Eagles game avoiding the sack and making a throw but we lost that game... and that was what, eight weeks ago?

I think you have to give him one more year with actual NFL weapons but I can't really say I'm encouraged by his play. He doesn't seem like a guy that makes things happen on his own, and all the great ones do that. He HAS devolved into some bad decision making this year (locking onto receivers, patting the ball before throws, etc).

His arm has also looked incredibly weak throwing to the flats, but not sure if this is his injury or not.

That's the strange thing, you look at his rookie year, and HE WAS the QB making those types of plays. He was rolling out and hitting shots deep in a dime, or picking up yards with his feet.

This year he's almost done a 180. He can't hit the deep shots, he's over throwing/overthrowing players, after the injury he hasnt scrambled or moved around at all.

I mean you always give a QB a few years to show you what he has, I think around game #40 you have a good idea of who that QB is going to be with that coaching staff.

Now as you said this offense is very void of any talent, Shepard is the only real starting WR out there, our TE is all hype, the Oline is hit and miss since it's made up of rookies, and the RB is a change of pace bench player who falls down all the time lol

You also have cases of QBs getting a new coaching staff or riding the bench for a number of games who end up getting their shit together, which might need to happen with Jones.

Jones is probably going to have a problem with injuries in the NFL (missing five already in  his career), they need to bring someone in behind him who isnt a game manager, who can possibly win games. I don't know if FitzMagic is going to play much longer in the NFL but there's a guy you need behind Jones.

Jones keeps playing as average as he is? Sit him for a stretch of games, let him get his head together.

Next year is pretty much the year we see what we have with Jones, does he play like he did year one? Great? Does he play like he did this year? Well we will probably be picking top 10 again and a QB prospect might be sitting there.

[Nas]

I will say this:

- DJ is what we have to work with.   He is our best option no matter how much he "sucks".    

- I think the FO and coaching staff should remain intact.   I'm not on the "Fire DG" bandwagon.    There's something to be said about stability and continuity.    The last time we actually had a good LB was AP... give the man a break.  

- I don't know about everyone here, but I think this team is better than years past.   We've made improvements in the trenches, and now we can shift a bit of that to the WR/TE/DE positions.   I'm not saying our OL is whole.. it isn't... but it sure as hell is getting better.    

 

All the points above are all connected.   You get WRs and a TE who are worth a damn, and suddenly DJ is that much better.   You get a stud DE and suddenly the opposing QBs don't have 8 Mississippi's to work with.  

[mastershake]

I say again, the problem is Gettleman.

- Over $20mm in cap space this year wasted on Fleming, Pulley, Toilolo, Fackrell, Core, Ebner, Dion Lewis, instead of signing veteran OL in Graham Glasgow and T Bryan Bulaga.

- The giants just recorded 48 sacks on offense, the largest level ever for the team over the last 6 years (and the last decade), up from 34 in 2017, up from 47 in 2018, and there is still one game to go. The cap hits on Solder and Tate alone are $27mm, but the cap savings if we cut them will only be about $10mm, leaving $17mm in dead cap.

- A lot of people want to make the argument that we don't have receivers who can get open. Whose fault is that?

- A lot of people want to make the argument that we'd be significantly better if Barkley were on the team. 1) Our record with Barkely is worse with him than it is without him in the last three years. and 2) What successful modern NFL franchise hinges their entire offensive success around the running back (other than maybe the Titans, who actually have a good OL to support him)? Not KC, the Steelers, Packers, Ravens, Saints, Bills, Seahawks, Bucs, etc. Even if you want to make the argument for the Saints with Kamara, they still support him with an OL.

- A lot of people say we'd be better off if Solder were healthy and at LT, and the plan was to have Thomas at RT. I agree with the latter, Thomas may be a better RT, but this OL is not substantially better with Nate Solder ANYWHERE on the line, lol.

- We're in a precarious cap situation this offseason, in large part thanks to bad contacts on Solder, Tate, and a regressing Zeitler, all Dave Gettleman moves.

- He wasted, in my view, $6mm in cap already in 2021 on picking up Engram's 5th year option.

- Name a player from the 2018 nfl draft who currently isn't injured and/or a backup rotational player at best.

[BlueInCanada]

2 hours ago, mastershake said:

I say again, the problem is Gettleman.

- Over $20mm in cap space this year wasted on Fleming, Pulley, Toilolo, Fackrell, Core, Ebner, Dion Lewis, instead of signing veteran OL in Graham Glasgow and T Bryan Bulaga.

- The giants just recorded 48 sacks on offense, the largest level ever for the team over the last 6 years (and the last decade), up from 34 in 2017, up from 47 in 2018, and there is still one game to go. The cap hits on Solder and Tate alone are $27mm, but the cap savings if we cut them will only be about $10mm, leaving $17mm in dead cap.

- A lot of people want to make the argument that we don't have receivers who can get open. Whose fault is that?

- A lot of people want to make the argument that we'd be significantly better if Barkley were on the team. 1) Our record with Barkely is worse with him than it is without him in the last three years. and 2) What successful modern NFL franchise hinges their entire offensive success around the running back (other than maybe the Titans, who actually have a good OL to support him)? Not KC, the Steelers, Packers, Ravens, Saints, Bills, Seahawks, Bucs, etc. Even if you want to make the argument for the Saints with Kamara, they still support him with an OL.

- A lot of people say we'd be better off if Solder were healthy and at LT, and the plan was to have Thomas at RT. I agree with the latter, Thomas may be a better RT, but this OL is not substantially better with Nate Solder ANYWHERE on the line, lol.

- We're in a precarious cap situation this offseason, in large part thanks to bad contacts on Solder, Tate, and a regressing Zeitler, all Dave Gettleman moves.

- He wasted, in my view, $6mm in cap already in 2021 on picking up Engram's 5th year option.

- Name a player from the 2018 nfl draft who currently isn't injured and/or a backup rotational player at best.

I feel like the majority of people here agree with you about this lol 

We've all been saying it.

Just in different ways lol

[CrazedDogs]

I'll take the opposite position, if only for the sake of discussion.

It isn't entirely implausible that the 2017 to roster was so lacking that even despite the poor record this season, Gettleman has done a great job in flipping the roster top to bottom and laying down a foundation with championship potential.

 

[Nas]

4 hours ago, mastershake said:

I say again, the problem is Gettleman.

- Over $20mm in cap space this year wasted on Fleming, Pulley, Toilolo, Fackrell, Core, Ebner, Dion Lewis, instead of signing veteran OL in Graham Glasgow and T Bryan Bulaga.

- The giants just recorded 48 sacks on offense, the largest level ever for the team over the last 6 years (and the last decade), up from 34 in 2017, up from 47 in 2018, and there is still one game to go. The cap hits on Solder and Tate alone are $27mm, but the cap savings if we cut them will only be about $10mm, leaving $17mm in dead cap.

- A lot of people want to make the argument that we don't have receivers who can get open. Whose fault is that?

- A lot of people want to make the argument that we'd be significantly better if Barkley were on the team. 1) Our record with Barkely is worse with him than it is without him in the last three years. and 2) What successful modern NFL franchise hinges their entire offensive success around the running back (other than maybe the Titans, who actually have a good OL to support him)? Not KC, the Steelers, Packers, Ravens, Saints, Bills, Seahawks, Bucs, etc. Even if you want to make the argument for the Saints with Kamara, they still support him with an OL.

- A lot of people say we'd be better off if Solder were healthy and at LT, and the plan was to have Thomas at RT. I agree with the latter, Thomas may be a better RT, but this OL is not substantially better with Nate Solder ANYWHERE on the line, lol.

- We're in a precarious cap situation this offseason, in large part thanks to bad contacts on Solder, Tate, and a regressing Zeitler, all Dave Gettleman moves.

- He wasted, in my view, $6mm in cap already in 2021 on picking up Engram's 5th year option.

- Name a player from the 2018 nfl draft who currently isn't injured and/or a backup rotational player at best.

There have been a few moves by Getty that have left some of us scratching our heads.   Barkley, while a tremendous talent, wasn't a good fit at the time and until this point.   He's a great person and a great athlete but you need an solid OL before you draft a great RB... many other moves that didn't make sense financially.   However, I still think his positives outweigh his negatives.    The clusterfuck he inherited was years in the making.