Ben Macadoo promoted to head coach

[Iceman_NYG]

We are 29th in red zone efficiency because we don't even have a shit worth his salt as a Running Back in the entire roster. It was only Jennings who probably came on a little nicely towards the end of the season - too little too late. We should have stuck with Jennings as a bell cow - we just don't have a bell cow and with a crapshoot offensive line we had nothing - nothing to do with running the ball in the red zone. Add to that the fact that we didn't have a decent TE in those red zone situations as well. Everyone knew he was going Odell's way. I think McAdoo also knew what he had to play with and a lot of our TDs came from outside the red zone itself. That was the fucking problem with our offense - you talk like there were stars twinkling all around giving Eli 3.5 minutes to survey and he then shat his pants and threw INTs. Its a team game and Eli wasn't the real problem. We need to look elsewhere. If he wasn't making this much money the Eli talk would be a lot different.

[Storm]

I'm not going to agree with the idea that Eli had nothing to work with in the red zone. He had statistically the best rookie tight end in football, Beckham, Vereen, Reuben Randle, and Dwayne Harris. Those guys are better than the options that most teams have. And waiting 15 games to decide to give Rashad Jennings the ball is inexcusable on McAdoo's part. Other teams have far less talent at skill positions and there are still 28 teams ahead of the Giants in red zone efficiency. The offense's design inherently hampers them in the red zone. Quick release, short passing game is all well and good but once you start running out of real estate, you have to get creative with your offensive playcall and I just didn't see that in the red zone. I would have loved to see a single shovel pass to Shane Vereen...a similar play got Arizona to the NFC Championship game. They ran two pick routes to Beckham against the Saints for touchdowns and that play was never seen again. No back shoulder fades. None of the things that you see other teams in the playoffs running. It was the same quick timing and slant routes over and over to no success.

[Herc]

I heard hi on francesa and it doesn't sound like he's gonna take a different approach to rbs next year. Kept saying they were "riding the hot hand" with Jennings

[Bigblue25]

I also think people expecting a massive roster turnover are going to be very disappointed. I don't see Reese changing his approach and the large cap room has to be spread out because there is not a lot of players under contract for 2016. We are going to see the same one year deals and special teams guys playing critical roles

[Tempest]

I'm not going to agree with the idea that Eli had nothing to work with in the red zone. He had statistically the best rookie tight end in football, Beckham, Vereen, Reuben Randle, and Dwayne Harris. Those guys are better than the options that most teams have. And waiting 15 games to decide to give Rashad Jennings the ball is inexcusable on McAdoo's part. Other teams have far less talent at skill positions and there are still 28 teams ahead of the Giants in red zone efficiency. The offense's design inherently hampers them in the red zone. Quick release, short passing game is all well and good but once you start running out of real estate, you have to get creative with your offensive playcall and I just didn't see that in the red zone. I would have loved to see a single shovel pass to Shane Vereen...a similar play got Arizona to the NFC Championship game. They ran two pick routes to Beckham against the Saints for touchdowns and that play was never seen again. No back shoulder fades. None of the things that you see other teams in the playoffs running. It was the same quick timing and slant routes over and over to no success.

 

I needed to quote you on this because it is funny. Calling Will Tye the best rookie tight end last season isn't really saying a lot. I think the hardest part for Will Tye this past season was getting the opportunities to perform. Absolutely nobody thought of him at all for half the season. He isn't fast, he makes Jake Ballard look like the flash. Not tall at all, board experts have a height requirement of no less than 6'5 for the position.

 

Cure for the redzone offense is a running game.

[Allstarjim]

 

I needed to quote you on this because it is funny. Calling Will Tye the best rookie tight end last season isn't really saying a lot. I think the hardest part for Will Tye this past season was getting the opportunities to perform. Absolutely nobody thought of him at all for half the season. He isn't fast, he makes Jake Ballard look like the flash. Not tall at all, board experts have a height requirement of no less than 6'5 for the position.

 

Cure for the redzone offense is a running game.

 

Will Tye is faster than Jake Ballard. In fact, he's one of the faster TE's in the NFL. He ran a 4.57 on his pro day. Even considering that pro day's can be a little generous, the fastest recorded 40 at the combine by a TE last year was a 4.58. Jake Ballard was close to a 5.0. I'm not saying he's the answer, I agree with you that he isn't exactly the prototype at 6'2", but to say that they were 29th because of a lack of a running game is silly. There were shortcomings there but all you had to do watch watch the games to see how they struggled in the redzone passing the football as well.

 

There were 17 other passers with at least 36 pass attempts in the red zone with a better completion percentage than Eli (50%). Other guys with a 50% red zone completion %: Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Mallet, and full disclosure... Russell Wilson (who was terrible for much of the year).

 

Eli is looking up on this list at guys like Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, Alex Smith, Flacco, Matt Ryan, and Kirk Cousins.

 

Moreover, Eli LED THE NFL in interceptions in the red zone (5). He also led the NFL in INTs inside the 10 (3).

 

All this means is that Eli wasn't very good in the red zone this year. He was 9th in passing TD's in the redzone, which sounds ok until you realize he was tied for 5th in passing attempts in the redzone, and after him, there is a precipitous drop-off in attempts. Only 17 passers had more than 70 attempts in the red zone this season.

 

So the numbers really confirm what our eyes told us watching the games... they were great at moving the ball into the red zone, not so good once they got there.

 

I do agree that getting a better running game would be helpful in this area. I may be in the minority, but I'd like to see the Giants draft a RB sometime around the 4th or later, or address the position in free agency. I like Jennings and Vereen but in terms of the running game it's really about Jennings. And Jennings has done a good job at times but he's not quite as dynamic a runner as would be ideal and he isn't as consistent. He's a good player who isn't necessarily what you would call a "weapon". And I think the Giants need a guy like that to help Eli. Plus we need depth at the position at right now we don't have it.

[Storm]

 

I needed to quote you on this because it is funny. Calling Will Tye the best rookie tight end last season isn't really saying a lot. I think the hardest part for Will Tye this past season was getting the opportunities to perform. Absolutely nobody thought of him at all for half the season. He isn't fast, he makes Jake Ballard look like the flash. Not tall at all, board experts have a height requirement of no less than 6'5 for the position.

 

Cure for the redzone offense is a running game.

 

It's not saying a real lot but he performed and he performed at a level a lot higher than anyone expected. We all like to hate on Reese, myself included, for his lack of finding diamonds in the rough that put up numbers as far as undrafted free agents but I have to give credit where it's due on Will Tye. He looked good in limited action. And he showed that plays could be designed to go to him...some of his red zone touchdown grabs were quite effective playcalls. I think he only had 3, but I don't recall that many targets down there for him. Maybe there should have been more.

[Tempest]

 

Will Tye is faster than Jake Ballard. In fact, he's one of the faster TE's in the NFL. He ran a 4.57 on his pro day. Even considering that pro day's can be a little generous, the fastest recorded 40 at the combine by a TE last year was a 4.58. Jake Ballard was close to a 5.0. I'm not saying he's the answer, I agree with you that he isn't exactly the prototype at 6'2", but to say that they were 29th because of a lack of a running game is silly. There were shortcomings there but all you had to do watch watch the games to see how they struggled in the redzone passing the football as well.

 

There were 17 other passers with at least 36 pass attempts in the red zone with a better completion percentage than Eli (50%). Other guys with a 50% red zone completion %: Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Mallet, and full disclosure... Russell Wilson (who was terrible for much of the year).

 

Eli is looking up on this list at guys like Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, Alex Smith, Flacco, Matt Ryan, and Kirk Cousins.

 

Moreover, Eli LED THE NFL in interceptions in the red zone (5). He also led the NFL in INTs inside the 10 (3).

 

All this means is that Eli wasn't very good in the red zone this year. He was 9th in passing TD's in the redzone, which sounds ok until you realize he was tied for 5th in passing attempts in the redzone, and after him, there is a precipitous drop-off in attempts. Only 17 passers had more than 70 attempts in the red zone this season.

 

So the numbers really confirm what our eyes told us watching the games... they were great at moving the ball into the red zone, not so good once they got there.

 

I do agree that getting a better running game would be helpful in this area. I may be in the minority, but I'd like to see the Giants draft a RB sometime around the 4th or later, or address the position in free agency. I like Jennings and Vereen but in terms of the running game it's really about Jennings. And Jennings has done a good job at times but he's not quite as dynamic a runner as would be ideal and he isn't as consistent. He's a good player who isn't necessarily what you would call a "weapon". And I think the Giants need a guy like that to help Eli. Plus we need depth at the position at right now we don't have it.

 

When I say Will Tye is faster than Jake Ballard I'm talking about game time not combine and half jokingly too. Honestly if his frame wasn't the block of humanity that he is, he would look faster on TV.

 

I'd be shocked if they drafted another Rb, especially a late rounder. Only way I see them going Rb hunting is if they find a complete RB with the numbers to back it up. I guarantee you the running game will cure the red zone problems. 43 rushing attempts in the redzone not counting Eli of course. Less than half of those rushing carries were inside the 10.

 

I'm not a big fan of Qb comparisons, especially when we doing stat breakdowns.

BTW, most of those other QB's you mentioned as a comparison to Eli Manning in the redzone didn't throw the ball as much when in the redzone. Other guys he is looking up at on the list who threw it more are Rodgers, Brady and Palmer.

[Lughead]

the coaching staff according to Giants .com

 

HEAD COACH Ben McAdoo Head Coach

 

OFFENSE

Offensive Coordinator

Assistant Offensive Line Coach

Offensive Line

Quarterbacks

Wide Receivers

Tight Ends

Running Backs

Offensive Assistant

 

DEFENSE

Defensive Coordinator

Defensive Assistant

Secondary/Cornerbacks

Secondary/Safeties

Linebackers

Defensive Line

 

SPECIAL TEAMS

Special Teams Coordinator

Assistant Special Teams Coach

 

STRENGTH AND CONDITIONING

Strength and Conditioning

Assistant Strength and Conditioning

Strength and Conditioning Assistant

 

So nothing is really set in stone save Spags. It sure looks like Ben is cleaning house.

[CrazedDogs]

I believe the strongest factor in the red zone is the offensive line. And obviously the Giants OL has not been very good the last few years.

 

Without the threat of the running game, I would not read much into Eli's spike in Ints down near the goal line.

[Sephiroth]

the coaching staff according to Giants .com

 

HEAD COACH Ben McAdoo Head Coach

 

OFFENSE

Offensive Coordinator

Assistant Offensive Line Coach

Offensive Line

Quarterbacks

Wide Receivers

Tight Ends

Running Backs

Offensive Assistant

 

DEFENSE

Defensive Coordinator

Defensive Assistant

Secondary/Cornerbacks

Secondary/Safeties

Linebackers

Defensive Line

 

SPECIAL TEAMS

Special Teams Coordinator

Assistant Special Teams Coach

 

STRENGTH AND CONDITIONING

Strength and Conditioning

Assistant Strength and Conditioning

Strength and Conditioning Assistant

 

So nothing is really set in stone save Spags. It sure looks like Ben is cleaning house.

 

 

Honestly, I think that's awesome. He's forging his own way instead of trying to be Coughlin II.

 

Plus, when was the last time Robert Nunn or Pat Flaherty developed anyone who wasn't a first-round draft pick? It's pretty easy to make something out of Ereck Flowers or Weston Richburg, but the Eric Hermanns and Mitch Petruses of the team never even amounted to backups.

 

The best part about the housecleaning? JR has no more excuses. Even Palmieri is gone (thank God).

[BlueInCanada]

 

 

Honestly, I think that's awesome. He's forging his own way instead of trying to be Coughlin II.

 

Plus, when was the last time Robert Nunn or Pat Flaherty developed anyone who wasn't a first-round draft pick? It's pretty easy to make something out of Ereck Flowers or Weston Richburg, but the Eric Hermanns and Mitch Petruses of the team never even amounted to backups.

 

The best part about the housecleaning? JR has no more excuses. Even Palmieri is gone (thank God).

 

Unless he's planning on being the next Belichick, I hope his way is more Coughlin II than any other coach in this league.

[Lughead]

 

Unless he's planning on being the next Belichick, I hope his way is more Coughlin II than any other coach in this league.

hope he isn't going to be Chimp Kelly II

[Sephiroth]

 

Unless he's planning on being the next Belichick, I hope his way is more Coughlin II than any other coach in this league.

I could do without the last 4 years of Coughlin.

[Iceman_NYG]

@ Drizzle - I agree with most of the things you said but as CrazedDogs mentioned - the key to a good redzone efficiency is and will always remain the Offensive Line - and that was where we were possibly one of the worst. As you said, once you run out of real estate it also makes it that much more easier for the defense to rush you and contain the backfield easily. Creativity in playcalling was definitely necessary and something that we have solely lacked and that's all on McAdoo. A shovel pass to Vereen would have been a beautiful call but no...it was always those fade routes or lasers to Beckham. Part of the reason Eli had those turnovers was because defenses just knew we wouldn't do anything else!!! It was never going to impose authority on the LOS or use some trickery using the TE etc. We need creativity. The pass to Olsen on third and short for the TD was a thing of beauty that the Panthers did against us - totally made us look stupid as fuck as did the Cards make the Packers look last weekend.

[NightFire]

hope he isn't going to be Chimp Kelly II

 

He should get his strength program though. That is something he did right. Hell Bradford was mostly healthy which is a miracle.

[Lughead]

the coaching staff according to Giants .com

 

HEAD COACH Ben McAdoo Head Coach

 

OFFENSE

Offensive Coordinator

Assistant Offensive Line Coach

Offensive Line

Quarterbacks

Wide Receivers

Tight Ends

Running Backs

Offensive Assistant

 

DEFENSE

Defensive Coordinator

Defensive Assistant

Secondary/Cornerbacks

Secondary/Safeties

Linebackers

Defensive Line

 

SPECIAL TEAMS

Special Teams Coordinator

Assistant Special Teams Coach

 

STRENGTH AND CONDITIONING

Strength and Conditioning

Assistant Strength and Conditioning

Strength and Conditioning Assistant

 

So nothing is really set in stone save Spags. It sure looks like Ben is cleaning house.

 

LINK

 

McAdoo’s coaching staff has yet to take full shape, but it is already clear it will not resemble Coughlin’s crew. McAdoo wanted to add former Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin to work with the quarterbacks, but Philbin was hired by the Colts. Mike Sullivan, a Coughlin favorite, is expected to be promoted to offensive coordinator from quarterbacks coach. For a new quarterbacks coach, McAdoo, according to FOX Sports, may turn to Frank Cignetti, the former Rams offensive coordinator. Cignetti was a coach at Indiana University of Pennsylvania when McAdoo was a student at the school. Offensive assistant Ryan Roeder, a former quarterback at Albany, is an in-house candidate for the quarterbacks coach role.

Elsewhere on McAdoo’s staff, David Merritt is expected to return as safeties coach — the only survivor from all 12 of Coughlin’s years with the Giants. Sean Ryan (receivers) and Larry Izzo (assistant special teams) left to work for the Texans and Jim Herrmann (linebackers) took the same role with the Colts. Pat Flaherty (offensive line) is not expected to return. Robert Nunn (defensive line) will interview with the Titans. Jerry Palmieri (strength and conditioning) was with Coughlin in Jacksonville and since 2004 with the Giants but will not return. The Giants were beset by injuries once again in 2015 and filled injured reserve with key players.

[Herc]

> Ben mcadoo

> mike Sullivan

> Steve spagnuolo

 

"This will not resemble coughlins crew"

[Lughead]

> Ben mcadoo

> mike Sullivan

> Steve spagnuolo

 

"This will not resemble coughlins crew"

If you add in David Merritt that is it. The rest of the coaches will/should be new.

[Herc]

Typically when you fire a coach the entire staff is new

[Tempest]

Typically when you fire a coach the entire staff is new

 

Nobody was fired. This is more of a transition than anything else

[GA4M]

@ Drizzle - I agree with most of the things you said but as CrazedDogs mentioned - the key to a good redzone efficiency is and will always remain the Offensive Line - and that was where we were possibly one of the worst. As you said, once you run out of real estate it also makes it that much more easier for the defense to rush you and contain the backfield easily. Creativity in playcalling was definitely necessary and something that we have solely lacked and that's all on McAdoo. A shovel pass to Vereen would have been a beautiful call but no...it was always those fade routes or lasers to Beckham. Part of the reason Eli had those turnovers was because defenses just knew we wouldn't do anything else!!! It was never going to impose authority on the LOS or use some trickery using the TE etc. We need creativity. The pass to Olsen on third and short for the TD was a thing of beauty that the Panthers did against us - totally made us look stupid as fuck as did the Cards make the Packers look last weekend.

That's where a good QB will just toss it out of bounds instead of forcing the the ball into a spot he shouldn't have. better to take 3 pts on a FG than force a pick!

[Herc]

 

Nobody was fired. This is more of a transition than anything else

Tom coughlin was fired. He did not want to leave

[Tempest]

Tom coughlin was fired. He did not want to leave

 

I think he wanted out. He just got tired of the bullshit and resigned. We have heard many times over the years that Tom Coughlin doesn't pay attention to the media but there is only so much you can tune out and it doesn't help when you start hearing that bullshit from management.

 

Over the last four years he has had to change his offensive and defensive coordinator, lost players in free agency that were replaced with lesser talent, taken the blame for the last two years and most likely would have had to go up to management and fight for a job he did the least to lose? Half the problems with the team is on Jerry Reese and he got a pass every one of those years while everyone threw another log on the fire Tom Coughlin sat on. Twelve years is a damn good long run in New York as a Head Coach in any sport and the greedy SOB that I am wishes it could have been Sixteen.

[GA4M]

 

I think he wanted out. He just got tired of the bullshit and resigned. We have heard many times over the years that Tom Coughlin doesn't pay attention to the media but there is only so much you can tune out and it doesn't help when you start hearing that bullshit from management.

 

Over the last four years he has had to change his offensive and defensive coordinator, lost players in free agency that were replaced with lesser talent, taken the blame for the last two years and most likely would have had to go up to management and fight for a job he did the least to lose? Half the problems with the team is on Jerry Reese and he got a pass every one of those years while everyone threw another log on the fire Tom Coughlin sat on. Twelve years is a damn good long run in New York as a Head Coach in any sport and the greedy SOB that I am wishes it could have been Sixteen.

I've thought this for the last two years, there's just been too many issues for him to fix the last several years.