The countdown begins.

[Mr. P]

It seems like we all agree Saquon deserves to be paid more, but we all don’t agree the giants should pay him what he deserves. 

[BlueInCanada]

2 minutes ago, The P said:

It seems like we all agree Saquon deserves to be paid more, but we all don’t agree the giants should pay him what he deserves. 

I believe he deserves to be paid better like all the other RBs out there getting the shaft in the current market. 

I also believe Schoen or any GM has every right to stick to whatever the market dictates. 

Something is going to give at some point. 

[GorillaNJ]

20 minutes ago, The P said:

 

ok so it’s the high school coaches then?  

yes, the shying away from running backs is being reflected in high school.    

[GorillaNJ]

2 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I believe he deserves to be paid better like all the other RBs out there getting the shaft in the current market. 

I also believe Schoen or any GM has every right to stick to whatever the market dictates. 

Something is going to give at some point. 

If Schoen went and blew an additional $5M of cap space everyone would be saying how dumb that is.    

[BlueInCanada]

35 minutes ago, GorillaNJ said:

If Schoen went and blew an additional $5M of cap space everyone would be saying how dumb that is.    

Not really, considering next year the cap is going up and we are losing some major contracts off the team.

Which is why I'm still confused about the 1-2 million dollar gap.

But both sides held firm.

[Herc]

45 minutes ago, The P said:

It seems like we all agree Saquon deserves to be paid more, but we all don’t agree the giants should pay him what he deserves. 

I’m more concerned about going past 2 years.  
 

the per annual is probably too low.  Rb market seemed to go from overvalued for years to undervalued the year all the wrs salary skyrocketed

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, The P said:

So you guys do agree he should be paid more?

I think the three contracts that were on the table were fair and he should have signed one. We'll see if his gamble pays off.

[BlueInCanada]

1 minute ago, Sephiroth said:

I think the three contracts that were on the table were fair and he should have signed one. We'll see if his gamble pays off.

Echos my sentiment as well.

He deserves more, but it's not like the Giants offered him a 2 million dollar contract and he has to beg for leftovers in the facility cafeteria.

A two year deal at an 22 million AAV would of atleast given him some security from injuries and he could get a third contract.

Now he's risking it for a biscuit. 

[Mr. P]

3 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Echos my sentiment as well.

He deserves more, but it's not like the Giants offered him a 2 million dollar contract and he has to beg for leftovers in the facility cafeteria.

A two year deal at an 22 million AAV would of atleast given him some security from injuries and he could get a third contract.

Now he's risking it for a biscuit. 

 

he probably would have taken a deal with 22mil AAV. 

[Herc]

I would’ve done two years at whatever the two tags equaled guaranteed.  Rolling the dice on the second year is mitigated by the fact that it’s in the team’s best interest that he runs hard this year without worrying about hurting himself before another FA year

[Dragon]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

How has he not been offered his value?  He already earned the top rookie RB contract money and had two great seasons, and three mediocre-to-bad ones.  He finished in the top ten in scrimmage yards twice in that time period.

Those rookie contracts are locked in;  if I was Shoen I wouldn't be basing my contract negotiations off the Falcons' bad drafting strategy.

Jesus Seph...  he was offered UNDER the total guarantees for the 2 franchise tags for the majority of the negotiations. That's the baseline which, oddly enough, is $400k more than Robinson's rookie contract. Locked in for the rookies or not, the starting point for negotiations is right there and no less than that. Why would anyone in that position accept less? Or are you advocating for the next newhire straight out of college to come in to your job and equal/surpass your salary despite the disparity in experience?

I'm guessing you're calling 2019 one of his "mediocre" years? You don't believe that DJ taking over at QB and turning the ball over as much as he did wasn't a part of everyone's performance being down? And yet in that "mediocre" year Barkley still went over 1000 rushing and 1400 from scrimmage with 8 TDs on 83 less touches than his top 2 statistical seasons. To state again... those Judge years aside (2020 ACL Injury/2021 ACL Recovery and High Ankle Sprain) he averages 1707 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs. All with a piss poor offensive line and a coaching philosophy that just hit the 21st century in Spring 2022. This should've been simple. 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

2 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

The issue is more of the fact team can control 7 years of a player without any real negotiation and the player can't do much besides sit out and hurt his career.

4 year rookie wage scale was a great start with the fifth year option that a team can sign. 

But then two years of tags and that's an entire RBs career practically in the NFL.

Barkley is just a product of a declining market couple with this fact. 

It's a shame really because he should be making close to 15+ million in terms of difference making and win differential with him on the field.

A number RBs should be making that, but I doubt we ever see it again with how pass happy the league is.

I think the NFL should adopt MLB or NBA salary structures with a real luxury cap.  These guys are modern day gladiators and if I was good in all of those sports I would pick MLB and/or the NBA in a heartbeat.  Possibly 15-year careers as opposed to 3-5 years in the NFL for average players.  Fewer injuries and you will be better able to walk and sit down without impairment in your 50s.  One of the jokes about NFL coaches was that you could spot them by how they walked.  This wide, rocking side to side walk because for the most part their knees and ankles are gone.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

2 hours ago, GorillaNJ said:

yes, the shying away from running backs is being reflected in high school.    

My nephew is 6'6" and his Catholic HS coach was playing him as a center... not even as a small forward and/or at worst power forward.  I told his father (who is a basketball head and knows) and the boy Michael that he needed to touch the ball more and be involved in the offense.  Off guard or small forward were his positions.  Face the basket and stop backing up, college and/or NBA big men would eat him up.  Magic did the center position for a series or two to give Jabbar a rest.  He did not do the whole game, much less a half/quarter.  My nephew was not scouted because how many 6'6" centers are there?  Thankfully he just graduated from the Rochester Institute of Technology as an environmental engineer.  He went the academic route.  Good for him.   It is rough for kids, because the coaches play so many kids for their own needs and out of position.

[Sephiroth]

2 hours ago, Dragon said:

Jesus Seph...  he was offered UNDER the total guarantees for the 2 franchise tags for the majority of the negotiations. That's the baseline which, oddly enough, is $400k more than Robinson's rookie contract. Locked in for the rookies or not, the starting point for negotiations is right there and no less than that. Why would anyone in that position accept less? Or are you advocating for the next newhire straight out of college to come in to your job and equal/surpass your salary despite the disparity in experience?

I'm guessing you're calling 2019 one of his "mediocre" years? You don't believe that DJ taking over at QB and turning the ball over as much as he did wasn't a part of everyone's performance being down? And yet in that "mediocre" year Barkley still went over 1000 rushing and 1400 from scrimmage with 8 TDs on 83 less touches than his top 2 statistical seasons. To state again... those Judge years aside (2020 ACL Injury/2021 ACL Recovery and High Ankle Sprain) he averages 1707 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs. All with a piss poor offensive line and a coaching philosophy that just hit the 21st century in Spring 2022. This should've been simple. 

It's my understanding that he was offered less guaranteed money, but with much more incentives.  I think that is more than fair given his very extensive injury history, and the fact that he's also proven to be ineffective when playing dinged up.  Why would the team pay additional guaranteed money compared to two years on a tag without a guarantee that you're getting extra in performance and games played?  That just sounds like bad business to me.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  

[Mr. P]

3 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

It's my understanding that he was offered less guaranteed money, but with much more incentives.  I think that is more than fair given his very extensive injury history, and the fact that he's also proven to be ineffective when playing dinged up.  Why would the team pay additional guaranteed money compared to two years on a tag without a guarantee that you're getting extra in performance and games played?  That just sounds like bad business to me.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  

 

Where did you get that understanding from?

 

The information posted shows they upped the guaranteed money and lowered the base salary. 

[Dragon]

16 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

It's my understanding that he was offered less guaranteed money, but with much more incentives.  I think that is more than fair given his very extensive injury history, and the fact that he's also proven to be ineffective when playing dinged up.  Why would the team pay additional guaranteed money compared to two years on a tag without a guarantee that you're getting extra in performance and games played?  That just sounds like bad business to me.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  

Yea idk where that info came from. The story out is that the most we offered was $19.5M until like 2 days before the deadline to negotiate and then Schoen upped the guarantees to just over $22M but dropped the AAV. 

 

We're really only disagreeing cause from Saquon's pov there's no reason to accept anything less in guarantees than the sum of the 2 tags as there's no one else on the team that should be tagged over him next off-season, so at least $22M, but the FO had other views. 

 

Long story short, this is a gamble for both sides and I hope it works out in everyone's favor cause the last thing any of us want to see is Saquon leaving pissed and going right to Philly where he'd have the best OL in football. 

[Nas]

8 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I actually did say the same thing about Daniel Jones. 

I'm not saying Barkley isn't a good player (he is), but I feel like the team offered him his value and he decided not to take it.  Barkley had an amazing rookie season, but every year since has inarguably been worse.  His amazing run against the Eagles was five years ago;  he hasn't had over 350 receiving yards a season in the past three years.  When was the last time he juked three defenders... hell, when was the last time he juked one?  He's a nice player but not a generational talent.  His numbers aren't even close to the Tomlinsons and Petersons of the world. 

His OL was really, really bad... but how  many times in that 2021 season did we all post in those game day threads, "the hole was there for Barkley but he bounced outside for a 2-yard loss instead?"  Until this year, his vision has sucked, and we've all said it.  Analysts were saying the guy was washed 12 months ago but now we're expecting the team to break the bank for him? 

I think Shoen is doing the right thing; he's essentially telling Barkley, "this is your value, if you think you're worth more, prove it again and  we'll talk." 

How has he not been offered his value?  He already earned the top rookie RB contract money and had two great seasons, and three mediocre-to-bad ones.  He finished in the top ten in scrimmage yards twice in that time period.

Those rookie contracts are locked in;  if I was Shoen I wouldn't be basing my contract negotiations off the Falcons' bad drafting strategy. 

I think the difference too is that RBs are more or less washed nowadays by their 7th-8th season.  If you go and look at the Sanders, Thomas, etc. years, those guys played 10, 11, 12 seasons and were still highly productive in their later years (Barry Sanders had 2k yards rushing the year before he hung it up).  I don't know if it's the new supplements or new training regimens or whatever, but RBs just don't last that long anymore. 

 

For the record, it's fine that you all disagree with me, but I think Shoen is absolutely doing the smart thing.  We'll see in two years. 

I think it has to do with defenders being freaks... bigger.. faster stronger... so the RBs body takes a toll.   

[Nas]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

It's my understanding that he was offered less guaranteed money, but with much more incentives.  I think that is more than fair given his very extensive injury history, and the fact that he's also proven to be ineffective when playing dinged up.  Why would the team pay additional guaranteed money compared to two years on a tag without a guarantee that you're getting extra in performance and games played?  That just sounds like bad business to me.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  

Because there's more to a player like Barkely than just yards.    But like he said "it is what it is".  

[jranieli]

 

[BlueInCanada]

10 minutes ago, jranieli said:

 

Yeah I just dont understand what Barkley was gambling with all this time.

From the reports the first contract was the 19.5 million guaranteed deal, without the years being known.

The second deal was rumored to be slightly lower but with another year.

Did Barkley and his agent think the Giants were just going to up the deal by a few million per year because of the "lulz" in the final hour?

They set the tone for what they were willing to pay this year.

Once again the team has all the power with the tag, and should be something the NFLPA needs to discuss.

Like maybe if your rookie fifth year gets picked up you cant be tagged the year after.

[Dragon]

18 minutes ago, jranieli said:

 

https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/1679257119499907072?t=lXld-aa6Pd09BhYhwZ818Q&s=19