The countdown begins.

[BlueInCanada]

 

[BlueInCanada]

From everything I've read he was offered all three contracts that went down in value every time.

What did he think would happen?

 

[Herc]

41 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

Blame the league. It’sa Shame the rb position has gone so undervalued. My childhood memories are built around guys like Barry sanders, Emmit smith, Thurman Thomas, etc. wouldn’t be the same and not sure the nfl without those types of players is fun. But as a Gm you can’t break a trend like this and be stuck with a huge contract for a position the league isn’t paying like that. While they’re paying other positions we suddenly can’t afford. It sucks, and honestly I think Saquon and Jacob’s are doing the right thing. They just don’t have much leverage. 

They all fall off and get cut 

[Dragon]

10 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

From everything I've read he was offered all three contracts that went down in value every time.

What did he think would happen?

 

Depends on what was actually offered. Ima keep harping on the Corey Davis number and the fact that despite the aav being lower, Bijan Robinson getting more guaranteed than Saquon was offered for the majority of the negotiation process. 

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, Virginia Giant said:

Blame the league. It’sa Shame the rb position has gone so undervalued. My childhood memories are built around guys like Barry sanders, Emmit smith, Thurman Thomas, etc. wouldn’t be the same and not sure the nfl without those types of players is fun. But as a Gm you can’t break a trend like this and be stuck with a huge contract for a position the league isn’t paying like that. While they’re paying other positions we suddenly can’t afford. It sucks, and honestly I think Saquon and Jacob’s are doing the right thing. They just don’t have much leverage. 

Look at the RBs this year.

Mixon took a paycut to stay with the team.

Jacobs who is probably a top three back is in the same situation.  

I wouldn't be surprised to see a mass exodus of talent from the RB position as college players see what happens to them in the NFL and switch to WR/slot. 

RB may go the way as the FB with the rise of WR/RBs now.

[BlueInCanada]

Schefter put out a tweet.

There hasn't been a RB to sign a long term contract worth 10 million or more since 2021 with Chubb.  

 

[Dragon]

4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Schefter put out a tweet.

There hasn't been a RB to sign a long term contract worth 10 million or more since 2021 with Chubb.  

 

Check social media. It won't amount to much with the CBA not coming up for a while but the RBs around the NFL are all collectively pissed and voicing it. 

[BlueInCanada]

28 minutes ago, Dragon said:

Check social media. It won't amount to much with the CBA not coming up for a while but the RBs around the NFL are all collectively pissed and voicing it. 

And that's fine but I don't see a solution.

What the NFLPA says that RBs deserve "x" amount? 

Then WRs will be the next saying they need "x+1" then DEs will want "x*2" then your back to square one.

If anything it would take a veto by college players to do make any drastic change.

Have a whole years worth of RBs in the draft declare as TEs or WRs. 

Unfortunately not even guys like Barkley can buck the trend that RB is going.

[Iceman_NYG]

13 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I like Barkley, but he's always injured. I'm not a fan of throwing bad money at good... he has a value, offer him his value, and if he refuses let him walk.  Dude's not a savior;  if he was we wouldn't have had losing seasons 4 out of the 5 years he's been here. 

Barkley is not the reason opponents put up 35 pts when we make 25. Barkley is not the reason Giants were dead last in TO differential, sacks etc. If anything - if there is one player who has put people in the stands besides OBJ on a regular basis its been Barkley. Without Barkley we are a a far larger shit show than we have been those forgetful years under Judge, Shurmur etc. Maybe the Giants want him to sign the franchise tag this year and when the cap goes up next year - offer him the contract or maybe even do so mid season in 2023. But if Barkley tears it up this season - and I have a feeling he will, and then just because we pissed him off signs with a different contender next year Ill be super pissed. 

[Mr. P]

9 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

I just want to know the source because I havent read this anywhere else.

 

 

He is the source.  He’s a source.  He’s a reporter for the post.  He is also the author of that ny post article. 

[Mr. P]

Garafolo confirming Dunleavy’s report

 

 

 

 

[Herc]

Guess they figured they worked around the tag all off-season and that’s all they want him on 

[GorillaNJ]

Saquon has been making quite a bit of money as the 2nd overall pick, more than most RB's make coming out of college.     The Giants offered him significantly more than dollar amount than the franchise tag gives him and he turned it down.

For his sake, I hope that he stays healthy all season, puts up similar numbers to last year and the Giants do not hit him with the franchise tag again.  Then let Saquon Free Agency market see where his value lands, perhaps the Giants offer ends up the best one still.    

[Mr. P]

31 minutes ago, GorillaNJ said:

Saquon has been making quite a bit of money as the 2nd overall pick, more than most RB's make coming out of college.     The Giants offered him significantly more than dollar amount than the franchise tag gives him and he turned it down.

For his sake, I hope that he stays healthy all season, puts up similar numbers to last year and the Giants do not hit him with the franchise tag again.  Then let Saquon Free Agency market see where his value lands, perhaps the Giants offer ends up the best one still.    

 

They didn’t offer him significantly more than the franchise tag gives him.  

[GorillaNJ]

6 minutes ago, The P said:

 

They didn’t offer him significantly more than the franchise tag gives him.  

$22 million guaranteed is a significantly more than $10 million guaranteed

[Mr. P]

3 minutes ago, GorillaNJ said:

$22 million guaranteed is a significantly more than $10 million guaranteed

 

22 million 2 tags, which is what they intend to do if he wasn’t signed like long term.   
 

They weren’t offering him 22mil for 1 season. 
 

I don’t know how many years they offered, but imagine being on a 2 year 22 million guaranteed, and the long term offer is 3 years 22 guaranteed. 
 

 

[Sephiroth]

20 hours ago, The P said:

 

 

You could say the same thing about Daniel Jones. 

I actually did say the same thing about Daniel Jones. 

20 hours ago, Nas said:

That’s not a fair assessment, Seph.   Didn’t we have the worst or near the worst OL in football?   
 

Someone please pull up the Youtube clip of Barkley’s run against the Eagles where all Joe Buck could say was “Incredible.. Incredible”.

Saquon catches the ball too… the list of #2 WRs making more snd fucking Evan butter hands Ingram making $41M+ over 3 years makes this argument ridiculous.

This is a passing league which means teams are focusing on DBs… Let them try to stop our running game.

Also I never hold a player being injured as a negative…. That’s part of the game.   You really expect a guy like Barkley (and even DJ) not to get hurt behind whatever OLs we’ve put in front of them?

I'm not saying Barkley isn't a good player (he is), but I feel like the team offered him his value and he decided not to take it.  Barkley had an amazing rookie season, but every year since has inarguably been worse.  His amazing run against the Eagles was five years ago;  he hasn't had over 350 receiving yards a season in the past three years.  When was the last time he juked three defenders... hell, when was the last time he juked one?  He's a nice player but not a generational talent.  His numbers aren't even close to the Tomlinsons and Petersons of the world. 

His OL was really, really bad... but how  many times in that 2021 season did we all post in those game day threads, "the hole was there for Barkley but he bounced outside for a 2-yard loss instead?"  Until this year, his vision has sucked, and we've all said it.  Analysts were saying the guy was washed 12 months ago but now we're expecting the team to break the bank for him? 

I think Shoen is doing the right thing; he's essentially telling Barkley, "this is your value, if you think you're worth more, prove it again and  we'll talk." 

18 hours ago, Dragon said:

Only 1 season he's played less than 13 games and that's cause you can't play on a torn acl.

 

There... right there is the problem. He hasn't been offered his value. He's been offered LESS guaranteed money than the top rookie RB contract. That's less than the 2 franchise tags. Why would anyone take that?

 

Be serious. You don't even believe that. 

How has he not been offered his value?  He already earned the top rookie RB contract money and had two great seasons, and three mediocre-to-bad ones.  He finished in the top ten in scrimmage yards twice in that time period.

Those rookie contracts are locked in;  if I was Shoen I wouldn't be basing my contract negotiations off the Falcons' bad drafting strategy. 

12 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

Blame the league. It’sa Shame the rb position has gone so undervalued. My childhood memories are built around guys like Barry sanders, Emmit smith, Thurman Thomas, etc. wouldn’t be the same and not sure the nfl without those types of players is fun. But as a Gm you can’t break a trend like this and be stuck with a huge contract for a position the league isn’t paying like that. While they’re paying other positions we suddenly can’t afford. It sucks, and honestly I think Saquon and Jacob’s are doing the right thing. They just don’t have much leverage. 

I think the difference too is that RBs are more or less washed nowadays by their 7th-8th season.  If you go and look at the Sanders, Thomas, etc. years, those guys played 10, 11, 12 seasons and were still highly productive in their later years (Barry Sanders had 2k yards rushing the year before he hung it up).  I don't know if it's the new supplements or new training regimens or whatever, but RBs just don't last that long anymore. 

 

For the record, it's fine that you all disagree with me, but I think Shoen is absolutely doing the smart thing.  We'll see in two years. 

[Mr. P]

The New York Post is reporting that the Giants’ final offer was a 3-year contract with an annual value between $11-11.5 million with $22-23 million in guaranteed money. The paper says both sides were within $1-2 million, but could not close the gap.
 

 

 

 

 

 

a 3 year deal with 22 million guaranteed is not “significantly more” than 2 tags worth 22 million guaranteed. 

[GorillaNJ]

14 minutes ago, The P said:

 

22 million 2 tags, which is what they intend to do if he wasn’t signed like long term.   
 

They weren’t offering him 22mil for 1 season. 
 

I don’t know how many years they offered, but imagine being on a 2 year 22 million guaranteed, and the long term offer is 3 years 22 guaranteed. 
 

 

$22 million guaranteed is still a lot of money...    he can come out first day of training camp and have his knee explode ending his career.  If that happens now, he left $12 million sitting on the floor.   

The Giants can still go franchise tag on him again next year, and I think that number is right around that $12 million.   So Barkley is taking the bet that he will be healthy the next 2 seasons and then will get to test free agency as a 28 year old RB.

I guess the thing he is avoiding by not accepting that contract offer, is the Giants franchise tagging him in 2 years from now.   (I do not know enough about the particulars of the tags to say if that is the truth)

[Mr. P]

Just now, GorillaNJ said:

$22 million guaranteed is still a lot of money...    he can come out first day of training camp and have his knee explode ending his career.  If that happens now, he left $12 million sitting on the floor.   

The Giants can still go franchise tag on him again next year, and I think that number is right around that $12 million.   So Barkley is taking the bet that he will be healthy the next 2 seasons and then will get to test free agency as a 28 year old RB.

I guess the thing he is avoiding by not accepting that contract offer, is the Giants franchise tagging him in 2 years from now.   (I do not know enough about the particulars of the tags to say if that is the truth)

 

 

yeah I never said it wasn’t a lot of money, I said it wasn’t significantly more than the 2 tags. 

[GorillaNJ]

4 minutes ago, The P said:

 

 

yeah I never said it wasn’t a lot of money, I said it wasn’t significantly more than the 2 tags. 

But, that second tag is not guaranteed if he gets hurt this year or if he comes out and has a shit as fuck season.   They offered him $22 million and he got $10 instead.

[Mr. P]

3 minutes ago, GorillaNJ said:

But, that second tag is not guaranteed if he gets hurt this year or if he comes out and has a shit as fuck season.   They offered him $22 million and he got $10 instead.

But the second tag is why the number is 22. 

[Sephiroth]

2 hours ago, GorillaNJ said:

But, that second tag is not guaranteed if he gets hurt this year or if he comes out and has a shit as fuck season.   They offered him $22 million and he got $10 instead.

This was the point I was going to make as well. Dude could easily have another injury and miss 14 games, and he's left 12 million on the table.  

Some other things that have been missing from the conversation:

1. Among active RBs, Barkley has made the third most money in the league. Is there anyone here who thinks in the past five years he's been the third best player at his position?

2. The franchise tag is the average value of the top five players at their positions for the current year. By definition, Saquon is making better than top-5 money this year. 

I don't buy the "woe is Saquon, he's being mistreated" arguments. Dude has been paid very well for a long time, it's fair for the team to offer him his current value, they owe him nothing more.

[Mr. P]

We should all be able to agree he deserves to be paid more than Evan Engram. 

[BlueInCanada]

2 hours ago, The P said:

The New York Post is reporting that the Giants’ final offer was a 3-year contract with an annual value between $11-11.5 million with $22-23 million in guaranteed money. The paper says both sides were within $1-2 million, but could not close the gap.
 

 

 

 

 

 

a 3 year deal with 22 million guaranteed is not “significantly more” than 2 tags worth 22 million guaranteed. 

The only thing I see is that Bakley is gambling that the Giants will tag him.

He could of had three years of security. 

I dunno just doesn't seem right that Barkley wants to play against the market, it doesn't work out for players.