If things continue, would you:

[mastershake]

33 minutes ago, gmenroc said:

Jones is a tough call....we are playing ourselves out of the tip '23 QBs...so for that reason alone, an extension is a good idea.  I know we have Tyrod for another year, but if we continue to play well...we wouldn't have that high pick in '24 either.

If we can get Jones in top 15 money but not top 10, I think we sign him.  

Definitely get Barkley, Lawrence, Thomas, and McKinnny locked down as soon as possible.  Barkley 3-4 years.  The others 5+ years.  

I was thinking the real likelihood that we're likely not going to land Stroud, Bryce Jones, or Will Levis (who are looking like top 10 picks) puts us in a bit of a bind...Jones might be the only viable option at least for next year if we can get him for a reasonable amount.

A guy like Anthony Richardson or the kid from BYU could be interesting 2nd or 3rd round options. Anthony Richardson really took a step back this year, after coming into the season being considered a top 10 pick, but either of these guys might be viable 2nd/3rd round developmental options, sitting a year or two behind Jones.

[Mr. P]

1 minute ago, mastershake said:

I was thinking the real likelihood that we're likely not going to land Stroud, Bryce Jones, or Will Levis (who are looking like top 10 picks) puts us in a bit of a bind...Jones might be the only viable option at least for next year if we can get him for a reasonable amount.

A guy like Anthony Richardson or the kid from BYU could be interesting 2nd or 3rd round options. Anthony Richardson really took a step back this year, after coming into the season being considered a top 10 pick, but either of these guys might be viable 2nd/3rd round developmental options, sitting a year or two behind Jones.

 

It’s why I, never a “they should trade down” guy, really wanted them to trade down to pick up an extra first this year.  
 

ive been hammering the “we are going to improve just enough to put us out of reach of the good qbs” table. 

[Herc]

Look at the meta so far this year.  There’s a LOT of wins in this league with less than 200 yards passing.  Not sure an elite qb is necessary as long as the league is keeping the top of the defenses back like this 

[Mr. P]

2 minutes ago, Herc said:

Look at the meta so far this year.  There’s a LOT of wins in this league with less than 200 yards passing.  Not sure an elite qb is necessary as long as the league is keeping the top of the defenses back like this 

I feel like once the playoffs hit, the good qbs who can put up numbers seem to do more of the winning. 

[BlueInCanada]

44 minutes ago, The P said:

I feel like once the playoffs hit, the good qbs who can put up numbers seem to do more of the winning. 

This is usually the way.

Outside of having historic defenses like the Ravens or Bucs who only allowed 12 points a game you need a QB who can get you in scoring range and fast.

It's why I feel like QBs like Jones and Garrapololllolllolo they can get you to the playoffs but can they win you the whole thing? Probably not.

They fall within that "Hassleback" level of QB.

Good enough to start, not good enough to carry a team without having the league's best around them.

[mastershake]

Correction above *Bryce Young, not Bryce Jones.

On that note, another thing is I don't think Stroud and Jones are necessarily top tier QBs...Ohio State and Alabama famously can't produce NFL Starting Quarterbacks. Tua was okay I guess but he can't stay on the field. Fields looks marginal. I know these are only recent examples.

Will Levis has the best upside and NFL readiness if you ask me, especially if he can cut down on his INTs.

[Herc]

Gurley just “retired” after no one signed him last year or this year.  1st round pick, insanely productive, big second contract, cut, and washed in a 6 year span.  

[BlueInCanada]

4 hours ago, Herc said:

Gurley just “retired” after no one signed him last year or this year.  1st round pick, insanely productive, big second contract, cut, and washed in a 6 year span.  

To be fair coming out of college his knees were already a question mark, he went though two or three surgeries on them.

I don't think anyone seen Gurley making it past year 8 and he didn't even get there.

 

[mastershake]

8 hours ago, Herc said:

Gurley just “retired” after no one signed him last year or this year.  1st round pick, insanely productive, big second contract, cut, and washed in a 6 year span.  

Yeah that's why I'm my estimation, Barkley has a good 2-3 years left where he's in his prime.

Gurley also has a lot of tread on those tires by the time he sputtered out. Barkley missed like 20 games in the last 3 years.

[Sephiroth]

Actually, I think I'd give incentive-laden contracts to both Barkley and Jones, or have contracts with easy outs if they're hurt and/or when they both turn back into pumpkins. 

Dex Lawrence I think we're gonna have to pay, and hope he hates Minneapolis as a city. 

[mastershake]

Yeah I come back to that if a) they stay healthy, and b) keep performing at this level: If I'm Schoen I try to keep these guys, so as long as I'm not breaking the bank.

For instance, while Jones has been good, he doesn't warrant like a 4 year $150M contract. Or for Barkley, anything higher than $15M per year would probably be too much considering his injury history and age (26 next year).

Jones 3 years $54-60M

Barkley 4 years $60M.

[mastershake]

Small related sidenote. For some reason this had me looking up the Dave Brown era. I found it interesting that, for some strange reason after Dave Brown's awful 1996 year, his worst year at QB, apparently the Giants resigned him to a 3 year $13M contract (fairly sizable QB contract at the time).

WTF was George Young thinking????

He was then cut a year later.

[BlueInCanada]

I think they tag Jones at this point in time, he's playing well and above what a "reasonable" contract would be.

He's playing into the 25+ million a year range, something the Giants can't really commit to long term unless they want to lose out elsewhere.

The tag keeps him around another year while kicking the can down the road, plus still signing guys like Dexy/McKinney/Love/Thomas to new deals.

 

[Herc]

The more they win the more it makes sense to spend on a top rb

[boohyah]

27 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Small related sidenote. For some reason this had me looking up the Dave Brown era. I found it interesting that, for some strange reason after Dave Brown's awful 1996 year, his worst year at QB, apparently the Giants resigned him to a 3 year $13M contract (fairly sizable QB contract at the time).

WTF was George Young thinking????

He was then cut a year later.

There was always that hope he would pan out back then.

[mastershake]

33 minutes ago, boohyah said:

There was always that hope he would pan out back then.

It was an out of touch George Young thinking Dave Brown was magically going to pull a Phil Simms and be good by year 5-6 in the NFL.

DB had 3 full years as a starter, (plus 2 sitting behind Simms and Hoss), and not only did he suck, but he got WORSE over time.

Granted, he didn't have great talent around him, but still. We all saw how much better this team was once we got a half decent QB, Kerry Collins, in there.

[K3VIN]

Y’all drinking? Has his previous play been so bad that his check downs have you wanting to pay 30MM a year. 

[Herc]

I mean he’s clearly stating the exact numbers in his posts 

[Herc]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

It was an out of touch George Young thinking Dave Brown was magically going to pull a Phil Simms and be good by year 5-6 in the NFL.

DB had 3 full years as a starter, (plus 2 sitting behind Simms and Hoss), and not only did he suck, but he got WORSE over time.

Granted, he didn't have great talent around him, but still. We all saw how much better this team was once we got a half decent QB, Kerry Collins, in there.

I think this might also be chalked up to the era too.  Qbs got way more time back then before they got the hook

[mastershake]

41 minutes ago, K3VIN said:

Y’all drinking? Has his previous play been so bad that his check downs have you wanting to pay 30MM a year. 

Not that much. $20-25M, nothing more than 3 years, and structured so that you have an "out" in year 3 meaning you can cut him if necessary and still have considerably cap savings without much dead money. On the last point for instance, in Year 4 of Golladays contract has a cap hit of $21M, but we can save $14M in cap space by cutting him, and only have $7M in dead cap.

And keep in mind, the going FA rate for franchise QBs is like $35-50M per year, so Jones at $20-25M seems reasonable (again, if he continues, and if he plays at this level, plus the big factor for me is there's no clear alternative next year).

[mastershake]

43 minutes ago, Herc said:

I think this might also be chalked up to the era too.  Qbs got way more time back then before they got the hook

I get that part of it.  Mid-late 90's was sort of the end of that era. George Young in general never really adapted to the world of free agency in the 90's, plus the end of the era where you'd develop a QB over a ~5 yr span.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

5 hours ago, mastershake said:

Small related sidenote. For some reason this had me looking up the Dave Brown era. I found it interesting that, for some strange reason after Dave Brown's awful 1996 year, his worst year at QB, apparently the Giants resigned him to a 3 year $13M contract (fairly sizable QB contract at the time).

WTF was George Young thinking????

He was then cut a year later.

Young was so invested in that scum Dave Brown that the thinking of the time was that you resign your veterans above everything

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

4 hours ago, boohyah said:

There was always that hope he would pan out back then.

This

I never wanted a Duke QB

[Nas]

I swear this conversation about the person who should never be mentioned should stop... 

[Virginia Giant]

On 10/22/2022 at 7:56 PM, mastershake said:

Yeah that's why I'm my estimation, Barkley has a good 2-3 years left where he's in his prime.

Gurley also has a lot of tread on those tires by the time he sputtered out. Barkley missed like 20 games in the last 3 years.

Another thing to consider is if we're seeing an offensive shift in the NFL?  Herc mentioned it earlier, there is a focus on not being burned over the top.  After years of a passing first league, maybe there is going to be a shift to running the ball more, or screens / short passes.