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Judge back to NE.


BlueInCanada
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It was time for him to go, but honestly, he didn't get a fair shake here either.

I could see him having success with another team if he has a GM who's not a dumbass and isn't saddled with a QB he didn't pick. 

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 He needs to be groomed by a successful coach.  He was clearly a case of too much too soon.  Plus the wrong organization for him with too many sacred cows he did not pick like Jones and the former HC from the Brokebacks now his OC.  Also former Giants backup.  Not crying for him at all.  He should have stayed at NE before.

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2 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

 He needs to be groomed by a successful coach.  He was clearly a case of too much too soon.  Plus the wrong organization for him with too many sacred cows he did not pick like Jones and the former HC from the Brokebacks now his OC.  Also former Giants backup.  Not crying for him at all.  He should have stayed at NE before.

I'm pretty sure he learned a lot in his stint here.   I wasn't too crazy about all the mocking he got and certainly hated the "clown" memes I saw of him.    I defended him almost the entire season citing that a coach should be given a chance to succeed (or fail) and that he's had only one season under his belt.... the knives were out early last year when he's still trying to get it together... as most humans, he was rattled... and like you said there are a lot sacred cows there and the GM sucked and the organization was dysfunctional anyway... A lot of his missteps seem to be him withering under the barrage of criticism.... I wish him luck.   

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31 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

I still thought Judge would be successful until that off the rails press conference. 

He did unravel unfortunately but the barrage of insults had been underway for months.

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Judge dug his own hole and he didn't need any help.  Problems were evident and he had no solutions.  If anyone paid attention to the numerous news conferences the Giants have had over the last twenty years it would be understood that the draft & free agency is handled by consensus and the head coach is just as involved as ownership and the GM.

Should have fired Jason Garrett last January and promoted Freddie Kitchens to Offensive Coordinator.  Pounded the table for the Giants to bring back Colt McCoy last year, that signing should have happened before the start of free agency.

Glad Joe Judge is still in the NFL and hopefully he has learned something from these last two years and he learns more going forward.  His press conferences were bad and just got worse from inability to acknowledge failure to showing up on time for them.  I did appreciate Joe not crying after the game, the free medium soda might have helped.

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Joe Judge and Dave Gettleman both thought Mike Glennon was an upgrade over Colt McCoy. 

He's right to go back to New England. McDaniels had a similar fate in Denver and he went back and a few years later he's out on his own again. Judge can rehab his image the next few years and try again. He could go the college route also. He's young enough. 

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Headsets. Submarines. Imaginary free agents that wanted to come back. Oh and let's not forget that winning doesn't matter, it's the process that matters. Please. Dude had more issues than a shitty GM. We'll never hear from him again. 

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7 hours ago, boohyah said:

Joe Judge and Dave Gettleman both thought Mike Glennon was an upgrade over Colt McCoy. 

He's right to go back to New England. McDaniels had a similar fate in Denver and he went back and a few years later he's out on his own again. Judge can rehab his image the next few years and try again. He could go the college route also. He's young enough. 

Who thought taking an offense that functioned with a mobile QB would work with an immobile QB?  More likely they hoped this is the year Daniel Jones is healthy all season long and that didn't happen either.  I think the only reason why Glennon was considered is Jason Garrett.

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7 hours ago, BronxRik said:

Headsets. Submarines. Imaginary free agents that wanted to come back. Oh and let's not forget that winning doesn't matter, it's the process that matters. Please. Dude had more issues than a shitty GM. We'll never hear from him again. 

Results are the most overrated thing! 

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7 hours ago, BronxRik said:

Headsets. Submarines. Imaginary free agents that wanted to come back. Oh and let's not forget that winning doesn't matter, it's the process that matters. Please. Dude had more issues than a shitty GM. We'll never hear from him again. 

11 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Results are the most overrated thing! 

LOL, well..... that 'results vs. process' thing was one comment I didn't have any issue with. 

Valuing the process over immediate results is a mark of wisdom. 'Process over results' is something you'll hear over and over if you ever spend time with high achieving people. 

In Judge's case, maybe he just watched one too many TED Talks.... but parroting the point or not, he wasn't wrong about that. 

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It does seem to be a pretty common theme with coaches coming out of New England, they try to bring the culture of the Belichick to their new teams, but without his winning resume it is not easy to keep a team and fan base on board

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/12/sports/bill-belichick-coaching-tree-failures/#:~:text=The list%3A Romeo Crennel%2C Eric,in parts of 28 seasons.

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4 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

LOL, well..... that 'results vs. process' thing was one comment I didn't have any issue with. 

Valuing the process over immediate results is a mark of wisdom. 'Process over results' is something you'll hear over and over if you ever spend time with high achieving people. 

In Judge's case, maybe he just watched one too many TED Talks.... but parroting the point or not, he wasn't wrong about that. 

Agreed.   I, too, didn't have a problem with the comment.   But technically he was still earning his stripes and wasn't in a position to make it... in retrospect of course.   

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21 hours ago, Nas said:

I'm pretty sure he learned a lot in his stint here.   I wasn't too crazy about all the mocking he got and certainly hated the "clown" memes I saw of him.    I defended him almost the entire season citing that a coach should be given a chance to succeed (or fail) and that he's had only one season under his belt.... the knives were out early last year when he's still trying to get it together... as most humans, he was rattled... and like you said there are a lot sacred cows there and the GM sucked and the organization was dysfunctional anyway... A lot of his missteps seem to be him withering under the barrage of criticism.... I wish him luck.   

 

21 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I still thought Judge would be successful until that off the rails press conference. 

For sure men.  That press conference for me as the psychology guy was a window into Judge's soul/psyche that was not for the faint of heart.  He should have stayed in NE as his first and last options.  Like a lot of young supervisors, he has to live and learn.  I think having an Old-Fashioned Broke Back as OC was too much.  I would have accepted the former Brokeback as a Head Coach.

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17 hours ago, boohyah said:

Joe Judge and Dave Gettleman both thought Mike Glennon was an upgrade over Colt McCoy. 

He's right to go back to New England. McDaniels had a similar fate in Denver and he went back and a few years later he's out on his own again. Judge can rehab his image the next few years and try again. He could go the college route also. He's young enough. 

This.  He should try to rehab in NE and then go to the college route and be a head coach.  He should leave the NFL head coaching tasks alone for the next decade if you ask me.  Around 2031 he could then try to get back into the league as a head coach if his college stint was successful.  He may find he likes college better than the pros and stay there.  It is much easier to get those kids to believe in RAH RAH than big grown men making millions.

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8 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

LOL, well..... that 'results vs. process' thing was one comment I didn't have any issue with. 

Valuing the process over immediate results is a mark of wisdom. 'Process over results' is something you'll hear over and over if you ever spend time with high achieving people. 

In Judge's case, maybe he just watched one too many TED Talks.... but parroting the point or not, he wasn't wrong about that. 

True... it was the other Caine Mutiny stuff that sank him.  All he had to do with the process stuff was sit down with two or three guys who cover the team and explain his reasoning.  They would have defended him by saying yeah, we fuck up this year but in the long run the process will work and we will win out.  That is all that had to happen.  Unfortunately, a lot of young bosses take on too much too soon and think it is all about them.  It's not.

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7 hours ago, GorillaNJ said:

It does seem to be a pretty common theme with coaches coming out of New England, they try to bring the culture of the Belichick to their new teams, but without his winning resume it is not easy to keep a team and fan base on board

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/12/sports/bill-belichick-coaching-tree-failures/#:~:text=The list%3A Romeo Crennel%2C Eric,in parts of 28 seasons.

For sure I have definitely noticed that.  Plus, Belichick was able to thrive here because Parcells left him alone to be the evil genius.  Once in the bright lights he faded.  He needs an owner who embraces him and the camera... plus sycophants that eat his crap daily.  Most of his coaches fall into that category.  I think Belichick carries most of them.  IMHO.

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4 hours ago, Nas said:

Agreed.   I, too, didn't have a problem with the comment.   But technically he was still earning his stripes and wasn't in a position to make it... in retrospect of course.   

He said it when we were, like, 6-127.

If we were making some kind of steady progress, yeah, ok, I'll buy into the process. 

Winning games is what it's all about.

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8 minutes ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

True... it was the other Caine Mutiny stuff that sank him.  All he had to do with the process stuff was sit down with two or three guys who cover the team and explain his reasoning.  They would have defended him by saying yeah, we fuck up this year but in the long run the process will work and we will win out.  That is all that had to happen.  Unfortunately, a lot of young bosses take on too much too soon and think it is all about them.  It's not.

You're dead on, he left so much shit on the podium that would have been better kept behind closed doors or not said at all.

Of all the things to not bring down from New England, he couldn't just play the part while at the podium. Damn shame.

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16 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

You're dead on, he left so much shit on the podium that would have been better kept behind closed doors or not said at all.

Of all the things to not bring down from New England, he couldn't just play the part while at the podium. Damn shame.

Right bro.  As the head cheese you have to have a self-censorship button that you turn on.  Just stick with the coaching platitudes.  For me these guys try to be Belichick with his two Giants Superbowl wins... four Patriot Superbowl wins, and his assistants have Jack All Shit.  Romeo Crennel was a Bill Boy and spent time with both Bills with the during the Giants Superbowl runs.  Also, the Giants birthed Lombardi, Landry and a host of others in the 50's through 80's.  Paul Brown also birthed greats like Bill Walsh and others. 

The differences are those guys walked into buildings with plans... none of them acted like they walked on water like Belichick's assistants.  Let's be frank with Giants fans out there.  Judge only got a shot because he was near Belichick and Belichick was not returning to Giants Land.  Other than that, Judge had fuck all of a resume.  I would have preferred some of the other Belichick assistants such as Romeo Crennel.  He IMHO would have been much better.  Judge at best would have been a position coach here.

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25 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

You're dead on, he left so much shit on the podium that would have been better kept behind closed doors or not said at all.

Of all the things to not bring down from New England, he couldn't just play the part while at the podium. Damn shame.

I have a long list of people who were my lieutenants, and I would promote them all.  Except for my former Indian fuck buddy.  I love her and she was and is a great person.  I regret choosing her as a lieutenant and working under me as she repeatedly made wrong decisions that exposed me to a lot of heat, and she never learned.  I would explain the whole process to her, and she would still not do it.  I am far from perfect, but I spent so much time in repairing her mistakes that she went kind of rogue.  By the time she left... she left a bag of shit in my lap that I could never recover from.  During her era, I had nine lieutenants that I chose and promoted Black, White, Latina and Asian who all maintain great friendships with me to this day.  Including my Indian fuck buddy. 

I have written countless recommendations for all of my lieutenants, and they have all gotten the jobs they aspired too.  If is funny that even as the big boss, you are always learning.   Luckily, I had prepared mechanisms in place to deal with fallout... but I should not have had to.  It is the same I believe with Belichick.  The guy lives and breathes football and he does not train his assistants in getting the big chair as that would be a direct conflict (he believes) to himself.  I think unlike Bill Parcells he is lacking in the ability to train people up the right way.  I would always tell my lieutenants that it took me a long time to get where I am.  You just can't walk in and say my way or the highway.  Always train your assistants to take your place and/or to gain higher than you.  All the plaudits they get will accrue to you as well.

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