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Thoughts on the last couple of weeks...


Tempest
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Another season of NY Giants football has come to an end and yet again we have lost more games than won. Where the organization goes from here depends on Mara & Tisch.  Watching the postgame presser with Joe Judge I noticed that he wasn't up there with tears welling up in his eyes getting all emotional like his predecessor.  Judge was still fighting and his team was fighting though perhaps in vain.  

Media has been loud and clear on Gettleman being gone at the end of the season and history has shown when the media hears something about the Giants they shouldn't know, most likely true.  Now we know that missing on a QB can set a team back years.  They are learning that missing on your head coach is worst.  Now when you miss on you General Manager...you need a new approach.  That is a decision once again for John Mara & Steve Tisch.  Everyone has advice for them on what to do next and none of them have ever been in the position Mara & Tisch are in now.  If Abrams is the next GM then he has to against all odds make the 2022 season an overwhelming success.  

I wonder where would the team be under Judge if he didn't have Jason Garrett as part of the staff.  Early on it was clear Marc Colombo was a mistake and bringing in Mike Glennon over bringing back Colt McCoy was another mistake.  Giants offense under Jason Garrett regressed decades bringing back production totals last seen in the 1950s.

There were questions going into the year if Daniel Jones is the franchise QB.  Now we are left with will he play again in the NFL.  Pretty clear to me it was his talent and desire to win that kept the offense going.

Hope the Giants don't trade away the hard gained two first round picks in the draft for a band aid fix in a veteran QB.  This team isn't one player away from the playoffs.

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I think they finally pull the trigger on a complete rebuild, no more half assed attempts.

DG gets his retirement ceremony, Judge gets let go.

Rumors are the Giants have a number of GM candidates already lined up for interviews. 

A new HC gets chosen. 

Next season we cut/trade players to create cap room for next year and 2023, i.e. Barkley, Bradberry, Martinez, Rudolph, Shepard, Engram walks along with others. 

And in four years hopefully we have a competitive team.

.....hopefully. 

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New GM gets to choose the HC, maybe they like Judge with a different offensive approach.  

Both 1st rd picks should go towards offensive line.  I do not see a franchise QB this year in the draft. 

Jones is the starting QB next year and gets one last year to prove he is the guy or not and if not, we try to get our franchise QB in 2023.  

I still want to like Judge, but this team was legendarily poorly coached.  No idea who should replace Getty, hoping Mara and Tisch can evaluate outside the organization and get someone with a real plan.  

As it is, thisn is the worst Giants team I can remember.  I'm trying to think back and come up with a year where not onloy was the team terrible, but also the future had doubts like they do now.  

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Both 1st round picks should be traded for more/future picks. This isn't the draft to build a team from. Plus, if the rumors are true and we promote Abrahms and keep Judge, what's the point in picking twice in the top 10? They'll just blow it up next year. We need to invest heavily in a rebuild of the future. There's no quick fix. Cut/trade whatever you can for 2023-2024. 

And I already expect to write off the 2022 season as a loss. 

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I can live with Joe Judge another season and also willing to give Kevin Abrams a chance as well.  He has been running our cap numbers for years and has to navigate this next season delicately.  Simply this is not the best time to bring in a new GM, HC,  blow up the roster and start new.  To force the issue now is an emotional response and makes no business sense.

Giants can't possibly cut/trade enough players to come in under the cap and sign a better team through free agency then give that roster to a new head coach and then tell that Head Coach and General Manager they now have two years to make it work while having no chance in hell their first.  Every GM and HC now comes in already burdened with the last decade of disappointment.

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We need to clean house and do a complete rebuild. We've seen enough from Joe Judge to know he's a bad coach. Show him the door as well.

- Keep Daniel Jones around, but don't pick up his 5th year option. There may be no QB's in the draft worthy of a top 10 pick in this draft, but we may want to consider Sam Howell, Carson Strong, or Desmond Ridder in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. If we have another bad year, fine because the 2023 QB class is looking stronger with Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, and Tanner McKee.

- They need to make a lot of cuts to free up cap space, including Solder and Shepherd. Finally address the OL: They need to bring in one premium veteran OL in free agency, then draft Evan Neal, Kenyon Green, and/or Tyler Linderbaum with the #5 and #7 picks. Beyond that, draft and bring in FAs for depth. No more pussyfooting around with the OL. We need to come out of this off-season having brought in at least three guys who can start day one on the OL.

- I'm hoping it's possible we can bring back Lorenzo Carter on a one year "prove it" deal, for something like 1 year $5-6M.

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I’m fine with bring back jones for a 5th year and maybe a Brisket , Taylor or Taylor type to be a back up. Jones needs to go off though if he want another deal 35+ TD type season. 
 

if Judge is back then we’ll I applaud the Jaguars on doing what the giants couldn’t and that’s sad. 

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In regards to the blowing it all up ideas:  Which team in NFL history has done a complete rebuild successfully?  What is the timeframe on that as well because the fan base so far is two years.  You cannot fire ownership, so scratch that dumb idea.

That leaves Football Operations and coaches.  Gettleman created new positions, brought in people, fired others.  Judge brought in new coaches, created new positions and retained coaches from Shurmur.

Players:  Are we keeping players based on how much they are not getting paid, are getting paid, which round we drafted them in, production?

Giants first need a General Manager who then helps select the Head Coach who decides on his staff and the roster.  Or just find a head coach and give him complete authority?  Do you give that command & authority to anyone willing to take the job or someone with experience.

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31 minutes ago, Tempest said:

In regards to the blowing it all up ideas:  Which team in NFL history has done a complete rebuild successfully?  What is the timeframe on that as well because the fan base so far is two years.  You cannot fire ownership, so scratch that dumb idea.

That leaves Football Operations and coaches.  Gettleman created new positions, brought in people, fired others.  Judge brought in new coaches, created new positions and retained coaches from Shurmur.

Players:  Are we keeping players based on how much they are not getting paid, are getting paid, which round we drafted them in, production?

Giants first need a General Manager who then helps select the Head Coach who decides on his staff and the roster.  Or just find a head coach and give him complete authority?  Do you give that command & authority to anyone willing to take the job or someone with experience.

Not sure where you're going with this. Teams fire/hire GMs and Coaches, and cut/bring in new players all the time. The franchises who hire the right people build winning teams.

We don't currently have the right people in the front office or on the coaching staff. We also have some big contracts we need to dump (e.g. Shepherd, Solder, possibly need to consider Bradberry), and long term need to plan on moving on from Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkely.

In other words, a successful Giants future does not consist of Dave Gettleman (or Kevin Abrams) and his staff, Joe Judge,  Daniel Jones, and Saquon Barkely. That's blowing it up. Moving on from your (unsuccesful) front office, coaches, and from your quarterback.

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6 minutes ago, Pdouble said:

Judge has to go.  
 

 

Agreed. And I'll add this. I get it for the people who want to say Joe Judge was dealt a bad hand, however in his two years in coaching, Joe Judge is 1) Clearly in over his head, and 2) Is the type of coach who makes bad situations worse.

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15 minutes ago, Pdouble said:

I don’t know how you can watch him coach a game and not want him gone.
 

His in-game decisions alone are a reason to fire him.  

He's clearly in over his head and just not capable of performing the head coaching job. He's a ST coordinator at best at this point. Peter Principle. He rose to his level of incompetence. 

Why even bring him back? Next year is a rebuild year. We need to be looking for a new QB, overhauled OL, new offensive system/coordinator. It's likely going to be another losing season where you're going to end up firing him after 2022 anyway. This team is not just a few tweaks away from being a winning team. What's the point of bringing Judge back?

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I think keeping Judge was the right decision even if it is hard for the fans right now.  Now if Judge continues to lose, he gets fired next year and we'll be in the top 5 again and have an opportunity to bring in a head coach who can pick his QB.  The team will be in a better place as far as the cap as well.

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2 hours ago, Tempest said:

I think keeping Judge was the right decision even if it is hard for the fans right now.  Now if Judge continues to lose, he gets fired next year and we'll be in the top 5 again and have an opportunity to bring in a head coach who can pick his QB.  The team will be in a better place as far as the cap as well.

So the rebuild will start in 2023, and 2022 is just another pointless 10 loss season. In other words, delaying the inevitable.

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15 hours ago, Tempest said:

Remains to be seen how pointless 2022 will be.  Plenty of opportunity to get better this year.

Nobody can turn this whole thing around in one season. I'd be happy with six wins, earn draft capital, build for the future.

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1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Nobody can turn this whole thing around in one season. I'd be happy with six wins, earn draft capital, build for the future.

Actually I don’t think we have as big of a mess… this team showed flashes early on.  Between adding new talent and a better coaching staff, I think we can improve better than just 6 wins.

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1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Nobody can turn this whole thing around in one season. I'd be happy with six wins, earn draft capital, build for the future.

That's why I keep saying trade away the 2 firsts. Surely we could end up with 4 firsts next year or 3 next and 2-3 in 23, something like that. We're not going to be able to unload enough players for cap space, just go with what we've got, pick up some depth in the later rounds and wait for '23 and beyond. I know it sounds sort of like what Ditka did to get Ricky Williams, but the 1st round talent is supposedly better in '23, especially at QB. No matter what, we need a plan and we need to stick to the plan. 

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