Jeremy Droppy!

[RandolphScott]

Ok, I apologize for taking the word of the player who was actually involved in the play. Instead, the word of the person who watching it on TV. I'm sorry...

 

It's a good thing you didn't watch the Giants play in the 80's. Taylor did alot of things on and off the field that some would consider childish.

 

Like I said, I'm glad Shockey played for the Giants and I wouldn't changed anything he did... Before Shockey came, the offense were a bunch of push-overs and made me fucking sick. Finally, somebody who had some fucking balls and attitude was playing on offense. I for one was thrilled Shockey called out the players and the coaches after the Seattle lost. Finally, some one held this team accountable.

 

 

Mentioning L.T. and Shockey in the same breath is so, so SO, incredibly stupid. L.T. changed the game..

Shockey is now on his career down swing and has never come close to fulfilling his true potential.

 

Before Shockey came, that same offense went to the Superbowl. After he left, the offense went to

the Superbowl and WON it. Any conspiracy theories thing the reason Eli's interceptions are down

because this clown is now wasting away in New Orleans?

[Chuck Wagon]

Seeing that good citizen Boss Man do just about everything this jackhole does without the aggravation makes me lament the fact we did not unload him a year prior.

 

Boss also has some serious hands T....I mean Dave Casper or Old man Winslow hands. Like fly paper and he YAKs after he catches it..not before. Shockey would go Roberto Durant about every third opportunity towards the end of his time with the NYGs and when he did catch it almost always end up falling down...I mean it got weird their towards the end.

 

C. Wagon

[ppodlesny]

Boss also has some serious hands T....I mean Dave Casper or Old man Winslow hands. Like fly paper and he YAKs after he catches it..not before. Shockey would go Roberto Durant about every third opportunity towards the end of his time with the NYGs and when he did catch it almost always end up falling down...I mean it got weird their towards the end.

 

C. Wagon

lets not get ahead of ourselves here just yet

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

Boss also has some serious hands T....I mean Dave Casper or Old man Winslow hands. Like fly paper and he YAKs after he catches it..not before. Shockey would go Roberto Durant about every third opportunity towards the end of his time with the NYGs and when he did catch it almost always end up falling down...I mean it got weird their towards the end.

 

C. Wagon

 

I also remember a couple times when Shockey had a clear path to the end zone, but instead, ran into a crowd just so he could hit people, and ended up NOT scoring. That always pissed me off.

[Chuck Wagon]

lets not get ahead of ourselves here just yet

 

Did not say moves...route running....blocking....knowledge......or athletic ability.....just hands.

 

Watch the kid - smooth as a babies ass with the hands...just like the two HOF'ers I mentioned. Not in their league...but great fucking hands P.

 

C. Wagon.

[ppodlesny]

Did not say moves...route running....blocking....knowledge......or athletic ability.....just hands.

 

Watch the kid - smooth as a babies ass with the hands...just like the two HOF'ers I mentioned. Not in their league...but great fucking hands P.

 

C. Wagon.

I agree the kid can play....I'd just like to see where he is in 3 years. If he still is as productive then we can put him that league....right now I'd like to see him get the production that jason Whitten gets.

[NeMesiS]

Mentioning L.T. and Shockey in the same breath is so, so SO, incredibly stupid. L.T. changed the game..

Shockey is now on his career down swing and has never come close to fulfilling his true potential.

 

Before Shockey came, that same offense went to the Superbowl. After he left, the offense went to

the Superbowl and WON it. Any conspiracy theories thing the reason Eli's interceptions are down

because this clown is now wasting away in New Orleans?

What? At no point did I ever compared Lawrence and jeremy's playing abilities. I mearly said Taylor did alot of childish and selfish thing on and off the field. And I can remember alot plays where Lawrence 'Took off' ...

[BlueInCanada]

What? At no point did I ever compared Lawrence and jeremy's playing abilities. I mearly said Taylor did alot of childish and selfish thing on and off the field. And I can remember alot plays where Lawrence 'Took off' ...

 

The difference is LT produced, Shockey acted childish and would go games without a catch.

[Virginia Giant]

I also remember a couple times when Shockey had a clear path to the end zone, but instead, ran into a crowd just so he could hit people, and ended up NOT scoring. That always pissed me off.

Yeah, against San Fran in the playoffs. :brooding:

[fishgutmartyr]

What? At no point did I ever compared Lawrence and jeremy's playing abilities. I mearly said Taylor did alot of childish and selfish thing on and off the field. And I can remember alot plays where Lawrence 'Took off' ...

 

Off the field, I agree.

 

But on the field, there is no comparison. Taylor played every play as best as he could. You might be thinking of his last few seasons, where his best was pretty much behind him. But I'll tell you what: he never criticized his teammates on the field, he always gave his all during the game (although at the end, his "all" wasn't nearly what it once was), and I've never heard anyone call him selfish before. The guy played games with his shoulder in a harness, leaving him with one arm, his thigh wrapped because of a blown out hamstring; and was still a factor in those games.

 

Even at his crack smoking worst, Taylor never pulled a quarter of the on field bullshit Shockey has, and that's over a 12-year career.

 

Shockey simply was never able to live up to his potential. He could have been the best TE in the league, but he wound up being a very good one for a while; and now that time is closing. Whether or not it was due to injuries, or just a real fucked-up attitude is open to debate. Get over it.

 

[xxi-xxv]

Ok, I apologize for taking the word of the player who was actually involved in the play. Instead, the word of the person who watching it on TV. I'm sorry...

 

It's a good thing you didn't watch the Giants play in the 80's. Taylor did alot of things on and off the field that some would consider childish.

 

Like I said, I'm glad Shockey played for the Giants and I wouldn't changed anything he did... Before Shockey came, the offense were a bunch of push-overs and made me fucking sick. Finally, somebody who had some fucking balls and attitude was playing on offense. I for one was thrilled Shockey called out the players and the coaches after the Seattle lost. Finally, some one held this team accountable.

 

 

Nem, I was going to avoid going after you on this topic, because I can see you are passionate till the end in your devotion to Shockey. I for one disagree, realize your opinion and know we have differing ones. No big deal.

 

Where I take complete opposition to what you said is when you said "Taylor did alot of things on and off the field that some would consider childish". Nem, this is so far from reality even you cannot believe this in comparing Shockey to LT.

 

NOw granted LT was a mess off the field, but on it, CHILDISH? I mean Nem this is so far from reality you are starting to make shit up. LT was a leader of men, looked up to by his entire team, a LEAGUE MVP on one of the most dominating defenses ever. A man who, despite his lax practice style always knew his assignment on the field, a man who NEVER EVER EVER would be yelled at by a teammate on the sidelines for not knowing where to be. I grew up watching LT and he neer did things like take a bad penalty(yes did he get roughing the passer penalties, well so did Leonard Marshall, Michael STrahan and Kenny Holmes for that matter all players do) he never made dumb plays based on his lack of assignment knowledge, a thing that SHockey still cannot seem to not do, even in a system that as he said "suits his style". Comparing Shockeys onfied antics to ANYTHING Lawrence Taylor did on it is like comparing Dave Brown to Eli Manning, and you will find NO SANE GIANT FAN that would argue that.

 

Nem you are entitled to your Shockey devotion, you like the guy, we get it, but please please please do not offend the Giants fans by daring to compare him to anything our greatest player of all time did, its actually unfair to Shockey and really makes no sense.

 

AND NEM, LT never took off EVER, played 100% every play, like a crazed bunch of dogs in fact. Go watch tape of the 44-3 beating in SF in 1994, his last playoff game, was chasing Young around like it was 1986 when the Giants were down 5 scores in the 4th. All anyone needs to do is go watch game tape of the 1988 Sunday nighter in New Orleans of all places when LT single handedly won a game for his team who were forced to play on the road with a 3rd string QB. ALL LT did that night was have 3.5 sacks, a forced fumble, INT and a safety in a 12-10 win, when Hoss was the QB long before he became the Hoss of 1990. The next time Shockey has a performance like that will be hius first, Go ask Harry Carson or Carl Banks if LAwrence ever took a play off? In fact call Carl when he is on Sirius NFL channel one day, he will probably laugh you off the air.

 

You should concentrate on comparing him to Boss, not LT, please.

[NeMesiS]

Off the field, I agree.

 

But on the field, there is no comparison. Taylor played every play as best as he could. You might be thinking of his last few seasons, where his best was pretty much behind him. But I'll tell you what: he never criticized his teammates on the field, he always gave his all during the game (although at the end, his "all" wasn't nearly what it once was), and I've never heard anyone call him selfish before. The guy played games with his shoulder in a harness, leaving him with one arm, his thigh wrapped because of a blown out hamstring; and was still a factor in those games.

 

Even at his crack smoking worst, Taylor never pulled a quarter of the on field bullshit Shockey has, and that's over a 12-year career.

 

Shockey simply was never able to live up to his potential. He could have been the best TE in the league, but he wound up being a very good one for a while; and now that time is closing. Whether or not it was due to injuries, or just a real fucked-up attitude is open to debate. Get over it.

Nem, I was going to avoid going after you on this topic, because I can see you are passionate till the end in your devotion to Shockey. I for one disagree, realize your opinion and know we have differing ones. No big deal.

 

Where I take complete opposition to what you said is when you said "Taylor did alot of things on and off the field that some would consider childish". Nem, this is so far from reality even you cannot believe this in comparing Shockey to LT.

 

NOw granted LT was a mess off the field, but on it, CHILDISH? I mean Nem this is so far from reality you are starting to make shit up. LT was a leader of men, looked up to by his entire team, a LEAGUE MVP on one of the most dominating defenses ever. A man who, despite his lax practice style always knew his assignment on the field, a man who NEVER EVER EVER would be yelled at by a teammate on the sidelines for not knowing where to be. I grew up watching LT and he neer did things like take a bad penalty(yes did he get roughing the passer penalties, well so did Leonard Marshall, Michael STrahan and Kenny Holmes for that matter all players do) he never made dumb plays based on his lack of assignment knowledge, a thing that SHockey still cannot seem to not do, even in a system that as he said "suits his style". Comparing Shockeys onfied antics to ANYTHING Lawrence Taylor did on it is like comparing Dave Brown to Eli Manning, and you will find NO SANE GIANT FAN that would argue that.

 

Nem you are entitled to your Shockey devotion, you like the guy, we get it, but please please please do not offend the Giants fans by daring to compare him to anything our greatest player of all time did, its actually unfair to Shockey and really makes no sense.

 

AND NEM, LT never took off EVER, played 100% every play, like a crazed bunch of dogs in fact. Go watch tape of the 44-3 beating in SF in 1994, his last playoff game, was chasing Young around like it was 1986 when the Giants were down 5 scores in the 4th. All anyone needs to do is go watch game tape of the 1988 Sunday nighter in New Orleans of all places when LT single handedly won a game for his team who were forced to play on the road with a 3rd string QB. ALL LT did that night was have 3.5 sacks, a forced fumble, INT and a safety in a 12-10 win, when Hoss was the QB long before he became the Hoss of 1990. The next time Shockey has a performance like that will be hius first, Go ask Harry Carson or Carl Banks if LAwrence ever took a play off? In fact call Carl when he is on Sirius NFL channel one day, he will probably laugh you off the air.

 

You should concentrate on comparing him to Boss, not LT, please.

 

OMG...Fish, xxi... I don't know how else to explain this. Maybe it's my fault. Again, let me make this perfectly clear. I...AM...NOT...COMPAIRING...TAYLOR...AND...SHOCKEY'S...PLAYING...ABILITIES. Again, obvious Taylor is one of the greatest players to put on a helmet. There's no comparison. Come on boys, Let's not get silly here.

 

You guys make it sound like I didn't see that Sunday night game against New Orleans. We needed to that game just to make for a playoff run and I believe Carl Banks was hurt for that game too. I will never forget that game...ever. (I don't think taylor scored a safety... I think they scored ot on us. But i could be wrong).

 

But lets not kid ourself either... Bill would get pissed at Taylor for missing an assignment and call him undisapline and would ask him to get his head out of his ass. Lawrence has openly admitted when didn't know his assignment, he would just rush the QB. Sometime instead of thinking of the next play, he was thinking about doing crack after the game. But yeah, he never missed an assignment. Come on, lets take off the Giants color glasses for one second. Dude, I love Taylor. He is without a doubt my second favorite Giants player of all time, behind Bavaro... But he took plays off. He has said it himself.

 

 

[boohyah]

Nemesis did not compare Shockey to LT in terms of ability, he claimed he had some personality similarities. You guys are getting on him too much about that frankly.

 

And frankly, the whole Shockey sucks balls thing is fucking old. He didn't suck balls. Could he have been better, yes, could he have behaved better, yes. But the guy was a good tight end while he was with us, the guy has plenty of awards like pro bowls, all pros awards that obviously somebody thought he was pretty good.

 

And the guy did play hard, and played hurt. But Shockey suffers from the same issue Tiki does with Giant fans. That is, he left on bad terms, so they look back on his playing career and suddenly, he's not what he used to be. And you can't deny this happens. That Giant fans boo Tiki to me is fucking wrong, because there's a guy who left everything on the field.

 

Shockey's gone and I appreciate what he did, and I don't wish for his career to hit the skids. But he's New Orleans property now.Boss is our guy now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nem is wrong about Frank Walker and Jim Finn though.......dead, dead wrong!

[RandolphScott]

You don't have to wish his career is going to hit the skids...it already has.

[fishgutmartyr]

 

The only reason I posted on this thread at all was because Nem tried to compare Shockey's antics on the field with Taylor's behavior on the field, which I obviously disagree with. Yeah, he probably missed assignments and compensated by rushing the QB, which he did most of the time anyway. At the end of his career, he probably did take plays off. But he damn sure didn't start making gestures towards his teammates, or call out his coaches.

 

Not once in this thread did I say that Shockey sucked, unless calling a player a very good tight end that could have been more is now means the same thing. What I have said in the past, even while he was here, was that between the boneheaded play, the shitty attitude towards teammates, and the prima-donna act offseason, the bullshit to joy ratio was out of whack with him; to the point where he wasn't really an asset to the team. I don't think I've been proven wrong this year since our passing game is much better than previous years, with the same starting two WRs, a healthy Steve Smith, and Kevin Boss.

 

Quite frankly I couldn't care less if Shockey does well or not in NO--he's their problem now. I only hope they do poorly this year so that we get high picks from them.

 

 

[NeMesiS]

Nem is wrong about Frank Walker and Jim Finn though.......dead, dead wrong!

Please... Everyone wants to give Joe Flacco credit for Baltimores success. But I know the truth...It's all Frank Walker.

[Virginia Giant]

Nem is wrong about Frank Walker and Jim Finn though.......dead, dead wrong!

You can have Finn, I'll keep Hedgecock.

[xxi-xxv]

I like Fish never said Shockey sucked, the guy did not suck. He was never as good as some of us(myself included) made him out to be, but for the record he never "sucked". Calling him a bad teammate, an asshole and a dummy does not equal calling him sucky. From a talent perspective and potential he was better than any Giant TE I ever saw, he had more talent than Bavaro even, he just never lived up to that potential, IMO because of his attitude. Shockey does not suck.

 

The bottom line is this. SHockey never had the success that LT had, was never the player that LT was and was not the teammate that LT was either, simple as that. Rumor is they hate Shockey in N.O., the guy is an asshole, has been an asshole for years and acted as such both on and off the field. I completely respect your devotion to Shockey NEM, but using LT as any form of comprison to him is unfair and unrealistic. The only thing they have in common is they both liked to get sloshed and bang hot women(who doesn't?).

 

BTW Nem, its Kevin Gilbride, with a d, not a t

 

Whatever the case, he certainly was never the man off the field that this guy is The Boss Man

[Sephiroth]

What? At no point did I ever compared Lawrence and jeremy's playing abilities. I mearly said Taylor did alot of childish and selfish thing on and off the field. And I can remember alot plays where Lawrence 'Took off' ...

 

Dude... Nem... Taylor NEVER took a play off. The guy was the definition of "intensity." Missed assignments everyone has... but that guy threw a ball into the third tier with his LEFT arm when his right one was in a sling. You can get lippy with the coaching staff when you show up every week... the problem with Shockey is that he talked the talk, but only walked the walk about 50% of the time. For every big catch (like the one over Brian Dawkins to get us to the playoffs) there was a big drop (like the San Francisco playoff game that would have iced it for us).

 

 

 

[Ditto]

Did not say moves...route running....blocking....knowledge......or athletic ability.....just hands.

 

Watch the kid - smooth as a babies ass with the hands...just like the two HOF'ers I mentioned. Not in their league...but great fucking hands P.

 

C. Wagon.

He remembers his routes, too.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I like Fish never said Shockey sucked, the guy did not suck. He was never as good as some of us(myself included) made him out to be, but for the record he never "sucked". Calling him a bad teammate, an asshole and a dummy does not equal calling him sucky. From a talent perspective and potential he was better than any Giant TE I ever saw, he had more talent than Bavaro even, he just never lived up to that potential, IMO because of his attitude. Shockey does not suck.

 

The bottom line is this. SHockey never had the success that LT had, was never the player that LT was and was not the teammate that LT was either, simple as that. Rumor is they hate Shockey in N.O., the guy is an asshole, has been an asshole for years and acted as such both on and off the field. I completely respect your devotion to Shockey NEM, but using LT as any form of comprison to him is unfair and unrealistic. The only thing they have in common is they both liked to get sloshed and bang hot women(who doesn't?).

 

BTW Nem, its Kevin Gilbride, with a d, not a t

 

Whatever the case, he certainly was never the man off the field that this guy is The Boss Man

 

 

That is a great story on THE BOSS MAN!!! I ran group homes for the developmentally delayed (mentally retarded) for 10 years and for someone without that length and breadth of experience to just come right over and develop such a genuine relationship with a guy and his family with so little exposure is heart warming. Remember when people were criticizing the Giants for not drafting the likes of Attila the Hun or Idi Amin like other teams; we were lambasted for it. I am glad that the Giants try to cultivate good guys and also try to rehabilitate bad boys into good citizens. They also stick close to the guys who fall into negative behavior long after their playing careers are over (Stephen Baker for one) and still try to help them through. An all around class organization. You could see that Wellington Mara ran this more as a family style shop than the big business it actually is.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

He remembers his routes, too.

 

 

I guess its easier to do that without the arm waving....

[Chuck Wagon]

He remembers his routes, too.

 

LOL....good point.

 

LT vs. Shockey.

 

I never, not once - got the sense that LT was doing any antics with an underlying "look at me" agenda. I think when he did act up that it was sincere and real cause he knew he was the best and he knew everyone in the stadium knew it too...there for...he didn't have to show off.

 

I thought the same with shock early on....not being the best but being genuine in emotion......the nodding his head as he sat on Dawkins in the endzone....that was real - and very LT like...as soooooooo fucking cool.

 

But later it sort of seemed like the became a cartoon character...not like Chad Johnson...but closer to that clown Johnson then LT - the greatest ever.

 

C. Wagon

[Money]

I don't see the value in embarking upon revisionist history, scrutinizing individual plays, or painting everyone into "Shockey hater" or "Shockey apologist" corners. It's all in the past.

 

Today, irrefutably, we are a better team without him. The evidence no longer consists of an improbable playoff run. It now includes 16 wins out of 18 games without him. It includes the league's highest scoring offense in 2008. It includes the best stretch of our QB's career by a substantial margin. Case closed.

 

He was a terrific player for several years. He's not the player he once was because of injuries, and the Saints certainly regret giving up a premium pick to get him. On top of that, he complained his way off the best team in the league. That was his choice. He didn't want to be here, and his presence threatened the success of the Giants both on the field and in the locker room.

 

We've successfully replaced him with Kevin Boss -- the same guy that Nemesis dismissed as being a TE who "can't catch and can't run" -- and although Boss is not better than Shockey in a vacuum, it's abundantly clear that he's better for this team.

[NeMesiS]

I don't see the value in embarking upon revisionist history, scrutinizing individual plays, or painting everyone into "Shockey hater" or "Shockey apologist" corners. It's all in the past.

 

Today, irrefutably, we are a better team without him. The evidence no longer consists of an improbable playoff run. It now includes 16 wins out of 18 games without him. It includes the league's highest scoring offense in 2008. It includes the best stretch of our QB's career by a substantial margin. Case closed.

 

He was a terrific player for several years. He's not the player he once was because of injuries, and the Saints certainly regret giving up a premium pick to get him. On top of that, he complained his way off the best team in the league. That was his choice. He didn't want to be here, and his presence threatened the success of the Giants both on the field and in the locker room.

 

We've successfully replaced him with Kevin Boss -- the same guy that Nemesis dismissed as being a TE who "can't catch and can't run" -- and although Boss is not better than Shockey in a vacuum, it's abundantly clear that he's better for this team.

 

Money,

 

I said those things base on the fact that Boss had, at the time, 6 drops (4 in the playoff) compare to 11 career catches. And you're going to tell me Boss was a great run and pass blocker last year.