CrazedDogs Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I may be in the minority on this, but I don’t think the Jones era OL is nearly on the abysmal level as some of those late-Eli era OLs. Back when Ereck Flowers was the LT? difference was, Eli got the offense into good fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2024 at 1:40 PM, BronxRik said: All good points and why I'm not an NFL GM. I've never been a Jones guy, but he's the guy in there and while I think he's been given plenty of time to develop, he hasn't been given the tools to develop. Or, should I say, the right tools to develop. That line has been bad for, what, over a decade? But not as bad as it's been while DJ has been QB. And 2023 was just laughable. I am of the firm conviction that if we somehow managed to land CJ Stroud last year, he isn't as successful here as he was in Houston, and neither will any rookie we manage to land this year if that's the route we go. Plus....DJ....all that money just to watch him fail? I don't know dudes. There's just so much to be done that's not gonna get fixed in one offseason. I wish there was a way to just dump everyone, zero out our cap and go build a team with $255 million dollars from scratch. These are the Giants of 1979-1980 to me, and/or the 1982 Giants (Parcell's first year). Those were bad Giants teams with upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3VIN Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Welp agrees JJS combine I don’t think he’s going in Rounds 1-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 7 hours ago, CrazedDogs said: I may be in the minority on this, but I don’t think the Jones era OL is nearly on the abysmal level as some of those late-Eli era OLs. Back when Ereck Flowers was the LT? difference was, Eli got the offense into good fits. This... so knowledgeable about the game that he saw blitzes and stunts coming by just looking at the lineup. That will help with the rush. DJ is too inexperienced and has a run to get out of trouble mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 10 hours ago, CrazedDogs said: I may be in the minority on this, but I don’t think the Jones era OL is nearly on the abysmal level as some of those late-Eli era OLs. Back when Ereck Flowers was the LT? difference was, Eli got the offense into good fits. It was statistically the second-worst line in NFL history. It was really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Could be recency bias but the line I saw in the first half of the season was the worst I’ve ever seen. To your point, though, it’s gross how badly we fucked up the end of Eli’s prime with that o-line. If he has to wait a few years for the hof that’s going to be why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 6 hours ago, Herc said: Could be recency bias but the line I saw in the first half of the season was the worst I’ve ever seen. To your point, though, it’s gross how badly we fucked up the end of Eli’s prime with that o-line. If he has to wait a few years for the hof that’s going to be why Yep... all we had to do was pay for a few tackles who could block and go max protection on most plays. Recency bias for sure. The lines of the 70s were really bad with worse QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_NYG Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Just a stat online - the Giants OL for 2023 was the absolute worst OL in the entire League in the last 58 years. In every single category they sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 10 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said: Yep... all we had to do was pay for a few tackles who could block and go max protection on most plays. Recency bias for sure. The lines of the 70s were really bad with worse QB's. Andrew Fucking Whitworth WANTED to be our LT but Reese wouldn't even call him because he thought Ereck Flowers was going to be something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said: Yep... all we had to do was pay for a few tackles who could block and go max protection on most plays. Recency bias for sure. The lines of the 70s were really bad with worse QB's. Well to be fair I never saw those 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Sephiroth said: Andrew Fucking Whitworth WANTED to be our LT but Reese wouldn't even call him because he thought Ereck Flowers was going to be something. Plus he passed on four time pro bowler Laremy Tunsil and gave us Eli Apple instead. Taylor Decker would have been fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Sephiroth said: Andrew Fucking Whitworth WANTED to be our LT but Reese wouldn't even call him because he thought Ereck Flowers was going to be something. Jesus Holy Christ... I forgot that. Giants GM's have a history of getting stuck on their pet project players... for Young it was that fucking Dave Brown... Reese Ereck Flowers and others.... Gettlemen overpaying journeymen as if they were/are MVP's and going with DJ... Schoen sticking with DJ... It just goes to show us that I would not have been unhappy if they let DJ walk after the Vikings playoff win. I think we would have been better off. DJ's upside is Danny Kannell game manager of the Fassell era. Fassell was an offensive genius and got as much as he could from Kannell who was basically a 2nd and/or 3rd string QB. Time for Schoen to get off the dime and get his QB. I really don't think that Schoen will hitch his wagon to DJ and is very ready to live and/or die with his guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 53 minutes ago, Herc said: Well to be fair I never saw those 😂 You did not miss much bro. The Giants of the 70s especially were known for their great defenses. One of the tropes of the 70s was that if we could combine the defense of the Giants with the offense of the Jets we would have a powerhouse team in NY second to none. Of course it was pure fantasy, because prior to free agency there was genuine hatred between the Giants and Jets fans and their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 If they want to trade down I trust them but the guys in our range seem so good, including all 3 qbs, that I really would like to get one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 18 hours ago, Herc said: If they want to trade down I trust them but the guys in our range seem so good, including all 3 qbs, that I really would like to get one of them I agree... don't wait for it. Go for it. L'audace as the French would say it... Audacity. Better to lose out on reaching for your guy than sitting back and hoping for the best. I was a big let it happen guy when I ran things... but occasionally I would reach out and usually get the person I wanted for a role if I thought it necessary. History is usually not the "great" man/woman, it is usually a chain of events leading up to an event... however sometimes you have to go for your Eli and be done with. No agonizing, no over thinking and/or histrionics. No matter what you do, you will be criticized. So go down reaching for the apple rather than waiting for the apple to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 On 3/5/2024 at 7:30 PM, Herc said: If they want to trade down I trust them but the guys in our range seem so good, including all 3 qbs, that I really would like to get one of them This draft is just stacked, especially at positions the team really needs. We could easily take Nabers and still get a top-flight OL and serviceable QB in round 2, or trade down near 10, get picks, and still grab a franchise LT WR, or TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 On 3/3/2024 at 6:54 PM, Sephiroth said: It was statistically the second-worst line in NFL history. It was really bad. It was definitely really bad. But 2nd worst ever? ---- Is that going by total sacks? I felt like I was seeing as many poor QB decisions as I did jail breaks on the offensive line. The whole 2023 QB room was known for causing sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said: It was definitely really bad. But 2nd worst ever? ---- Is that going by total sacks? I felt like I was seeing as many poor QB decisions as I did jail breaks on the offensive line. The whole 2023 QB room was known for causing sacks. Tyrod actually had a pretty good avoiding sacks rating, Divito was mid, Jones is last in the NFL lol I'll need to find the twitter thread but with the DJ hate piling on this offseason there have some pretty interesting deep dives into Jones and his ability. Needless to say he's a historically bad QB who never had a chance with the Giants lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 this thread goes pretty deep on Jones. Does a good job pointing out the entire coaching staff was getting mad at Jones for his inability to read past his first look and his run second tendencies he's had since he was a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Not good company lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 18 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said: this thread goes pretty deep on Jones. Does a good job pointing out the entire coaching staff was getting mad at Jones for his inability to read past his first look and his run second tendencies he's had since he was a rookie. yeah was just about to post this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jranieli Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said: this thread goes pretty deep on Jones. Does a good job pointing out the entire coaching staff was getting mad at Jones for his inability to read past his first look and his run second tendencies he's had since he was a rookie. Isn't that on the coaches too? Pretty much with the same offensive line, Taylor was able to do a better job. Teams really planned for Jones and what I get out of it is that he could not adjust. Why? ALSO very important: DJ's career-best 2022 season came with strict rules - if you don't like your 1st read, quickly scan to the B gap and run! In 2023, DCs adjusted. They stopped rushing him to allow for B gap runs. They stopped crashing EMOLs to stop Barkley on zone read and bootleg PA under center. They forced DJ to process the field BEYOND his first read, with his brain, and get rid of the ball to a second or third read. Would it be crazy, after FIVE years of tape, to think that DJ simply can't get that job done?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said: Tyrod actually had a pretty good avoiding sacks rating, Divito was mid, Jones is last in the NFL lol I'll need to find the twitter thread but with the DJ hate piling on this offseason there have some pretty interesting deep dives into Jones and his ability. Needless to say he's a historically bad QB who never had a chance with the Giants lol Tyrod Taylor? The guy who's never stepped up into a pocket in his career? Color me skeptical. I got weary of watching him bail out the back of clean pockets last season. But he sure made it look like he was escaping pressure in those instances. But it totally ties out to my eye test that both Taylor and DeVito were superior in the pocket, and far, far superior making reads downfield, to Jones. I saw that Twitter thread too, its a damning deep dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said: Not good company lol Vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, jranieli said: Isn't that on the coaches too? Pretty much with the same offensive line, Taylor was able to do a better job. Teams really planned for Jones and what I get out of it is that he could not adjust. Why? ALSO very important: DJ's career-best 2022 season came with strict rules - if you don't like your 1st read, quickly scan to the B gap and run! In 2023, DCs adjusted. They stopped rushing him to allow for B gap runs. They stopped crashing EMOLs to stop Barkley on zone read and bootleg PA under center. They forced DJ to process the field BEYOND his first read, with his brain, and get rid of the ball to a second or third read. Would it be crazy, after FIVE years of tape, to think that DJ simply can't get that job done?” It's on coaching to a point but eventually the QB has to make the reads. If it was that easy every team would have a franchise QB. As it stands there's maybe what? 12 or 13 guys who play the position and have the mental ability to be a winning QB in the NFL. The rest have physical attributes but just can't get the mental side of it down, or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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