Are the Giants really starting 2 rookies at corner?

[NeMesiS]

I know Hawkins had a good camp. But starting the first game of the season? 

[gmenroc]

All signs pointing that direction...guessing base defense is gonna involve 3 CBs/2 S anyhow given most offenses these days....which puts Jackson, Pinnock, and McKinney out there too.

Will have growing pains, but I think there will be far more good than bad and it'll be way better in the long run.

Tough test week 1...will the CBs hold up long enough for pass rush to affect Dak?  Will our offense match up against Diggs and Parsons?  We definitely have a shot, but I wouldn't bet on the Giants in this one...next matchup with all thongs equal I might if the guys continue to develop

[Mr. P]

If we are starting 3 cb’s

[BlueInCanada]

Yeah depth chart has Hawkins and Banks at outside corner with Jackson in the slot.

I assume though all three will be on the field pretty much at all times. 

Going to be growing pains but can't fix everything overnight.

[mastershake]

We pretty much have no one else capable of starting at CB on this team, so yeah Banks and Hawkins are starting, alongside Jackson.

It's also one of the reasons I'm not incredibly high on this giants team this season. They'll likely have a leaky secondary, plus the OL is still going to be shaky far too often. Don't get me wrong, Banks and Hawkins could be great in time, but year 1 there's going to be growing pains.

[mastershake]

https://fb.watch/mVv_qM0MbY/?mibextid=CDWPTG

Evan knows what's up

[jranieli]

Concerning 

[gmenroc]

On the optimistic side, I have far more confidence in the secondary this year than last.

[NeMesiS]

5 hours ago, mastershake said:

We pretty much have no one else capable of starting at CB on this team, so yeah Banks and Hawkins are starting, alongside Jackson.

It's also one of the reasons I'm not incredibly high on this giants team this season. They'll likely have a leaky secondary, plus the OL is still going to be shaky far too often. Don't get me wrong, Banks and Hawkins could be great in time, but year 1 there's going to be growing pains.

Flock? Jackson? Adore played great last year… Flock played pretty good. Not great! What about Holmes?

[mastershake]

3 hours ago, NeMesiS said:

Flock? Jackson? Adore played great last year… Flock played pretty good. Not great! What about Holmes?

Jackson is good. Flott isn't starting material yet, and Holmes is looking like a backup/back end of the roster guy at best in this league.

So we have Jackson, who's like a B+, but the rest of the CBs on this team each are a hard C. In coverage, our safeties are probably C's as well. But who knows maybe Banks, Hawkins, Pinnock, and/or Belton step up and develop into better cover players. I think realistically maybe one or two does.

Even the LBs on this team aren't necessarily great in coverage.

I'm fully confident in this teams ability to stop the run, but the pass game I am anxious. I hope I'm wrong on the latter.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Jackson is good. Flott isn't starting material yet, and Holmes is looking like a backup/back end of the roster guy at best in this league.

So we have Jackson, who's like a B+, but the rest of the CBs on this team each are a hard C. In coverage, our safeties are probably C's as well. But who knows maybe Banks, Hawkins, Pinnock, and/or Belton step up and develop into better cover players. I think realistically maybe one or two does.

Even the LBs on this team aren't necessarily great in coverage.

I'm fully confident in this teams ability to stop the run, but the pass game I am anxious. I hope I'm wrong on the latter.

Funny thing is last year we were bottom 25 in rush defense.

But top 15 in passing defense. 

Opponents rushed for a 5.3 yard average good for 31st in the NFL.

Teams only average 6.4.yards in the air which was 12th best in the NFL. 

If anything the front seven is what we should be worried about lol 

[Nas]

22 hours ago, NeMesiS said:

I know Hawkins had a good camp. But starting the first game of the season? 

Sure why not?

1. They performed well enough in camp to earn their starting status.

2. What better way to learn than trial by fire?

3. The organization is using 2023 to sharpen their knives for the real run in 2024 and beyond.

[mastershake]

2 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Funny thing is last year we were bottom 25 in rush defense.

But top 15 in passing defense. 

Opponents rushed for a 5.3 yard average good for 31st in the NFL.

Teams only average 6.4.yards in the air which was 12th best in the NFL. 

If anything the front seven is what we should be worried about lol 

We now have two actual LBs who can play, and depth at DT to be able to spell Dexter Lawrence and Williams once in awhile.

[Treehugger]

4 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Funny thing is last year we were bottom 25 in rush defense.

But top 15 in passing defense. 

Opponents rushed for a 5.3 yard average good for 31st in the NFL.

Teams only average 6.4.yards in the air which was 12th best in the NFL. 

If anything the front seven is what we should be worried about lol 

LB play was awful. I expect it to be better with Okereke in there.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

15 hours ago, Nas said:

Sure why not?

1. They performed well enough in camp to earn their starting status.

2. What better way to learn than trial by fire?

3. The organization is using 2023 to sharpen their knives for the real run in 2024 and beyond.

It is a five year plan and not a one or two year plan of the Judge Era.  Small steps... next thing you know in 2024 and beyond Super Bowl runs... at least two or three of them at least up until 2030, if not beyond.  Growing pains.

[Iceman_NYG]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:05 AM, gmenroc said:

All signs pointing that direction...guessing base defense is gonna involve 3 CBs/2 S anyhow given most offenses these days....which puts Jackson, Pinnock, and McKinney out there too.

Will have growing pains, but I think there will be far more good than bad and it'll be way better in the long run.

Tough test week 1...will the CBs hold up long enough for pass rush to affect Dak?  Will our offense match up against Diggs and Parsons?  We definitely have a shot, but I wouldn't bet on the Giants in this one...next matchup with all thongs equal I might if the guys continue to develop

Yeah - lets hope Giants arent wearing thongs - let alone equal

[mastershake]

Bumping this thread since my predictions are playing out.

[BlueInCanada]

48 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Bumping this thread since my predictions are playing out.

I'm surprised the LBs look worse than last year.

Fucking Lawrence and Williams are getting pushed arou d like children.

Awful showing tonight. 

[CrazedDogs]

I thought the rookie corners far exceeded (my low) expectations.
 

If we’re blaming any aspect of the D, let’s point fingers at the non-existent pass rush. Dex had like two pressures, and everyone else did nothing. 
 

like I mentioned on the game day thread, I think footwear was a factor. There were matchups vs their OL that favored the Giants - backup guard vs Leo Williams? Bitch please - but we saw none of it. 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

3 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I thought the rookie corners far exceeded (my low) expectations.
 

If we’re blaming any aspect of the D, let’s point fingers at the non-existent pass rush. Dex had like two pressures, and everyone else did nothing. 
 

like I mentioned on the game day thread, I think footwear was a factor. There were matchups vs their OL that favored the Giants - backup guard vs Leo Williams? Bitch please - but we saw none of it. 

Agree with you CD.  The rookie corners were fine.  Guy got ripped off on that pure Broke Back call with the pass interference with the Broke Back pushing into the rookie DB.  That will happen though.  NFL referees trying to get their inner wrestling referee personas fully on it seems.

[mastershake]

On 9/10/2023 at 10:55 PM, BlueInCanada said:

I'm surprised the LBs look worse than last year.

Fucking Lawrence and Williams are getting pushed arou d like children.

Awful showing tonight. 

Meanwhile, not sure if you watched the Jets D-Line last night but damn, now THAT's a top tier D-line if not the best in the league. 

If you look just at our DT's, they should be good, at least against the run, but as far as the DE's go, they get pushed around too much.

It's way too early to write off Neal and Thibs, but they are looking like busts.

[BlueInCanada]

2 hours ago, mastershake said:

Meanwhile, not sure if you watched the Jets D-Line last night but damn, now THAT's a top tier D-line if not the best in the league. 

If you look just at our DT's, they should be good, at least against the run, but as far as the DE's go, they get pushed around too much.

It's way too early to write off Neal and Thibs, but they are looking like busts.

Jermaine Johnson returning from IR and looking better than Thibs or Ojulari made me think what the fuck is going on with the Giants.

The NFL drafting in general makes.me think what the fuck the Giants have been doing at times. 

Why do teams get impact players like Parsons day one when we struggle with guys like This and Neal. 

Barkley was the last one I can think of and he's been the only once since then. 

 

 

[mastershake]

16 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Jermaine Johnson returning from IR and looking better than Thibs or Ojulari made me think what the fuck is going on with the Giants.

The NFL drafting in general makes.me think what the fuck the Giants have been doing at times. 

Why do teams get impact players like Parsons day one when we struggle with guys like This and Neal. 

Barkley was the last one I can think of and he's been the only once since then. 

 

 

Plus we're paying $32M to Leonard Williams, who's playing like he should be making a few million at best. Thanks DG for that one.

[Iceman_NYG]

Here's my final feeling after the letting a lot of mind dust settling - Giants looked good on the 1st drive - but then the FG block, then INT return for TD deflated the fuck out of them and Im still skeptical about the footwear the teams were using. I think we arent as bad as it looked - we bounce back super strong this week.

[gmenroc]

I think that's generally true...not as bad as it seemed for is and not as good as it seemed for Dallas.

That said, I am not gonna sugar coat the line play on both sides of the ball as being anything more than absolutely pathetic.  And now, the pathetic players that started are injured in some cases, prompting a new, presumably more pathetic group to start.

I am not saying all hope is lost, but we have all taken a big step away from the sunshine and rainbows end of the optimism scale...and for good reason