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Giants @ Seattle


CrazedDogs
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I love Eli as much as the next fan but let's not pretend he was not a turnover machine himself.    Didn't he average like 1 interception per game over the span of his career?     I'm reminded that this is a team sport.    Just from my own observation, I feel DJ has been a better QB so far in his career than Eli given all the pieces around each player.   I'm not saying DJ is the second coming of Christ, but players do get better with more experience... We just saw Geno Smith play really well.   The Seahawks took out our running game and challenged us to throw it... there were no catchers out there.    And the 2 fumbles are what killed us.    

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2 hours ago, Nas said:

I love Eli as much as the next fan but let's not pretend he was not a turnover machine himself.    Didn't he average like 1 interception per game over the span of his career?     I'm reminded that this is a team sport.    Just from my own observation, I feel DJ has been a better QB so far in his career than Eli given all the pieces around each player.   I'm not saying DJ is the second coming of Christ, but players do get better with more experience... We just saw Geno Smith play really well.   The Seahawks took out our running game and challenged us to throw it... there were no catchers out there.    And the 2 fumbles are what killed us.    

At the very least, DJ has been put in one of the worst situations I've ever seen a drafted QB be placed in (minus maybe Tim Couch in 1999).

- 3 different coaches

- The worst and most inconsistent OLs in giants history the last 4-5 years (really going back further, but these OLs were abysmal)

- Talent around him not there and/or frequently injured (e.g. Barkley, Shepherd, Toney, Golladay)

- Engram, the guy who doesn't know if he's playing football or volleyball, drove at least 2 or 3 of his interceptions.

Plus his own injuries as well.

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5 minutes ago, mastershake said:

At the very least, DJ has been put in one of the worst situations I've ever seen a drafted QB be placed in (minus maybe Tim Couch in 1999).

- 3 different coaches

- The worst and most inconsistent OLs in giants history the last 4-5 years (really going back further, but these OLs were abysmal)

- Talent around him not there and/or frequently injured (e.g. Barkley, Shepherd, Toney, Golladay)

- Engram, the guy who doesn't know if he's playing football or volleyball, drove at least 2 or 3 of his interceptions.

Plus his own injuries as well.

Yep.   And his own injuries mainly stem from him trying to make something out of nothing... I'm no fan of a QB taking hits like that... It will ensure his durability will be that of a running back.  

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17 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Yeah that's essentially what I'm saying. They really came through down the stretch.


Eli had to have an mvp caliber season for them to even still be in contention down the stretch.  

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9 minutes ago, The P said:


Eli had to have an mvp caliber season for them to even still be in contention down the stretch.  

That's fair, but again, he had solid talent around him that year. Guys like Nicks and Cruz were studs before their injury issues, for instance.

The D was also clutch down the stretch too.

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3 hours ago, mastershake said:

Go back and watch like the last 6 games (minus the SF game) where they went on a tear, and where the running game was also generally good.

Plus in general, we had the 9th ranked offense that season by points.

They played well down the stretch. It wasn't just Eli. Go check out the highlights of key plays in those games and he has loads of time to throw in most instances, plus again the ground game.

uh, lol, well again, I literally did go back and watch those games. I stand by my critique of the 2011 OL. 

Even playing 'better' later in the season doesn't equate to good or adequate. They were fucking horrible at the end, and abysmal at the beginning. And we were so fucking lucky they only faced one team with a legit pass rush during that run. 

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2 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

uh, lol, well again, I literally did go back and watch those games. I stand by my critique of the 2011 OL. 

Even playing 'better' later in the season doesn't equate to good or adequate. They were fucking horrible at the end, and abysmal at the beginning. And we were so fucking lucky they only faced one team with a legit pass rush during that run. 

No, agreed.   They had to peel Eli off the turf in SF multiple times.   I guess the argument is that at least Eli had Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, and (forgot the the of our TE back then... reminds of Bellinger).  

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19 minutes ago, Nas said:

No, agreed.   They had to peel Eli off the turf in SF multiple times.   I guess the argument is that at least Eli had Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, and (forgot the the of our TE back then... reminds of Bellinger).  

yeah you'll get no argument from me on that, that WR group was miles beyond what we have now. They were as good or better than that OL was bad. 

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5 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Give Jones that 2011 team with Cruz, Nicks, Manningham, Bradshaw, Jacobs, etc and even with that OL, Jones does far better than now.


 

He does far better than now, but not nearly as good as Eli did. 

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DJ needs 1 good quality WR to stretch the field - that automatically opens up a variety of things we can try with a All-World RB and mobile QB.

 

Did anyone see that fucking FAKE Fade Route that DK ran yesterday, which resulted in the Walker TD?? Fucking hell. The CB just totally bit on it and didnt even look back to see that the ball had been handed off. Brilliant fake Fade route

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1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

I think in 2011 it was Jake Ballard. Boss had a good run, hated to see him leave in free agency.

Boss was a hell of a TE and a great safety net for Eli but the dude was always hurt lol don't think he ever finished a full season, but played when it mattered during the SB run.

Ballard was another who's career was cut short by injuries his was an ACL tear? Or broken leg? Can't recall.

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On 10/31/2022 at 9:38 AM, Nas said:

I love Eli as much as the next fan but let's not pretend he was not a turnover machine himself.    Didn't he average like 1 interception per game over the span of his career?     I'm reminded that this is a team sport.    Just from my own observation, I feel DJ has been a better QB so far in his career than Eli given all the pieces around each player.   I'm not saying DJ is the second coming of Christ, but players do get better with more experience... We just saw Geno Smith play really well.   The Seahawks took out our running game and challenged us to throw it... there were no catchers out there.    And the 2 fumbles are what killed us.    

I loved Eli, but the whole "he made everyone around him better" argument I don't think holds any water.  His last few seasons were terrible... not because he was a bad player, but because the team surrounded him with garbage.  Look at Aaron Rodgers today and you'll see something similar (though Eli's teams were much worse towards the end).  It's true that the players that left the team didn't do as well once they left, but that's because most of them were on their fifth ACL tear. 

It's a team sport;  your good play can make others play better, but that has its limits. No one guy is going to just automatically elevate the play of everyone else that much. 

 

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Here is a closer breakdown of every Manning touchdown pass:

REGULAR SEASON (366)

1: Jerell Adams, Bennie Fowler, Wayne Gallman, Henry Hynoski, TJ Jones, Cody Latimer, Louis Murphy, Bear Pascoe, Marcellus Rivers, Adrien Robinson, Da’rell Scott, Hunter Sharp, Russell Shepard, Visanthe Schiancoe, Scott Simonson, Golden Tate, Derrick Ward, David Wilson, Corey Washington

2: Tim Carter, Derek Hagan, Madison Hedgecock, Rashad Jennings, Jerrell Jernigan, Darcy Johnson, Sinorice Moss, Preston Parker
 

3: Tiki Barber, Saquon Barkley, Travis Beckum, Ahmad Bradshaw, Rhett Ellison, Darius Slayton, Tavarres King

4: Jake Ballard, Daniel Fells, Brandon Jacobs, Roger Lewis, Brandon Myers, Will Tye, David Tyree, Shane Vereen

5: Martellus Bennett, Dwayne Harris, Domenik Hixon

9: Larry Donnell, Evan Engram

11: Steve Smith

14: Sterling Shepard

17: Amani Toomer

18: Kevin Boss, Mario Manningham

19: Jeremy Shockey

20: Rueben Randle

25: Victor Cruz

26: Hakeem Nicks

33: Plaxico Burress

44: Odell Beckham

PLAYOFFS (18)

4: Nicks

3: Burress, Manningham, Toomer

1: Cruz, King, Jacobs, Pascoe, Tyree

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