Not gonna lie, this draft was pretty disappointing.

[Sephiroth]

I loved the first two picks.  I think Toney will be a difference-maker and I was pretty stoked that Ojulari was available when we picked in the second.  I also love the picks we have next year, but looking at how the bottom-half of the draft played out, I'm not sure I trust the front office to do the most with them.  My disappointments: 

3rd - Aaron Robinson - honestly he looks like he might develop into a nice player, but we're already stacked in the defensive backfield.  Josh Palmer (WR) and Tommy Tremble (TE) are not only going to be better NFL players in my opinion, but they fill much bigger needs on the team... not to mention Nico Collins (WR),  Ronnie Perkins (EDGE), and Ben Cleveland(G), who will all be good starters in the league.  I don't get it. I especially don't get why we traded away our 5th to get him when there were so many good players still on the board either. 

4th - Elerson Smith - Looks like he has the potential to develop into a nice player. I probably would have swung for the fences here though with Tommy Togiai or gone safe with Rashad Weaver.  The latter is going to be a very serviceable DE in the league; Togiai is a boom-or-bust type. 

6th - Gary Brightwell and Rodarius Williams - it's not like these guys fell and were amazing value here, and to me, Brightwell wasn't even the best RB left... that was Rountree, who went a few picks later.  Brightwell looks the part but from all the reports I've read, he's got terrible vision (I've always said the most underrated trait for RBs).  As far as Rodarius WIlliams... how many fucking corners do we need with a bona fide playmaker like Marquez Stevenson sitting there?  Also bummed that Deonte Brown went a few picks before the Brightwell pick. 

Still some great players left, but with no 7th this year we don't really have a shot at them and have to hope they end up as free agents. 

 

Overall I'd give this draft a C-.  Very disappointed. 

[Virginia Giant]

I'm really happy with the first 3 players we got, I can buy the excitement for the 4th guy - but my excitement for players selected in rds 4-7 is capped as experiments who will hopefully contribute in small ways. 

Our first 3 picks netted guys who apparently all the experts say will contribute pretty much right away and become above average starters at least - according to the experts.  In addition to that, two picks in the first 3 rds next year, one being a 1st rd pick that might be top 15. 

This has been one of my favorite drafts in a while.  This feels like that 2005 draft where long-time starters were picked into the 4th rd.  Of course I know shit about any of these guys and I'm just going by expert analysis and highlights.

The final 3 rds is pretty much pull names from a hat, one of them might be on the team in 3 years, 2 of them might be in the league in 3 years.

[Sephiroth]

14 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

I'm really happy with the first 3 players we got, I can buy the excitement for the 4th guy - but my excitement for players selected in rds 4-7 is capped as experiments who will hopefully contribute in small ways. 

Our first 3 picks netted guys who apparently all the experts say will contribute pretty much right away and become above average starters at least - according to the experts.  In addition to that, two picks in the first 3 rds next year, one being a 1st rd pick that might be top 15. 

This has been one of my favorite drafts in a while.  This feels like that 2005 draft where long-time starters were picked into the 4th rd.  Of course I know shit about any of these guys and I'm just going by expert analysis and highlights.

The final 3 rds is pretty much pull names from a hat, one of them might be on the team in 3 years, 2 of them might be in the league in 3 years.

I felt like we really had one glaring weakness going into the draft, and that was interior OL.  We did nothing to address it. 

Looks like another long season for the offense.... tough to run or throw the ball when there's a DT five yards in the backfield on every play, and Lemieux and Hernandez don't look like NFL starters. 

[mastershake]

I think the players we got should end up fairly good.

The problem I have obviously is we didn't address the highly questionable OL.

[Tempest]

Sounds like you really dug in on this draft and spent the time to study a number of guys for each round.  I wonder if you were looking at players just based on the position they played over being the best player available.  Of all the picks, Brightwell is the one I don't see on the roster in September.

Robinson & Williams will see the field this year because it is a passing league and injuries deplete NFL secondary's rapidly as the season progresses.  I also expect them to have a role on special teams.  Elerson Smith could be taking B.J. Hill's spot this year.

[BlueInCanada]

Like evey year after the draft, everyone is a pro bowler day one.

We act like these guys or other guys we passed on will be good, or relevant but the truth is we really don't.

In three year will know for sure, if this guy we passed on will be worth it or not.

Until then another draft in the book now comes the best part grabbing up the UDFAs. 

 

[BlueInCanada]

Also I like the Robinson move.

He will probably be the day one starting slot corner or eventually be worked into the rotation.

I mean we now have a secondary stacked with talent which is something you need in the NFL, and we can kick guys like Beal, Yaidom to the curb where they belong.

Smith was a value move, Azeez OJ will be a standing edge rusher, he won't have his first in the dirt. Smith fills an immediate need at DE since Odenigbo is on a one year deal.

The RB is a interesting, had an undrafted grade but obviously the Giants didn't want him to hit the UDFA market.

The final CB we took I mean who really cares wasting a flyer on a sixth round pick isn't going to make it break this team, once again obviously a player the Giants feel brings value and wanted to not hit the UDFA pool. 

All in all good draft IMO days one and two were out of this park moves.

Day three we had three picks late in the draft, it isn't a time to be drafting need but who you think is the BPA.

[Mr. P]

To me it’s as good as any draft.  I don’t know shit about scouting players or running a football team.  

[mastershake]

The % likelihood of a 4th round or later draft pick starting more than 40 games in their career is so miniscule that it's not worth getting upset about any draft pick in rounds 4-7. The vast vast majority of these guys will be backups at best.

[Virginia Giant]

2 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Like evey year after the draft, everyone is a pro bowler day one.

We act like these guys or other guys we passed on will be good, or relevant but the truth is we really don't.

In three year will know for sure, if this guy we passed on will be worth it or not.

Until then another draft in the book now comes the best part grabbing up the UDFAs. 

 

I can remember a few years ago JoMo pissed we didn't draft that LB because we ignored the LB group for years, he went in the 4rd round to the bears and I think he's out of the league now.

Me, I was all in on Clint Sintim several years ago in the 1st rd, we got him in the 2nd and he flamed out pretty much immediately. 

 

[Virginia Giant]

Looking at various mock drafts and 4for4.com mocked Oijulari to us at 11.

https://www.4for4.com/2021/preseason/2021-nfl-mock-draft

[Herc]

Can’t have too many corners.  Injury rate is high and teams run 3-4 wr sets regularly 

[Sephiroth]

7 hours ago, Herc said:

Can’t have too many corners.  Injury rate is high and teams run 3-4 wr sets regularly 

I agree, and I remember that we were still in that Green Bay playoff game until DRC went down.

On the other hand though... we're one injury away from having no recieving TE (I'd argue we don't have one right now). We're another from essentially having last year's WR and RB corps. We have no starting RG on the team. Let's not forget too that our big 3 playmakers (Barkley, Golladay, Engram) have spent significant portions of their careers on IR.

Evaluating Jones is supposed to be a priority this season but right now he's got no starting caliber interior O-linemen. Knowing what we've got with him (especially with the possibility to trade up.and draft a QB next season now viable) is more important than drafting our 4th or 5th corner or more pass rushers (the defense was fine without them last year).

These guys do this for a living, but last time I was this down on a draft we had McAdoo's final season.

 

[gmenroc]

51 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I agree, and I remember that we were still in that Green Bay playoff game until DRC went down.

On the other hand though... we're one injury away from having no recieving TE (I'd argue we don't have one right now). We're another from essentially having last year's WR and RB corps. We have no starting RG on the team. Let's not forget too that our big 3 playmakers (Barkley, Golladay, Engram) have spent significant portions of their careers on IR.

Evaluating Jones is supposed to be a priority this season but right now he's got no starting caliber interior O-linemen. Knowing what we've got with him (especially with the possibility to trade up.and draft a QB next season now viable) is more important than drafting our 4th or 5th corner or more pass rushers (the defense was fine without them last year).

These guys do this for a living, but last time I was this down on a draft we had McAdoo's final season.

 

Kyle Rudolph can catch.

Booker and the rookie can back up Barkley although I wish we'd have kept Gallman.

I would hope and expect some offensive line depth added as teams widdle down their rosters and cut vets

[mastershake]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I agree, and I remember that we were still in that Green Bay playoff game until DRC went down.

On the other hand though... we're one injury away from having no recieving TE (I'd argue we don't have one right now). We're another from essentially having last year's WR and RB corps. We have no starting RG on the team. Let's not forget too that our big 3 playmakers (Barkley, Golladay, Engram) have spent significant portions of their careers on IR.

Evaluating Jones is supposed to be a priority this season but right now he's got no starting caliber interior O-linemen. Knowing what we've got with him (especially with the possibility to trade up.and draft a QB next season now viable) is more important than drafting our 4th or 5th corner or more pass rushers (the defense was fine without them last year).

These guys do this for a living, but last time I was this down on a draft we had McAdoo's final season.

 

This season could just as easily go bad as it could good. A 10 loss season is very possible, but to me this roster on paper seems more like an 8-8 team....10-6 if we had a competent OL...I'm shaving off two wins just because the OL is so mediocre.

[BlueInCanada]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I agree, and I remember that we were still in that Green Bay playoff game until DRC went down.

On the other hand though... we're one injury away from having no recieving TE (I'd argue we don't have one right now). We're another from essentially having last year's WR and RB corps. We have no starting RG on the team. Let's not forget too that our big 3 playmakers (Barkley, Golladay, Engram) have spent significant portions of their careers on IR.

Evaluating Jones is supposed to be a priority this season but right now he's got no starting caliber interior O-linemen. Knowing what we've got with him (especially with the possibility to trade up.and draft a QB next season now viable) is more important than drafting our 4th or 5th corner or more pass rushers (the defense was fine without them last year).

These guys do this for a living, but last time I was this down on a draft we had McAdoo's final season.

 

Keep in mind a draft doesn't make or break a season for a team like the Giants.

We arent SB contenders, we might not even be playoff contenders, we are still trying to amass talent and then DEVELOP that talent.

The draft isnt for adding pieces that get you over the edge, that's what FA is for, it's for getting the cheap core of the team together, and hoopefully getting one or two guys every year that stick around and play well.

Show me any team that can lose it's #1 WR and be fine? Or their #1TE? That's in the same position of the Giants. Very few teams in the NFL can have that luxury and they are the ones that are already in playoff contention.

The Bucs lose Evans, Gronk and Fornette, they will probably be ok, but once again they are SB champs who don't need to find a winning roster and can just keep adding pieces around them.

Now lets say a team like the Cardinals who are in somewhat of the same era of the Giants, suddenly lost Nuk, and Green, their season is pretty much down the toilet, because much like the Giants they are still trying to build a winning roster.

Edit;

I'm not saying the Giants did everything right this draft, not that DG/Mara made the best decisions for this franchise.

But I think of it like, look at the Giants in 2006, the team was in the playoffs two years in a row but couldn't get over the hump and win a game. They add the 2007 draft class which helped them get over that hump and had some key contributors to that SB run.

The Giants arent in that position, we are just trying to get back to the playoffs.

[BlueInCanada]

Also one of the reasons the Giants are in the position they are in is because they reached for need instead of talent over the JR years.

Flowers, Pugh, Bass, Engram, Apple, etc. All these guys were picked simply because of the need or weakness of the roster.

None of them worked out.

Granted this could be contributed to poor scouting/coaching/etc but the same can be said of any draft pick that succeeds or fails in the NFL.....outside of being a complete idiots like Baker, or a medical condition like Wilson.

I don't know every year teams "win/loose" the NFL draft, yet four years later these drafts meant very little in the long run of things.

[Sephiroth]

2 hours ago, gmenroc said:

Kyle Rudolph can catch.

 

He can. He also likely to start the season on the PUP list.

43 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Keep in mind a draft doesn't make or break a season for a team like the Giants.

We arent SB contenders, we might not even be playoff contenders, we are still trying to amass talent and then DEVELOP that talent.

The draft isnt for adding pieces that get you over the edge, that's what FA is for, it's for getting the cheap core of the team together, and hoopefully getting one or two guys every year that stick around and play well.

Show me any team that can lose it's #1 WR and be fine? Or their #1TE? That's in the same position of the Giants. Very few teams in the NFL can have that luxury and they are the ones that are already in playoff contention.

The Bucs lose Evans, Gronk and Fornette, they will probably be ok, but once again they are SB champs who don't need to find a winning roster and can just keep adding pieces around them.

Now lets say a team like the Cardinals who are in somewhat of the same era of the Giants, suddenly lost Nuk, and Green, their season is pretty much down the toilet, because much like the Giants they are still trying to build a winning roster.

Edit;

I'm not saying the Giants did everything right this draft, not that DG/Mara made the best decisions for this franchise.

But I think of it like, look at the Giants in 2006, the team was in the playoffs two years in a row but couldn't get over the hump and win a game. They add the 2007 draft class which helped them get over that hump and had some key contributors to that SB run.

The Giants arent in that position, we are just trying to get back to the playoffs.

I disagree. The 2007 Giants didn't look like a Super Bowl team , but when Shockey got hurt, Kevin Boss was a more than adequate replacement. When Bradshaw was given more reps, he produced. Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, even Alford, DeOssie, and Michael Johnson contributed greatly to that run.

The 2011 team... ok, you've got a point.  That rookie class was straight dogshit.

My point though is that we have a decent-to-good center and two backup guards starting, with not even a "promising rookie with potential" behind them, and thin talent at the skill positions. It's not difficult to envision many scenarios where the offense (and our season) is derailed. 

[mastershake]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

He can. He also likely to start the season on the PUP list.

I disagree. The 2007 Giants didn't look like a Super Bowl team , but when Shockey got hurt, Kevin Boss was a more than adequate replacement. When Bradshaw was given more reps, he produced. Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, even Alford, DeOssie, and Michael Johnson contributed greatly to that run.

The 2011 team... ok, you've got a point.  That rookie class was straight dogshit.

My point though is that we have a decent-to-good center and two backup guards starting, with not even a "promising rookie with potential" behind them, and thin talent at the skill positions. It's not difficult to envision many scenarios where the offense (and our season) is derailed. 

This...plus a developing RT who could be hit or miss.

The team could easily be a losing team thanks to a lackluster offense.

DG after the draft: The Giants did not address offensive line in the draft. GM Dave Gettleman: “It’s really apparent that we have a little more confidence in our offensive linemen players than you guys do.” 

In other words, they're delusional.

[JayD]

Far as I’m concerned, and I know you guys have been chomping at the bit to get my insight  lol this draft was a home run. 
 

I don’t really care much what happens after the third round, it’s rare anything comes from the guys past it. All three look like they could develop into good players. 
 

Sure I would have liked to see a offensive lineman in the top 3, but last year we went heavy Oline in the draft. At some point you have to go with what you have. 
 

I think some of you are underestimating the improvements the line made during the coarse of last year. Most of these guys are really young, and I see no reason to believe that won’t continue. I can see them being at least average by seasons end. Bottom line, we really needed play makers. Between FA and this draft, NTM Barkely coming back we certainly have some now. 
 

Have a great slot guy. We have a couple deep threats, and that should back defenses off enough to run the ball effectively. Remember we were just a few dropped passes away from winning some of those games last year. I can see a 10-11 game win record. In this division that should be more than enough to earn a playoff spot. 

[Tempest]

48 minutes ago, JayD said:

Far as I’m concerned, and I know you guys have been chomping at the bit to get my insight  lol this draft was a home run. 
 

I don’t really care much what happens after the third round, it’s rare anything comes from the guys past it. All three look like they could develop into good players. 
 

Sure I would have liked to see a offensive lineman in the top 3, but last year we went heavy Oline in the draft. At some point you have to go with what you have. 
 

I think some of you are underestimating the improvements the line made during the coarse of last year. Most of these guys are really young, and I see no reason to believe that won’t continue. I can see them being at least average by seasons end. Bottom line, we really needed play makers. Between FA and this draft, NTM Barkely coming back we certainly have some now. 
 

Have a great slot guy. We have a couple deep threats, and that should back defenses off enough to run the ball effectively. Remember we were just a few dropped passes away from winning some of those games last year. I can see a 10-11 game win record. In this division that should be more than enough to earn a playoff spot. 

agreed

[jranieli]

59 minutes ago, JayD said:

Far as I’m concerned, and I know you guys have been chomping at the bit to get my insight  lol this draft was a home run. 
 

I don’t really care much what happens after the third round, it’s rare anything comes from the guys past it. All three look like they could develop into good players. 
 

Sure I would have liked to see a offensive lineman in the top 3, but last year we went heavy Oline in the draft. At some point you have to go with what you have. 
 

I think some of you are underestimating the improvements the line made during the coarse of last year. Most of these guys are really young, and I see no reason to believe that won’t continue. I can see them being at least average by seasons end. Bottom line, we really needed play makers. Between FA and this draft, NTM Barkely coming back we certainly have some now. 
 

Have a great slot guy. We have a couple deep threats, and that should back defenses off enough to run the ball effectively. Remember we were just a few dropped passes away from winning some of those games last year. I can see a 10-11 game win record. In this division that should be more than enough to earn a playoff spot. 

Spot on

[Sephiroth]

59 minutes ago, JayD said:

Sure I would have liked to see a offensive lineman in the top 3, but last year we went heavy Oline in the draft. At some point you have to go with what you have. 

First of all, it's great to see you my man.

I've been hearing this line of thinking quite a bit, and my problem with it is that it still doesn't jive. In the three drafts Gettleman had before this one, he's selected three O-linemen. In those same drafts, he's picked seven DBs.  Last year, our defensive backfield was a strength, with two excellent starters, a promising rookie backup, a serviceable swing guy, and now two starting caliber corners to pair with two nice looking slot CBs. We even have a 3rd round supplemental guy that you can hope for if you wanna throw him in.

On the line? We got rid of our best player and replaced him with the Texans worst lineman. At center and LT, we have two guys who look pretty good, but the rest of the line is either us hoping other guys pan out or hoping below-average players suddenly look better than they have to this point.

I always say the team with the least amount of "ifs" is the one who'll win the division, but right now on offense it's, "If the LT and C are for real and if we can fine a Guard and if the RT pans out and if the QB finally gains some pocket presence and is for real we might be pretty good."

That's way too many "ifs" for my liking. For the record, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[BlueInCanada]

12 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

First of all, it's great to see you my man.

I've been hearing this line of thinking quite a bit, and my problem with it is that it still doesn't jive. In the three drafts Gettleman had before this one, he's selected three O-linemen. In those same drafts, he's picked seven DBs.  Last year, our defensive backfield was a strength, with two excellent starters, a promising rookie backup, a serviceable swing guy, and now two starting caliber corners to pair with two nice looking slot CBs. We even have a 3rd round supplemental guy that you can hope for if you wanna throw him in.

On the line? We got rid of our best player and replaced him with the Texans worst lineman. At center and LT, we have two guys who look pretty good, but the rest of the line is either us hoping other guys pan out or hoping below-average players suddenly look better than they have to this point.

I always say the team with the least amount of "ifs" is the one who'll win the division, but right now on offense it's, "If the LT and C are for real and if we can fine a Guard and if the RT pans out and if the QB finally gains some pocket presence and is for real we might be pretty good."

That's way too many "ifs" for my liking. For the record, I hope I'm wrong.

 

The thing is though you don't just draft for need, that's how you end up with the 2013 to 2018 Giants.

The opportunity to improve the Oline was free agency (can still happen with post draft cuts and trades) 

The chance that a first round or later Olineman comes in and changes the way the Oline is the same chance that this group gets better, the Giants are rolling with the latter.

You talk about "ifs" but the Giants just made sure there isn't a single if on this team outside of the Oline this offseason.

The rest is just stuff they can't control that every team has to worry, and I'm willing to bet they try to fix a few of these ifs before the season starts. 

Not saying I disagree with you fully, the Oline is a concern but if that's the only concern on this team going forward from this point, it's not a terrible problem to have. 

I think Jones is the biggest if we need to figure out this season anyways because regardless of the Oline play, he still needs to step up because even when he had time last year he looked hit and miss.

 

[JayD]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

First of all, it's great to see you my man.

I've been hearing this line of thinking quite a bit, and my problem with it is that it still doesn't jive. In the three drafts Gettleman had before this one, he's selected three O-linemen. In those same drafts, he's picked seven DBs.  Last year, our defensive backfield was a strength, with two excellent starters, a promising rookie backup, a serviceable swing guy, and now two starting caliber corners to pair with two nice looking slot CBs. We even have a 3rd round supplemental guy that you can hope for if you wanna throw him in.

On the line? We got rid of our best player and replaced him with the Texans worst lineman. At center and LT, we have two guys who look pretty good, but the rest of the line is either us hoping other guys pan out or hoping below-average players suddenly look better than they have to this point.

I always say the team with the least amount of "ifs" is the one who'll win the division, but right now on offense it's, "If the LT and C are for real and if we can fine a Guard and if the RT pans out and if the QB finally gains some pocket presence and is for real we might be pretty good."

That's way too many "ifs" for my liking. For the record, I hope I'm wrong.

 

Great to see you as well brother. 
 

No I feel ya. It just might end up doing nothing to improve the line will bite us in the ass. That’s certainly possible. I just think with how competitive we were in many of those loses last year, these new guys could be the difference. Maybe not blowing out teams, but being the one who kicked the last second field goal to win, instead of that happening to us. 
 

I think this is a better team than it was last year. I also think the defense is gonna be lights out. We might not be ready for the big show yet, but I think we will see a playoff game or two. 
 

Crossing fingers.