Reese and Coughlin speak out about the TE situation

[BleedinBlue]

From Newsday: (http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/t-rock-s-take-on-the-giants-1.811990/giants-go-through-whole-draft-without-taking-a-tight-end-1.7984743}

 

Giants go through whole draft without taking a tight end

Saturday May 10, 2014 10:31 PM By Thomas Rock

 

If you thought the Giants' pre-draft talk about not needing a flashy new tight end from this year's crop of incoming players was a smokescreen, well, the joke is on you. Because seven picks later, the Giants still have the same four largely unproven players at the position (although they do appear to be signing undrafted free agent Xavier Grimble from USC, the official announcement of which will probably come tomorrow or Monday).

 

So how do we go from so many mock drafts calling for the Giants to select Eric Ebron in the first round to them not even paying attention to the position?

 

"We need a tight end or we need this or we need that," vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross said. "You get seven picks, and you can’t take everything you need. You can't have first round picks at every pick that you want and things that you think you need. The tight end position wasn't a class we felt was very strong. Even with a couple of the guys there are things that to the outside eye you don’t know about some of these guys that devalue them even more."

 

The Giants do seem to be at a crossroads with their position. They want big athletic players who can block and catch for the spot - Tom Coughlin called them do-everything "Supermen" – but colleges just aren't producing them anymore. It's like needing parts for your 1983 Datsun. Good luck finding them.

 

"It is worrisome when you look at the draft and, for example, you go to the Combine and you see all these numbers at all these different positions and then the tight end numbers are (just not there)," Coughlin said. "That's a little bit scary. Where are those guys? Where did they go? What are they doing? Are they playing defensive end? What are they doing right now?"

 

Coughlin said the Giants can't go to training camp with just four tight ends (five if you count Grimble). So they will be on the hunt for more. Perhaps Jermichael Finley will be available to them if he is medically cleared in the coming weeks.

 

But general manager Jerry Reese did not seem to think that the Giants would be splurging on the position.

 

"I said this a couple times already, we have a couple tight ends, young guys, who we want to stay healthy and we've tried to develop and it's time for those guys to get out there and help us," Reese said, a pretty clear reference to former fourth-round pick Adrien Robinson who is entering his third NFL season without a career reception (the roster also includes Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells and Kellen Davis). "We've had tight ends that we've been able to develop in the past ... You have to put them out there and you have to develop guys at some point. It would be great if you could have guys ready-made that could come in and just line up and be fantastic blockers and fantastic receivers but sometimes it doesn't work that way. Whatever the skill set is, you've got to bring them in and work to their skill set and you have to play the hand you’re dealt and win with it. That’s just part of the business.”

 

In other words, for Robinson, the time to shine is at hand. Or it will soon be time to go.

 

"Adrien is very sharp and is able to count," Coughlin said. "He's on the field with (three other) guys."

 

It could have been more than that if the Giants had drafted a tight end. Or, more to the point, if the Giants had found a tight end they considered "draft-worthy".

 

"In personnel, sometimes you can't get everything," Reese said. "You can't just waive a magic wand and a tight end will show up."

[JMFP]

I'm happy they passed on TE...time for Robinson to earn his spot....same with Donnell

[BleedinBlue]

I'm happy they passed on TE...time for Robinson to earn his spot....same with Donnell

I wasn't at first, but after hearing TC and Reese explain, I understand it. It would be great if you could have a stud at every position, but that's just not reality and they are right, colleges are not developing TE's like the old days, and this was a very weak class of TE's to boot...although, I think Niklas or Amaro might surprise. When you get an 6'6" athlete, he is groomed to be a DE or OT or if only 6'4", a linebacker. The Giants are going to have to develop one. The Witten's and Gronks are extremely few and far between and a luxury if you are at the right spot at the right time to grab one of them. Neither of them were first round draft picks. Hopefully, the Giants will turn a couple of our current guys into good TE's.

[Herc]

i feel like using a 1st round pick on a TE is something you do when you didn't just go 6-10

[BlueInCanada]

I don't have a problem with them not taking a TE, outside of Ebron and some of the second round guys none of them are really standouts or starters, atleast from a draft perspective.

 

I would like to see some FA TEs come in, I know we got Kellen? That journyman TE who I can see starting the year. I have no faith in Robinson, I hated the pick when we drafted him and I don't think he will become anything more then a serviceable backup but for a fourth round pick that's what you would want anyways.

 

I'd like to see a push for Finley is he's healthy, reuniting him and MacADoodle will be nice to have. At the same time I don't think TE is a pressing need as some are making it out to be. We have a plethora of Oline players who can come in and block in heavy packages, plus with drafting Odell the Giant's are embracing the west coast offence with having a roster of WRs who can stick to short passing routes.

 

Besides with the Giant's luck of getting guys like Boss, Ballad and Pascoe, maybe they get some FA walk on to be an unexpected surprise.

[JMFP]

I wasn't at first, but after hearing TC and Reese explain, I understand it. It would be great if you could have a stud at every position, but that's just not reality and they are right, colleges are not developing TE's like the old days, and this was a very weak class of TE's to boot...although, I think Niklas or Amaro might surprise. When you get an 6'6" athlete, he is groomed to be a DE or OT or if only 6'4", a linebacker. The Giants are going to have to develop one. The Witten's and Gronks are extremely few and far between and a luxury if you are at the right spot at the right time to grab one of them. Neither of them were first round draft picks. Hopefully, the Giants will turn a couple of our current guys into good TE's.

 

 

I don't have a problem with them not taking a TE, outside of Ebron and some of the second round guys none of them are really standouts or starters, atleast from a draft perspective.

 

I would like to see some FA TEs come in, I know we got Kellen? That journyman TE who I can see starting the year. I have no faith in Robinson, I hated the pick when we drafted him and I don't think he will become anything more then a serviceable backup but for a fourth round pick that's what you would want anyways.

 

I'd like to see a push for Finley is he's healthy, reuniting him and MacADoodle will be nice to have. At the same time I don't think TE is a pressing need as some are making it out to be. We have a plethora of Oline players who can come in and block in heavy packages, plus with drafting Odell the Giant's are embracing the west coast offence with having a roster of WRs who can stick to short passing routes.

 

Besides with the Giant's luck of getting guys like Boss, Ballad and Pascoe, maybe they get some FA walk on to be an unexpected surprise.

 

McAdoo cut his teeth as a tight end coach..... I would imagine he, Coughlin, Ross, Marc, etc., had a plan going into the draft that said unless some absolute stud falls to them in the draft, they are going to try to develop the guys in house and/or brIng in guys post-draft free agency.

 

I see Bear Pascoe as an example of that approach.....he's been on the team a while, and has been serviceable, but is clearly not an impact player.....time for him to move on and give guys like Robinson and Donnell some reps.

 

Kellen Davis is going to be their blocking tight end.....6-7, 265 pounds, and a good blocker. I watched enough of him out of Chicago to tell you this dude is not a passing weapon. But as you noted, Eli has gotten production out of some very average guys. Still though, even if the pass is there, Kellen Davis might not catch it....that's been the knock on him in Chicago.

[Herc]

yeah kellen davis is useless in the passing game outside of the red zone. i'm interested to see what the gameplan here is

[JMFP]

Recent article on Davis (just prior to the 2014 Draft).....

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2014/04/kellen_davis_what_can_the_tight_end_give_the_giants.html

 

 

 

Signing a tight end doesn't mean the Giants are set at tight end. Far from it, actually. It really only highlights their need to address the position in the NFL Draft.

 

Kellen Davis, the Giants' newest free-agent signing, gives them a veteran body. He joins Adrien Robinson, Larry Donnell and Daniel Fells to create an underwhelming quartet of potential Eli Manning tight-end targets.

 

If Davis could live up to the expectations once bestowed on him, maybe the Giants could survive. There have been times where big things were expected from the former Bears and Seahawks tight end.

 

"I think if you want to feature Kellen Davis you can do that," said Lovie Smith, his former head coach in Chicago, prior to the 2012 season. "Great size, great in-line blocker, skilled enough of an athlete to be able to move outside and do some things. I really like him."

 

Davis had 19 catches for 299 yards and two touchdowns as a starter that season. Just over a year after Smith made those comments, Davis was released by the Bears.

Nothing in the year-plus since being cut indicates Smith was onto something with his assessment. Davis was dumped by the Browns last preseason and spent 2013 as the Seahawks' third-string tight end. He caught three passes for 32 yards this past season and was inactive for the Super Bowl.

 

At least Davis may be able contribute to the Giants as a blocker. Throughout his career, despite poor numbers last year, he's been considered an above-average blocker.

Here's his career grades as a blocker, according to Pro Football Focus. Clearly, there's been some good (look at his run-blocking in 2011) and some bad (his run-blocking in '13).

 

2013 (172 snaps)
Run Block -5.3
Pass Block -0.2

 

2012 (980 snaps)
Run Block -1.4
Pass Block +1.2

 

2011 (751 snaps)
Run Block +4.9
Pass Block +0.4

 

2010 (181 snaps)
Run Block +1.2
Pass Block +0.6

 

2009 (224 snaps)
Run Block +2.3
Pass Block -0.5

 

PFF also has a signature stat called Pass Blocking Efficiency (PBE). Davis had a 96.2 and 95.9 PBE in 2011 and '12, respectively. That was middle of the pack among the tight ends graded.

 

In comparison, Brandon Myers had a 94.6 PBE last season for the Giants. That ranked 24th of the 35 tight ends who logged at least 25 percent of their team's snaps.

 

Davis' primary problem in Chicago wasn't his blocking. It was his inconsistency catching the football. Some of the parting words from Bears' writers last year seems to tell the story.

 

Mark Potash, Chicago Sun-Times:
"Yes, that Kellen Davis. The one Lovie Smith thought could be a lethal weapon at tight end, except Davis too often couldn't hold onto the football."

"With the Bears, Davis occasionally made plays downfield that captured the imagination. But too often those hopes were dashed by a key drop."

 

Vaughn McClure, Chicago Tribune:
"Davis, a former fifth-round draft pick from Michigan State whose release was announced by the team, never lived up to expectations despite being a big, athletic target."

The Bears had high hopes for the 6-foot-6, 259-pound tight end. His size and athleticism were intriguing. He fit the part.

 

"Davis is the most physically imposing tight end in the 2008 draft. Blessed with rare size, strength and overall athleticism, he has the combination of physical talent that every team is looking for," his 2008 NFL Combine breakdown said.

 

Physically, Davis compares favorably athletically coming out of college to North Carolina's Eric Ebron, who is expected to be the first tight end selected in this year's draft. Davis (6-foot-6, 259) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.60 seconds. Ebron (6-foot-4, 250) did the same.

 

Now if only Davis can resemble the player Ebron is expected to be at the pro level while in a Giants uniform. Then, maybe, they'll have something brewing at the tight end position, and they won't need to select Ebron with the 12th-overall pick.

 

[BleedinBlue]

I see Davis as Bear's replacement and little more. Now...if the other guys can catch a damn football, we can rotate and maybe build on that.

[JMFP]

I see Davis as Bear's replacement and little more. Now...if the other guys can catch a damn football, we can rotate and maybe build on that.

 

If McAdoo and Coughlin can improve Davis in the passing game, he could be a surprise in 2014. But otherwise, he's the guy you put in for pass protection and run blocking.

[Nas]

Robinson... I think he's the wild card in all of this...

[Mr. P]

I thought Donnell looked alright last season, wouldn't be surprised to see him above Robinson on the depth chart.

[BronxRik]

They never should have let the Black Unicorn go.

[MikeGL]

Yeah, no point going nuts on a TE. I think we could establish something with the guys we have.

[BleedinBlue]

This Xavier Grimble kid might work out much better than we think. He's said to be a terrific blocker and has big fly-paper hands. But he was never used right at USC where he got hosed by Lane Kiffin's handling of the roster he inherited after Pete Carrol got dismissed.

 

Those in the California area on other boards are calling him the "steal of the UDFA's". Time will tell.

[JMFP]

They never should have let the Black Unicorn go.

 

It was a mistake by Reese.

 

Bennett was asking for alot of money, but turns out he was worth the asking price, and the money Reese "saved" by letting him go was not justified.

[Giants Shredder]

Bennett.....let a good one get away but he did want the payday and who can blame him. All that time sitting in Dallas must have sucked

[JMFP]

Bennett.....let a good one get away but he did want the payday and who can blame him. All that time sitting in Dallas must have sucked

 

Yup....he was asking alot, but was worth it, especially considering how shitty our bargain bin replacement played.

 

I remember seeing KC blow up a running play with two tight ends, and thought - "fuck, this is going to be a long season".

[Lughead]

This Xavier Grimble kid might work out much better than we think. He's said to be a terrific blocker and has big fly-paper hands. But he was never used right at USC where he got hosed by Lane Kiffin's handling of the roster he inherited after Pete Carrol got dismissed.

 

Those in the California area on other boards are calling him the "steal of the UDFA's". Time will tell.

So did we sign Grimble ?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egrPexio2Wg

[BleedinBlue]

So did we sign Grimble ?

Yes we did.

 

The first two signings by the Giants (from what I've read) were Grimble and Quarles - both have a good chance of making the team.

[boohyah]

Owen Daniels was sitting on his ass for weeks and we just sat on our hands and then he was gone.

 

How we went the whole draft without picking someone up at TE is just strange.

[Gman329]

I guess it comes down to the usual value judgment, risk/reward paradigm. Overpaying for a name in free agency or reaching in the draft for a guy that you don't feel 100% positive about was a less attractive option than rolling the dice with what you have coming to camp. Or, the difference between the FA and draft options and the in house solutions is not worth the asking price.

[fishgutmartyr]

I have this stupid idea in my head that the loser of the fullback competition is going into the TE pool. They're both excellent blockers, and they both can catch passes. I keep thinking if Pascoe could play FB, why not the reverse?

 

I know. It isn't happening.

[Lughead]

Owen Daniels was sitting on his ass for weeks and we just sat on our hands and then he was gone.

 

How we went the whole draft without picking someone up at TE is just strange.

Dude, Owen Daniels is way not the answer

[Herc]

daniels gets hurt too much