Coughlin and JR press conference today

[Bigblue25]

i want a brand new system

I'm kinda torn. I am afraid we'll lose out onsome good young assistants by stayling loyal and keep doing the same thing with the same results. Coughlin has every right to choose, but on the other hand I wouldn't mind some fresh new ideas and bringing in someone like Joe Lombardi

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

i want a brand new system

Me too... a system predicated on everyone knowing what to do when the DB scratches his sack as opposed to him spitting on the turf is a system prone to errors...

[JMFP]

 

oh, the system is fine from an Xs and Os perspective... better than fine.

 

Not sure that a new system would be great for a 30+ yo Eli either.

 

I have no problem with the plays they're running, they just need to run them at the right times. Gilbride has always had a tendency to get playbook tunnel vision; Buddy Ryan didn't take a swing at him for nothing. Last season was a new low for him though; more than a few times it seemed like he wasn't even watching the game.

 

Agreed.....seemed to have zero feel for what ws hsppening

[Tempest]

Personally i think a new offense is in order. We need one that puts defenses on their heel with the speed we can get packages out on to the field and focused on medium to long passes with a solid running game. Right now we can barely get the play in and snapped before we run out of time and then we are having 5 to 7 step drop backs.

 

Yeah I know that sounds exactly like what the Giants have been trying to do since Gilbride took over the offense. I think it can be done without the intricacies/wrinkles we currently have.

 

BTW, The individual sniping around here is uncalled for. Everyone has their own opinion on this team and the direction we should take. I do not agree with most people here and it is hard to find a consensus on what we should be doing.

[Gman329]

So you're saying reduce the intricacies/RISK within the current system, which is what I would hope Mike Sullivan (or whoever) would do. I'm afraid of a painful learning curve for Eli and the receivers if everything they've done for all these years is thrown out and we start at square one.

 

And for the record, opinions are fine and I enjoy discussing but I finally got fed up yesterday with unending barrage of words like "retarded" and "asshole" directed toward Coughlin. I ignored it for as long as I could but as the dead horse that gets put up here suggests, it's relentless! It's all some people have! You don't like TC - I got it.....now move on! But if people insist on piling on with CONSTANT the over the top abuse, I think they are fair game for the same.

 

NOBODY here, absolutely including me, has the football depth of knowledge to be constantly contemptuous and dismissive toward a guy like TC. I understand angry reactions. I've screamed "you fucking moron!" at my TV like everyone else and I even want Gilly gone after becoming rational again.......but not for a second do I believe I know more football than him! That doesn't mean I can't be critical but it does mean I'm smart enough to know he's a professional and I'm not. For me to call him retarded and the like (over and over) only makes me sound like the one who is impaired.

[Nas]

I can him whatever the fuck I want. You haven't ignored it for a while and have likened me to jack numerous times and it was me who ignored the bs for a while. Fuck TC and his hiring ofvretards and 2nd half collapses.,, only this year they bent over early on.

 

No one is claiming we know more than him but tell me how many if us wouldn't have grabbed Gilly by the ear and questioned why the fuck he was calling passing plays when we were running the ball at will against Dallas?

 

Finally I find it quite amusing you give yourself a pass for yelling explisitives at your TV but get offended here... I see you set the bar for all of us. Smfh

[Gman329]

If you try reading more carefully, you'll see that I also regain rationality and sanity after emotional outbursts. You never do get rational or reflective...or God knows, intelligent. I was - honestly - going to try to send you a private message today and see if we could maybe argue a little more perhaps but in the end, work it out and move on.........But now, fuck that. I can call YOU and compare YOU to whoever the fuck I want. Got it, you delusional moron?

[Nas]

If you try reading more carefully, you'll see that I also regain rationality and sanity after emotional outbursts. You never do get rational or reflective...or God knows, intelligent. I was - honestly - going to try to send you a private message today and see if we could maybe argue a little more perhaps but in the end, work it out and move on.........But now, fuck that. I can call YOU and compare YOU to whoever the fuck I want. Got it, you delusional moron?

Oooh you hurt my feelings you tough guy you lol. There's Nothing to work out. You're the offender here.,, so you were debating whether you're gonna send a PM? Awwww how fucking sweet

[JMFP]

Me too... a system predicated on everyone knowing what to do when the DB scratches his sack as opposed to him spitting on the turf is a system prone to errors...

Agreed 100%

 

The offense involves too much guesswork and not enough initiative and instinct.

 

I am tired of watching it....I personally think Eli would be at the top of the league with an offense that us matched to his talents

 

 

Both Super Bowl wins were the result of Eli taking the ball down the field on the final drive to score TDs .....gilbrides system would have been scrapped a long time ago if not for Eli's clutch throws and ability in a hurry up scenario

[Gman329]

Agreed 100%

 

The offense involves too much guesswork and not enough initiative and instinct.

 

I am tired of watching it....I personally think Eli would be at the top of the league with an offense that us matched to his talents

 

What do you think Eli is best suited to? He can feel pressure and move in the pocket to avoid sacks well enough but he's not what you'd call mobile by any means and his accuracy (not always a strong point to begin with) suffers when he tries to throw on the run. So we're talking about a classic pocket passer. For his own sake, I'd like to see shorter drops and the ball get out of his hands sooner, even if we do get the badly needed upgrade to the O line.....at least mix that in. The steady diet of 5 and 7 step drops and long reads simply isn't working and it's going to get him killed - and lead to more turnovers. What would help, too is a running game, again tied to am improved OL.

[boohyah]

Wow, I came in way too late here, missed all the fun.

 

Not sure why Mara would make those comments about Jernigan. I mean, the guy only had 3 training camps, 2 previous seasons where we had mulitple injuries at wide receiver. If Cruz was healthy, then he wouldn't be getting the touches he did, he wasn't good early in the season. Perhaps this has more to do with the fact that he had to play the last few weeks and that perhaps he was forced to improve his play.

 

That said, he was very good the last few weeks and hopefully we can get some good play out of him for the next year. It would be nice to get some production out of the 3rd round for a change.

[Nas]

Wow, I came in way too late here, missed all the fun.

 

Not sure why Mara would make those comments about Jernigan. I mean, the guy only had 3 training camps, 2 previous seasons where we had mulitple injuries at wide receiver. If Cruz was healthy, then he wouldn't be getting the touches he did, he wasn't good early in the season. Perhaps this has more to do with the fact that he had to play the last few weeks and that perhaps he was forced to improve his play.

 

That said, he was very good the last few weeks and hopefully we can get some good play out of him for the next year. It would be nice to get some production out of the 3rd round for a change.

I too am not too sure about JJ being a superstar based on one game but it begs the question of why not get the young guys on the field to see what they got. My guess is Mara may have rethought the negotiation on Cruz's deal if JJ is as good as he was last game... Either this coaching staff has a habit of not playing young guys.

[boohyah]

You can't rethink the long term plans for a position based off of one game. Otherwise, Cruz wouldn't have gotten a contract based off of a Ramses Barden nine catch game against the Panthers.

 

By the way, Cruz was not seeing the field worth a damn until he broke out against the Eagles.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Agreed 100%

 

The offense involves too much guesswork and not enough initiative and instinct.

 

I am tired of watching it....I personally think Eli would be at the top of the league with an offense that us matched to his talents

 

 

Both Super Bowl wins were the result of Eli taking the ball down the field on the final drive to score TDs .....gilbrides system would have been scrapped a long time ago if not for Eli's clutch throws and ability in a hurry up scenario

 

 

 

What do you think Eli is best suited to? He can feel pressure and move in the pocket to avoid sacks well enough but he's not what you'd call mobile by any means and his accuracy (not always a strong point to begin with) suffers when he tries to throw on the run. So we're talking about a classic pocket passer. For his own sake, I'd like to see shorter drops and the ball get out of his hands sooner, even if we do get the badly needed upgrade to the O line.....at least mix that in. The steady diet of 5 and 7 step drops and long reads simply isn't working and it's going to get him killed - and lead to more turnovers. What would help, too is a running game, again tied to am improved OL.

I think at this point in his career since he is relatively a moving statue back there... a modified West Coast offense...with plenty of passes to the backs and TE's with an occasional shot or two per half for the endzone. A lot of medium passes to the slot...maximum 3-4 step drop and out of his hands... Short/Medium passes to guys like Wilson and Cruz who are shifty/nimble in open space would be a Godsend. But this modified run and shoot is passe... I am not even sold on Sullivan as he is a Saint Gilbride disciple...would he be able to change it enough so that the TV audience...much less the opposing team, analysts and stadium crowd knows whats coming as Eli Omahas his way through the snap count.

[Nas]

You can't rethink the long term plans for a position based off of one game. Otherwise, Cruz wouldn't have gotten a contract based off of a Ramses Barden nine catch game against the Panthers.

 

By the way, Cruz was not seeing the field worth a damn until he broke out against the Eagles.

I believe Cruz's breakout was againt the Jets in the preseason.. What I was saying his having JJ's skills displayed early on might have been used as leverage in Cruz's contract negotiations.

[boohyah]

He had the game against the Jets in the preseason, but he got hurt and didn't play for a while and then he went off on the Eagles in the regular season, his playing time went up afterwards and he was on his way.

 

Furthermore, Jernigan's "skills" might have had more to do with Cruz getting a contract than not. Let's face facts here Nas, he's played well the last 3 weeks. In his rookie year he was on kickoffs and they had to take him out. He did nothing worth a damn since then except run some God awful routes since then. It's late in the this season where he finally turned it around. Frankly, if the Giants gave Moss 4 years to do something, giving Jernigan 3 years isn't a big deal. I hope the kid has turned the corner.

 

And back to Cruz, in terms of Cruz's production versus other wide receivers, Cruz actually got a poor deal. His agent was trying to play him against guys like Mike Wallace, and the Giants countered by saying they had leverage for the next 3 years, (which they did, they could have forced him to play out his contract this year, and then franchised him the next 2). Then they could have dumped him. So him taking the contract had little to do with the play of others, more so the Giants gave him a contract which was somewhere in the middle of a slot receiver/wideout threat deal, probably kicked in some reward money for his past performances, since he played at a pro bowl level making rookie money the last few years.

[Storm]

I can him whatever the fuck I want. You haven't ignored it for a while and have likened me to jack numerous times and it was me who ignored the bs for a while. Fuck TC and his hiring ofvretards and 2nd half collapses.,, only this year they bent over early on.

 

No one is claiming we know more than him but tell me how many if us wouldn't have grabbed Gilly by the ear and questioned why the fuck he was calling passing plays when we were running the ball at will against Dallas?

 

Finally I find it quite amusing you give yourself a pass for yelling explisitives at your TV but get offended here... I see you set the bar for all of us. Smfh

 

Actually, I often do think I know more than Kevin Gilbride. Watching the modern NFL, many games every weekend, I know, for certain, that he doesn't utilize his talent efficiently and doesn't play to his team's strengths. I know, for certain, that he has not evolved with the rest of the NFL. You can tell just by watching a Giants game directly after a game with a good team and offense.

[Storm]

 

What do you think Eli is best suited to? He can feel pressure and move in the pocket to avoid sacks well enough but he's not what you'd call mobile by any means and his accuracy (not always a strong point to begin with) suffers when he tries to throw on the run. So we're talking about a classic pocket passer. For his own sake, I'd like to see shorter drops and the ball get out of his hands sooner, even if we do get the badly needed upgrade to the O line.....at least mix that in. The steady diet of 5 and 7 step drops and long reads simply isn't working and it's going to get him killed - and lead to more turnovers. What would help, too is a running game, again tied to am improved OL.

 

His accuracy is actually pretty good on the move, as long as he's rolling to his right.

[Storm]

Speaking of professionals, though....what makes some of you folks think that professional football players (and coaches) couldn't adapt to and thrive in a completely new system? They are professionals and all. Why is it being put out there that Eli being comfortable in Gilbride's system makes Mike Sullivan a good choice for a replacement? Philadelphia adapted to and thrived in a new offense....all with a quarterback that barely saw the field up until several games into the season.

[Gman329]

Speaking of professionals, though....what makes some of you folks think that professional football players (and coaches) couldn't adapt to and thrive in a completely new system? They are professionals and all. Why is it being put out there that Eli being comfortable in Gilbride's system makes Mike Sullivan a good choice for a replacement? Philadelphia adapted to and thrived in a new offense....all with a quarterback that barely saw the field up until several games into the season.

 

True....but I just don't see Eli running the read option, for instance.

[Storm]

 

True....but I just don't see Eli running the read option, for instance.

 

That's true, lol.

[Sephiroth]

Speaking of professionals, though....what makes some of you folks think that professional football players (and coaches) couldn't adapt to and thrive in a completely new system? They are professionals and all. Why is it being put out there that Eli being comfortable in Gilbride's system makes Mike Sullivan a good choice for a replacement? Philadelphia adapted to and thrived in a new offense....all with a quarterback that barely saw the field up until several games into the season.

 

I don't get this either. People act like Eli is so dumb he can't learn a new system, and that NO qb in history has ever been able to pick one up. Uh, news flash... teams change coordinators, and the players adapt.

 

Also, what's the alternative? "Well, Eli has been playing in a system that's not working... but it's an ineffective one that he KNOWS, so let's just stick with what we already know sucks."

[Nas]

 

I don't get this either. People act like Eli is so dumb he can't learn a new system, and that NO qb in history has ever been able to pick one up. Uh, news flash... teams change coordinators, and the players adapt.

 

Also, what's the alternative? "Well, Eli has been playing in a system that's not working... but it's an ineffective one that he KNOWS, so let's just stick with what we already know sucks."

 

To be fair the system worked for a while... it just seems like it's gotten stale and predictable... maybe we don't need a new system so much as we need some new plays here and there and not be so damn predictable.

[gmenroc]

Coughlin has been a hell of a coach. He's been great for our team over his entire career, both as an assistant and a head coach. I have lots of respect for him, especially when he was humble enough to limit his strict demeanor back in the Strahan, Plax days of meeting times and whatnot. He seemed to become a players coach of sorts while maintaining his authority. Of course, the SB win solidified that for a lot of the players...Coughlin's ways became justified and guys bought in to it. He adjusted, players adjusted...and there was a mutual coordination and forming of team. I don't know that it gets much better than that.

 

However, I also agree with many of the ex-players and talking heads that say that coach's messages get stale. I also believe that when a team opens 0-6, despite there being some good opponents in that stretch, and furthermore when that same team struggles in games they shouldn't...coaches have to accept the responsibility of the position. In organizations, shit flows downhill, but responsibility flows uphill. And because of this, I agree wholeheartedly that there needs to be changes in the coaching ranks.

 

Now, you have to question how much change. You have a QB who should be in the prime of his career who's been ingrained in the same system his whole career. You don't want to change 180 degrees from where he's at currently. At the same time, the stale, predictable offense needs innovation, adjustability, creativity, and freshness.

 

I think keeping Coughlin is the right move and eliminating Gilbride is a perfect means of keeping a little consistency while creating enough change. There have been hints to Coughlin's retirement (on his own terms or otherwise). I think ownership has to have a strong indication as to when Coughlin wants to hang it up. Interviewing for a top OC could be aided heavily if we could offer a shot at a head coach position in a few years...so long as we know when Coughlin is thinking about retiring.

 

I don't pretend to know the system of all the assistants league-wide, but I for one, don't want a reincarnation of Gilbride. His offense was far too predictable at times and to succeed, it needed perfect implementation by the players. So when it wasn't predictable, it was too chancy...for lack of a better word. It could hit the home run all day when it worked, but I want an offense that is steady and highly competitive as opposed to inconsistently fully dominant. If Sullivan from TB is our new OC, I guess I'm fine with that...but he better display some creativity early. No, I'm not talking about a run-option with Eli because that'd just be bad, but something that shows us that guys get open as a result of the play, not just a result of their own ability, would be what I was looking for.

[Nas]

Coughlin has been a hell of a coach. He's been great for our team over his entire career, both as an assistant and a head coach. I have lots of respect for him, especially when he was humble enough to limit his strict demeanor back in the Strahan, Plax days of meeting times and whatnot. He seemed to become a players coach of sorts while maintaining his authority. Of course, the SB win solidified that for a lot of the players...Coughlin's ways became justified and guys bought in to it. He adjusted, players adjusted...and there was a mutual coordination and forming of team. I don't know that it gets much better than that.

 

However, I also agree with many of the ex-players and talking heads that say that coach's messages get stale. I also believe that when a team opens 0-6, despite there being some good opponents in that stretch, and furthermore when that same team struggles in games they shouldn't...coaches have to accept the responsibility of the position. In organizations, shit flows downhill, but responsibility flows uphill. And because of this, I agree wholeheartedly that there needs to be changes in the coaching ranks.

 

Now, you have to question how much change. You have a QB who should be in the prime of his career who's been ingrained in the same system his whole career. You don't want to change 180 degrees from where he's at currently. At the same time, the stale, predictable offense needs innovation, adjustability, creativity, and freshness.

 

I think keeping Coughlin is the right move and eliminating Gilbride is a perfect means of keeping a little consistency while creating enough change. There have been hints to Coughlin's retirement (on his own terms or otherwise). I think ownership has to have a strong indication as to when Coughlin wants to hang it up. Interviewing for a top OC could be aided heavily if we could offer a shot at a head coach position in a few years...so long as we know when Coughlin is thinking about retiring.

 

I don't pretend to know the system of all the assistants league-wide, but I for one, don't want a reincarnation of Gilbride. His offense was far too predictable at times and to succeed, it needed perfect implementation by the players. So when it wasn't predictable, it was too chancy...for lack of a better word. It could hit the home run all day when it worked, but I want an offense that is steady and highly competitive as opposed to inconsistently fully dominant. If Sullivan from TB is our new OC, I guess I'm fine with that...but he better display some creativity early. No, I'm not talking about a run-option with Eli because that'd just be bad, but something that shows us that guys get open as a result of the play, not just a result of their own ability, would be what I was looking for.

 

Well said... although I'm not sure of Sullivan being our OC since I read here he may very well run Gilly's system. I'd rather go after a proven OC although maybe the FO keeps Gilly and infuse some young coaching blood in the form of assistants etc.