Trading up for Crabtree

[BobPapa4Prez]

The closer we get to the draft without a legit #1 receiver, the more I think the possibility of trading for a top 5 pick and getting this guy looks more and more attractive. Plax is not going to be back. We need to accept this. If he somehow gets off with probation of a deferred sentence until after the season, you better believe Goodell is going to come down hard on him with a swift suspension. The giants have 9 picks in this draft thanks to shockey. Theres no way 9 rookies are making the team, especially with the new guys on defense. Theres nothing left in free agency, and trading for someone like Boldin is pretty much not an option. I feel like putting together a package of our first round pick, maybe a 3rd, and a somewhat proven player (we can probably afford to part with a d-lineman, possibly Kiwanuka) would be very attractive to one of the teams at the top of the draft. Any thoughts on how likely this would be or if you'd be in favor of it?

[BIGBLUE01]

Well, I wouldnt say 9 draft picks wont make the team, cause 8 did a couple of yrs ago and contributed to our SB victory. Highly unlikely, but not out of the question. But the more time goes on, I am thinking this aint a bad idea. I really wanted to put some picks together and trade for a FA WR. But with our already great pass rush that just got significantly better, and our superior run game, it wouldnt be a bad idea.

[fringe]

did d4p get banned again?

[Bigblue25]

Michael Crabtree=David Boston or David Terrell or Mike Williams i just think he has bust written all over him and is more comparable to those three guys then say a Larry Fitzgerald, i would rather wait and get Britt at 29

[Herc]

i read on foxsports that he's a combination of michael irvin and larry fitzgerald

[Treehugger]

did d4p get banned again?

Is it Plax 4 Prez?

[BronxRik]

did d4p get banned again?

 

No, not that I'm aware of. Of course, I said that last time too.

 

 

[Lubeck]

Michael Crabtree=David Boston or David Terrell or Mike Williams i just think he has bust written all over him and is more comparable to those three guys then say a Larry Fitzgerald, i would rather wait and get Britt at 29

 

:worshippy:

[Allstarjim]

If you are new here, BP4P, then welcome. I would have to say though, that the trade offer you proposed (our first, third, and Kiwanuka) would easily net us Braylon or Boldin, so there would be no reason to trade up to the top 5 with young, proven receivers out there.

 

I would say when you are talking about receivers, there is no reason to give up so much to jump so far up into the draft. There are several receivers out there that are very good talents. In this draft in particular, you may see that the best receivers may come in the bottom half of the first and in the 2nd rounds. Guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, and Louis Murphy I would keep my eyes on. Also Darius Heyward-Bey, who could go somewhere in that middle portion of the draft.

 

Either way, there is no reason to give up so much to get into the top 5, as in this draft, the Giants can jump just a couple of spots and guarantee themselves they are going to get a WR near the top of their draft board at that position.

 

What they are going to do is see how it plays out on draft day. If there is a run on receivers in the middle of the first, then they may trade up. If things don't work out, watch them take the best LB available (or maybe even a OT, which would be a bit of a surprise), and then grab Louis Murphy in the 2nd, who is 6'3" and runs a 4.3 40". This guy I think is going to be a better pro receiver than Harvin.

[Tempest]

If you can look at Crabtree and say he's in the same league as Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson, then hell lets put a package together to move up. Nobody is saying that, they're just saying Crabtree is the best receiver in the draft and that belief is fine at the college level but not a guarantee at the NFL level.

 

Giants are better off staying put and drafting Nicks in the first or Britt in the second.

[NeMesiS]

If you can look at Crabtree and say he's in the same league as Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson, then hell lets put a package together to move up. Nobody is saying that, they're just saying Crabtree is the best receiver in the draft and that belief is fine at the college level but not a guarantee at the NFL level.

 

Giants are better off staying put and drafting Hicks in the first or Britt in the second.

I'm stating to think britt won't be there in the 2nd. We may have to use our 1st.

[Allstarjim]

I'm stating to think britt won't be there in the 2nd. We may have to use our 1st.

 

 

He might not even be there at 29. There is a decent chance that Philly could take him 1 spot ahead of us, and Indianapolis could go with him 2 spots ahead of us. You have Miami, Baltimore, Indianapolis, and Philly all going ahead of us, and you can make a case for all of them going receiver in the first. If he is there at 29, though, we should take him, because I'd bet my bippy he won't be there at 45.

[Bigblue25]

He might not even be there at 29. There is a decent chance that Philly could take him 1 spot ahead of us, and Indianapolis could go with him 2 spots ahead of us. You have Miami, Baltimore, Indianapolis, and Philly all going ahead of us, and you can make a case for all of them going receiver in the first. If he is there at 29, though, we should take him, because I'd bet my bippy he won't be there at 45.

I don't think he will be there at 45, also at the begining of the second Detroit,Cleveland,Oakland,Jacksonville,San Francisco could all be thinking wideout if they don't take one with their first.

[Tempest]

Maybe I just don't see what you guys see in Britt. I just don't think he's a first round talent. Receivers dropped out of the first round last year and I see that trend continuing this year.

 

Out of all the teams you mentioned, Baltimore is the only one that I can see drafting a WR. Philly needs an OT, Indy needs defense, and so does Miami. If Nicks is there for us at 29, I'd take him over Britt.

 

He might not even be there at 29. There is a decent chance that Philly could take him 1 spot ahead of us, and Indianapolis could go with him 2 spots ahead of us. You have Miami, Baltimore, Indianapolis, and Philly all going ahead of us, and you can make a case for all of them going receiver in the first. If he is there at 29, though, we should take him, because I'd bet my bippy he won't be there at 45.

[Allstarjim]

You are correct sir. Jax is almost certainly going to take a WR with one of their first two picks. And SF more than likely as well. I would hope Detroit has learned their lesson by now. But they have a lot of picks, so you never know.

[so-cal dub]

Michael Crabtree=David Boston or David Terrell or Mike Williams i just think he has bust written all over him and is more comparable to those three guys then say a Larry Fitzgerald, i would rather wait and get Britt at 29

I totally agree with you.

[Nas]

If you are new here, BP4P, then welcome. I would have to say though, that the trade offer you proposed (our first, third, and Kiwanuka) would easily net us Braylon or Boldin, so there would be no reason to trade up to the top 5 with young, proven receivers out there.

 

I would say when you are talking about receivers, there is no reason to give up so much to jump so far up into the draft. There are several receivers out there that are very good talents. In this draft in particular, you may see that the best receivers may come in the bottom half of the first and in the 2nd rounds. Guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, and Louis Murphy I would keep my eyes on. Also Darius Heyward-Bey, who could go somewhere in that middle portion of the draft.

 

Either way, there is no reason to give up so much to get into the top 5, as in this draft, the Giants can jump just a couple of spots and guarantee themselves they are going to get a WR near the top of their draft board at that position.

 

What they are going to do is see how it plays out on draft day. If there is a run on receivers in the middle of the first, then they may trade up. If things don't work out, watch them take the best LB available (or maybe even a OT, which would be a bit of a surprise), and then grab Louis Murphy in the 2nd, who is 6'3" and runs a 4.3 40". This guy I think is going to be a better pro receiver than Harvin.

 

God damn, Jim. I knew you were an analytical pro but damn.. this is on a different level. Who do you see us taking in the draft?

[Allstarjim]

God damn, Jim. I knew you were an analytical pro but damn.. this is on a different level. Who do you see us taking in the draft?

 

Thanks man. So many things can happen between now and pick 29, Nas. It's hard to say. I think the Giants know they have to replace Plaxico, even if Plaxico avoids jail time. Reason being is that although you hope that this was his last wake up call and that he realizes he's hit bottom, you can't just put all your eggs in that basket after he's burned you repeatedly. So I think that they are really going to focus on getting a number 1 receiver, a big body receiver at that because they already have a lot of quick little guys. They have to be looking at Kenny Britt and Hakeem Nicks in that first round. They will also want a linebacker to compete with Clark at the SAM, but there is no value there for that position near where the Giants are picking. I could see them targeting Clint Sintim in the second.

 

After those two positions, they will focus on depth, specifically at S and the offensive line, and my dark horse pick that I like is Chase Coffman in the 3rd maybe 4th round.

 

All that changes if they trade for someone like Braylon or Boldin on draft day, although even if they trade for Braylon, I could still see them going receiver in the first, particularly if Steve Smith is moved in that deal. Getting Braylon and then drafting Hakeem Nicks at 29 would be a coup.

[JMFP]

The closer we get to the draft without a legit #1 receiver, the more I think the possibility of trading for a top 5 pick and getting this guy looks more and more attractive. Plax is not going to be back. We need to accept this. If he somehow gets off with probation of a deferred sentence until after the season, you better believe Goodell is going to come down hard on him with a swift suspension. The giants have 9 picks in this draft thanks to shockey. Theres no way 9 rookies are making the team, especially with the new guys on defense. Theres nothing left in free agency, and trading for someone like Boldin is pretty much not an option. I feel like putting together a package of our first round pick, maybe a 3rd, and a somewhat proven player (we can probably afford to part with a d-lineman, possibly Kiwanuka) would be very attractive to one of the teams at the top of the draft. Any thoughts on how likely this would be or if you'd be in favor of it?

 

It must be our Presidential wisdom....I made a similar comment a few weeks back. I also think that Crabtree could drop to the middle of the round, in which case the Giants have enough ammo to deal up without giving away the store.

 

Crabtree's hairline fracture could scare some people away....granted it's probably nothing, but still something that any GM worth his salt has to consider. The high round picks are murder on GM's. The hit/miss rate on WR's is a lot worse than offensive lineman, so I wouldn't be surprised if some teams blink when he's on the board.

 

Crabtee could be another Randy Moss....but the averages say he won't be, and high-round busts put GM's on the hot seat.

[Allstarjim]

It must be our Presidential wisdom....I made a similar comment a few weeks back. I also think that Crabtree could drop to the middle of the round, in which case the Giants have enough ammo to deal up without giving away the store.

 

Crabtree's hairline fracture could scare some people away....granted it's probably nothing, but still something that any GM worth his salt has to consider. The high round picks are murder on GM's. The hit/miss rate on WR's is a lot worse than offensive lineman, so I wouldn't be surprised if some teams blink when he's on the board.

 

Crabtee could be another Randy Moss....but the averages say he won't be, and high-round busts put GM's on the hot seat.

 

 

If Crabtree isn't taken in the top ten than I'll have what the top 10 NFL teams' GM's are smoking. Joe, you don't realistically think he'll fall that far, do you? Come on, even if he's there at pick #7 which is questionable there's no way Al Davis is going to pass on him. The guy had 19 touchdowns last year. I say again, 19! He had 6 multiple touchdown games last season. And he had 22 touchdowns in '07!!! I really think there is no chance he's going to fall to the middle of the first.

[ppodlesny]

If Crabtree isn't taken in the top ten than I'll have what the top 10 NFL teams' GM's are smoking. Joe, you don't realistically think he'll fall that far, do you? Come on, even if he's there at pick #7 which is questionable there's no way Al Davis is going to pass on him. The guy had 19 touchdowns last year. I say again, 19! He had 6 multiple touchdown games last season. And he had 22 touchdowns in '07!!! I really think there is no chance he's going to fall to the middle of the first.

the more I start reading about the Giants and what everybody thinks they are going to do, receiver in round#1, I am starting to believe it...although I am hoping they LB....with that said if Crabtree falls out of the top 10, which I doubt...I think the Giants might pull the trigger.

[JMFP]

If Crabtree isn't taken in the top ten than I'll have what the top 10 NFL teams' GM's are smoking. Joe, you don't realistically think he'll fall that far, do you? Come on, even if he's there at pick #7 which is questionable there's no way Al Davis is going to pass on him. The guy had 19 touchdowns last year. I say again, 19! He had 6 multiple touchdown games last season. And he had 22 touchdowns in '07!!! I really think there is no chance he's going to fall to the middle of the first.

 

No doubt, the kid was a playmaking machine in college. But picking in the top ten is like buying a mansion - sure the house looks fantastic, until you see the next house. He'll be getting weighed alongside stud lineman, QBs, backers, corners, etc.

 

6-1, 4.50+ speed, and a stress fracture in his foot. Mid-1st round would only be mildly surprising.

[Allstarjim]

No doubt, the kid was a playmaking machine in college. But picking in the top ten is like buying a mansion - sure the house looks fantastic, until you see the next house. He'll be getting weighed alongside stud lineman, QBs, backers, corners, etc.

 

6-1, 4.50+ speed, and a stress fracture in his foot. Mid-1st round would only be mildly surprising.

 

 

Has he really run a 40? I must have missed that.

[BobPapa4Prez]

If you are new here, BP4P, then welcome. I would have to say though, that the trade offer you proposed (our first, third, and Kiwanuka) would easily net us Braylon or Boldin, so there would be no reason to trade up to the top 5 with young, proven receivers out there.

 

I would say when you are talking about receivers, there is no reason to give up so much to jump so far up into the draft. There are several receivers out there that are very good talents. In this draft in particular, you may see that the best receivers may come in the bottom half of the first and in the 2nd rounds. Guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, and Louis Murphy I would keep my eyes on. Also Darius Heyward-Bey, who could go somewhere in that middle portion of the draft.

 

Either way, there is no reason to give up so much to get into the top 5, as in this draft, the Giants can jump just a couple of spots and guarantee themselves they are going to get a WR near the top of their draft board at that position.

 

What they are going to do is see how it plays out on draft day. If there is a run on receivers in the middle of the first, then they may trade up. If things don't work out, watch them take the best LB available (or maybe even a OT, which would be a bit of a surprise), and then grab Louis Murphy in the 2nd, who is 6'3" and runs a 4.3 40". This guy I think is going to be a better pro receiver than Harvin.

 

I don't think that trade would net us Boldin, especially with how adamant Warner has been about the Cardinals keeping him and extending his contract. You may be right about Braylon, in which case I agree that trading for a proven player like that would be preferable, even though he's had some problems with drops.

 

If it turns out they cant end up trading for a veteran, which in general is much harder to do in the NFL than trading picks, I look at moving up for crabtree as being almost necessary. This is not to say that the giants arent a contender next year as they are, but their biggest need is clearly at WR. The giants have stockpiled a lot of receivers the last few years with varying success, but I think we saw this season that even the ones who have had success, hixon and smith, are complementary players and will never be #1 receivers. I don't think the guys the giants would target in the late first or second round are much of an improvement, with the possible exception of Hakim Nicks, who looked really impressive the few times I saw him play at unc. Kenny britt is a nice player, but I dont see him ever being a top 10 receiver in the league. Crabtree absolutely dominated the best conference in college football last year, and single handedly made graham harrell a heisman candidate. If you watched him play at all in college, especially in that game against texas, i dont think you can honestly say he's being overrated.

 

The giants have had a great offseason so far, they've added a lot to the defense which was already strong (although I think they could use a safety), and locked up jacobs. But the bottom line is that we know what the giants look like without a big time target for eli to rely on and its not pretty. They need to make it their top priority to bring someone in who is a "gamebreaker" (as much as I hate when the mel kipers of the world use phrases like that), and i honestly think crabtreeis the man for the job. i dont agree with the david boston/david terrell/mike williams comparison, crabtree has accomplished way more than any of those guys did in his college career. i just think its a perfect fit and the giants should do what they have to, even overpay, if it means getting this kid

[Allstarjim]

Interesting take, BP4P. One thing about the Big 12, though, while they had arguably the best conference, not much defense was played there. Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Texas to a lesser degree didn't beat teams because of defense, they outscored them.