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Post MNF Game Group Therapy Session


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#1 Vendetta

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 11:37 AM

This offensive line is horrendous. They haven't been able to put together an offensive line for the better part of the past five years.

Solder is a disaster. Halapio is awful, and why we rely on these undrafted guys off the street like this (e.g. Chad Wheeler) to man critical roles at times is mind boggling. Remmers is a backup at best. Hernandez can't play well without a good supporting line around him.

Check out this as an illustration of incompetence; here are the starters at RT the past several years; Marshall Newhouse, Bobby Hart, Ereck Flowers, Chad Wheeler, Mike Remmers. That goes back to 2014. Meanwhile, that same year is when we last had an okay LT in Will Beatty and haven't had a better LT since. Dumb signings that ate up cap space like Pulley ($3mm per year for a backup?) and Omanah's dead cap.

Check out Dallas, who has properly invested in a o line, and how they absolutely plowed over the Giants last night (and I'm surprised they didn't try to run the ball more) plus gave Dack all the time in the world.

Oh, plus the entire defense is terrible, and Baker should not be starting at this point.

The play calling is so generic. Not having Shepherd is huge, but the misuse of Saquan, even with a rookie qb, is baffling. A mobile qb + one of the most dynamic rbs in the league should not result in 5 yard curl routes to Evan Engram.

#2 Gorilla

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:42 PM

Well don't  forget all the positives that came out of the game last night....

 

 

 

oh...   fuck



#3 CrazedDogs

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 01:03 PM

positives, at least we have Deone Buchanon now as money backer. He already knows the system and because he's a hybrid LB/S he'll be good sideline to sideline.

 

That was me two weeks ago. Last night I saw Buchanon repeatedly get redirected on where to line up, and when in pursuit of Prescott on a scramble, Buchanon looked like he was running in mud trying to keep up. Prescott is mobile, but he's not exactly Lamar Jackson. 



#4 CrazedDogs

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 01:24 PM

And I swear when I start talking someone up, its the fucking kiss of death. I gave Slayton a little too much credit, and he repaid my faith with one of the bigger clusterfucks of a performance ever. The way he failed to locate that ball (or even turn to look for the ball until it was much too late) was damning, I'll never have any belief in him as a player again. 

 

Deandre Baker had been picking up his game I thought, and then last night he was doing his own thing in the worst possible way. Damn it. You know what, maybe he's stupid. He'll be more effective if the 'scheme' with him is, 'don't even try to think, just go man up, dummy'. 

 

I'm just going to trash everybody on the Giants from now on. 



#5 Sephiroth

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 01:59 PM

The Giants were bad last season.  Total bottom-feeders.  This was the season where we were at least supposed to make a jump to "best of the bottom feeders," or possibly the middle of the pack. 

 

So far they haven't done that.  If we beat the four bottom-feeders left on our schedule (Dolphins, Jets, Skins, Bengals) or at least split with them, I think Shurmur stays around.  If we lose all four I think there's a possibility he's gone. 



#6 Vendetta

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:06 PM

And I swear when I start talking someone up, its the fucking kiss of death. I gave Slayton a little too much credit, and he repaid my faith with one of the bigger clusterfucks of a performance ever. The way he failed to locate that ball (or even turn to look for the ball until it was much too late) was damning, I'll never have any belief in him as a player again. 

 

Deandre Baker had been picking up his game I thought, and then last night he was doing his own thing in the worst possible way. Damn it. You know what, maybe he's stupid. He'll be more effective if the 'scheme' with him is, 'don't even try to think, just go man up, dummy'. 

 

I'm just going to trash everybody on the Giants from now on. 

 

I feel the exact same way. These were all my sentiments (Buchanon, Slayton, Baker) a week or two ago, only to have them dashed once again.

 

Not to mention the sentiment "Sterling will be back on the field soon...this is just a temporary injury, going through the protocols" now to have that fucking change to being career threatening.

 

I need to set my expectations lower.



#7 Vendetta

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:25 PM

There's a lot of blame to go around. Truth is they're just not a very good team, with holes all over the roster (blame that on the front office), but are have a sub-par coach who is a career loser. He's headed for his fourth straight double digit loss season. Do you know of any other coach who has had four straight double digit losing seasons that has made it in this league?



#8 Sephiroth

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:48 PM

There's a lot of blame to go around. Truth is they're just not a very good team, with holes all over the roster (blame that on the front office), but are have a sub-par coach who is a career loser. He's headed for his fourth straight double digit loss season. Do you know of any other coach who has had four straight double digit losing seasons that has made it in this league?

 

I mean... I do know ONE coach who lost four of his last five seasons with the Browns and turned out to be pretty good. 



#9 BlueInCanada

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:49 PM

Oline isn't as good as we have hoped. They can't handle physical teams. The Cowboys didn't even do anything special they just outright whipped the Oline with just a basic man front. Bennett looked like Aaron Darnold out there for fucks sake.

We need a starting WR at this point we can't expect Jones to get better if he's throwing to guys like Fowler,Larimore. Slayton was non existent and Engram be it scheme or play calling has been a non factor.

Jones is going to make mistakes but so far he's shown a bad habit for fumbling and just idiotic throws into coverage. He can throw dimes and can move but he needs to get the bad figured out otherwise this team isn't going far.

The defense is lacking any sort of impact LB or pass rusher we don't have anyone that others teams have to worry about or account for. Secondary is still a project at this point.

Coaching is obviously a big issue as well. Game plan is lacking and doesn't seem to work to any of this teams strengths.

I don't know i didn't think this was going to be more than a 7 or 8 win year but I expected some improvement.

So far it looks like we've taken a step back in almost every aspect compared to last year.

#10 Vendetta

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:50 PM

 

I mean... I do know ONE coach who lost four of his last five seasons with the Browns and turned out to be pretty good. 

 

He lost 4 out of 5 total, but didn't have four straight double digit losing seasons.



#11 BlueInCanada

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 05:49 PM

This will make people feel better.

Since 2017 the Giants are the most losing team in the NFL with 31 losses.

#12 Nas

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 08:26 PM

This will make people feel better.

Since 2017 the Giants are the most losing team in the NFL with 31 losses.

 

Which is why the FO was blown up... they brought in Getty so let's give the guy some time to fix this mess....



#13 Vendetta

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 08:52 PM

 

Which is why the FO was blown up... they brought in Getty so let's give the guy some time to fix this mess....

 

Let's examine his record, highlighting the dumbass moves he's made:

 

OL:

Omameh...bust.

Flowers at RT...bust.

Solder...bust.

Hernandez...remains to be seen, but appears average at best so far. Needs good players around him.

Halapio...bust.

Zeitler...fine.

Remmers...bust.

Chad Wheeler as a starter at RT....bust.

 

Signing a backup in Spencer Pulley to a 3 year $10mm contract...why? Bust

 

DB:

 

Curtis Riley...bust.

Bethea...bust.

Peppers...average (granted, not signing Collins for $15mm per year was the right move)

Baker as an immediate starter, rather than bringing in a vet...sucks. Might be good long term, too early to tell, but as of now, sucks.

Love, Ballentine... can barely get defensive snaps. Too early to tell, but presumably worse than Baker and Haley if they're not on the field.

Beal...drafted him even though he had an injury history. Guy can't even get onto the practice field for more than two minutes. Bust in the making.

 

DL:

 

BJ Hill and Lawrence seem decent. I'll give him credit there.

Leonard Williams...giving up a 3rd and a 4th/5th just to have him audition for 8 games is throwing away two good picks. Dumbass move.

 

OLB:

 

Kareem Martin...3 years $14mm...16 games last year, 1.5 sacks...bust.

Lorenzo Carter...thus far, is a backup or situational pass rusher at best. 2.5 sacks in 9 games this year...meh.

Markus Golden...situational pass rusher/average starter at best....okay.

Ximines... TBD. Thus far, situational pass rusher.

Connor Barwin...bust

 

ILB: 

 

Ogeltree...$10mm per year, and their 2nd highest paid defensive player? Way overpaid. Average starter at best.

Davis...backup at best. 

Meyo...backup 

Ryan Connelly. Looked decent in limited action.

 

 

RB:

 

Johnathan Stewart...bust.

 

QB:

 

Leaving Eli on the roster with a $24mm cap charge with Daniel Jones in a rebuilding year....dumbass move.



#14 GuyMeatdrapes

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 09:03 PM

Jones looks like a rookie. Hopefully he can get better....but hw has some awfully bad habits...eli never had some of the bad habits jones has. Its unfair to compare them, but jones has not been good. Plain and simple. We, as giants fans, want him to be good and look at his play with rosey glasses, but really, jones has stunk.

Very early and has no talent around him, but i think he has a lot to learn of he is going to be a competent starting nfl quarterback.

#15 Iceman

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 05:59 AM

Giants should pursue Whitehead once he clears waivers. He the only guy who can atleast speak his mind about the shit festival going on in the Meadowlands



#16 Sephiroth

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 12:02 PM

Giants should pursue Whitehead once he clears waivers. He the only guy who can atleast speak his mind about the shit festival going on in the Meadowlands


Zero percent chance of this happening.

#17 Herc

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 06:49 PM

Maybe as the team social media manager

#18 Iceman

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:25 AM

Maybe as the team social media manager

 

This is what I meant :)



#19 Tempest

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:04 AM

:yawn:

 

Some of you picked the Giants to lose most of this season, why are you disappointed?  They're living up to your expectations.

 

:whistling:



#20 Iceman

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:13 AM

:yawn:

 

Some of you picked the Giants to lose most of this season, why are you disappointed?  They're living up to your expectations.

 

:whistling:

 

Yes, but we also picked them to win the winnable games. More than losing, its the WAY they are losing thats frustrating. Keep things tight in the first half, completely unravel and shit the bed in the second. This is the only consistent thing this team has been doing



#21 BlueInCanada

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:26 PM

:yawn:
 
Some of you picked the Giants to lose most of this season, why are you disappointed?  They're living up to your expectations.
 
:whistling:


I thought they would at least finish with a win or two more than last year.

Instead it's just been regression across the board with the team.

But a new rookie QB and the majority of the secondary being rookies it's kinda if a tall order to win more than 5 or 6 games.

Not to mention the lack of talent at most other positions.

#22 Sephiroth

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:12 PM

 

Let's examine his record, highlighting the dumbass moves he's made:

 

OL:

Omameh...bust.

Flowers at RT...bust.

Solder...bust.

Hernandez...remains to be seen, but appears average at best so far. Needs good players around him.

Halapio...bust.

Zeitler...fine.

Remmers...bust.

Chad Wheeler as a starter at RT....bust.

 

Signing a backup in Spencer Pulley to a 3 year $10mm contract...why? Bust

 

DB:

 

Curtis Riley...bust.

Bethea...bust.

Peppers...average (granted, not signing Collins for $15mm per year was the right move)

Baker as an immediate starter, rather than bringing in a vet...sucks. Might be good long term, too early to tell, but as of now, sucks.

Love, Ballentine... can barely get defensive snaps. Too early to tell, but presumably worse than Baker and Haley if they're not on the field.

Beal...drafted him even though he had an injury history. Guy can't even get onto the practice field for more than two minutes. Bust in the making.

 

DL:

 

BJ Hill and Lawrence seem decent. I'll give him credit there.

Leonard Williams...giving up a 3rd and a 4th/5th just to have him audition for 8 games is throwing away two good picks. Dumbass move.

 

OLB:

 

Kareem Martin...3 years $14mm...16 games last year, 1.5 sacks...bust.

Lorenzo Carter...thus far, is a backup or situational pass rusher at best. 2.5 sacks in 9 games this year...meh.

Markus Golden...situational pass rusher/average starter at best....okay.

Ximines... TBD. Thus far, situational pass rusher.

Connor Barwin...bust

 

ILB: 

 

Ogeltree...$10mm per year, and their 2nd highest paid defensive player? Way overpaid. Average starter at best.

Davis...backup at best. 

Meyo...backup 

Ryan Connelly. Looked decent in limited action.

 

 

RB:

 

Johnathan Stewart...bust.

 

QB:

 

Leaving Eli on the roster with a $24mm cap charge with Daniel Jones in a rebuilding year....dumbass move.

 

While I generally agree, some of these comparisons aren't fair.  It's not like he drafted Flowers or Chad Wheeler, or signed Halapio. Those guys were here before Getty got here and he already had a ton of housecleaning to do. 



#23 Tempest

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 03:56 AM

 

Yes, but we also picked them to win the winnable games. More than losing, its the WAY they are losing thats frustrating. Keep things tight in the first half, completely unravel and shit the bed in the second. This is the only consistent thing this team has been doing

 

 

I thought they would at least finish with a win or two more than last year.

Instead it's just been regression across the board with the team.

But a new rookie QB and the majority of the secondary being rookies it's kinda if a tall order to win more than 5 or 6 games.

Not to mention the lack of talent at most other positions.

 

I haven't seen a first half of football the Giants played tight in some time.  This year the offense has started with a seven point deficit by default you would think.

This team has been entirely remade and there is a lot of youthful talent making the mistakes that you would expect.  There will be regression for a time that is necessary for players to develop.

 

Problem isn't talent, it is execution.  Last season we saw a few players benched not from lack of talent but effort.  We are watching players now with a degree of talent and playing with effort but making mistakes.

 

I don't know what it is going to take for this team to turn the page on losing, have to believe there is going to be a stand at some point this season on both sides of the ball that turns into another win this season.  Then recognize that is the level they need to pass to get another one.



#24 BlueInCanada

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 04:02 AM

 

 

 

I haven't seen a first half of football the Giants played tight in some time.  This year the offense has started with a seven point deficit by default you would think.

This team has been entirely remade and there is a lot of youthful talent making the mistakes that you would expect.  There will be regression for a time that is necessary for players to develop.

 

Problem isn't talent, it is execution.  Last season we saw a few players benched not from lack of talent but effort.  We are watching players now with a degree of talent and playing with effort but making mistakes.

 

I don't know what it is going to take for this team to turn the page on losing, have to believe there is going to be a stand at some point this season on both sides of the ball that turns into another win this season.  Then recognize that is the level they need to pass to get another one.

 

Read an article that Shurmur has gone around to a number of players and told them to shape up or expect to be benched for the rest of the season type of thing.

 

Wonder who he talked too and I hope he follows through, can't be a winning team if players are complacent with losing.



#25 GuyMeatdrapes

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 07:38 AM

How about Barkley? He is having a bad year too. Doesnt even look like the same player he was last year. Maybe that ankle injury is still troubling him. But he has stunk most games too




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