So I'm going to ask once again... what the fuck are we doing?

[Sephiroth]

Daniel Jones is our starter again, about three days after a report about weakness and numbness in the left side of his body due to his injury.  His backup is the guy that we didn't want to throw a pass last week, at the one position where you're regularly asked to throw passes. 

Graham Gano has missed over a third of his kicks this season.  He missed two-thirds last week and it directly lead to the loss.  Reports have said it's due to a knee injury that will require surgery. 

Despite this, we haven't signed a veteran QB this week, nor have we pursued a kicker or put Gano on IR.  I know it's slim pickins' at this point for players, but surely there's a QB available that we're confident having throw a pass, and a kicker available that can hit over 60% of his field goals. 

I'm not sure what the fuck this front office and coaching staff is doing.  Are we actively trying to tank, or is this gross incompetence? I've moved from "hey this is kind of weird" to "I'm really concerned about the state of the front office." 

[mastershake]

4 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Daniel Jones is our starter again, about three days after a report about weakness and numbness in the left side of his body due to his injury.  His backup is the guy that we didn't want to throw a pass last week, at the one position where you're regularly asked to throw passes. 

Graham Gano has missed over a third of his kicks this season.  He missed two-thirds last week and it directly lead to the loss.  Reports have said it's due to a knee injury that will require surgery. 

Despite this, we haven't signed a veteran QB this week, nor have we pursued a kicker or put Gano on IR.  I know it's slim pickins' at this point for players, but surely there's a QB available that we're confident having throw a pass, and a kicker available that can hit over 60% of his field goals. 

I'm not sure what the fuck this front office and coaching staff is doing.  Are we actively trying to tank, or is this gross incompetence? I've moved from "hey this is kind of weird" to "I'm really concerned about the state of the front office." 

They signed Matt Barkley to the practice squad.

They're going to have to bring him to the active roster to make him an emergency QB, then maybe look to next week for him to play (assuming DJ is injured thanks to this putrid OL and his injury proneness).

The sad truth is: what kind of a QB (e.g. Wentz, Driskel) really wants to play here considering the Giants abysmal OL? They'll just spend 8-9 games running for their life getting killed.

Why we haven't signed or done something about the kicker position is a mystery.

Going into the season without a competent OL is unraveling. The season is unraveling.

[GorillaNJ]

14 minutes ago, mastershake said:

They signed Matt Barkley to the practice squad.

They're going to have to bring him to the active roster to make him an emergency QB, then maybe look to next week for him to play (assuming DJ is injured thanks to this putrid OL and his injury proneness).

The sad truth is: what kind of a QB (e.g. Wentz, Driskel) really wants to play here considering the Giants abysmal OL? They'll just spend 8-9 games running for their life getting killed.

Why we haven't signed or done something about the kicker position is a mystery.

Going into the season without a competent OL is unraveling. The season is unraveling.

Not sure what Matt Barkley gives us this week, have to hope that neither he nor DeVito have to play.   

If Gano is hurt, I can't believe they have not pulled some kid in to kick.     

[BlueInCanada]

I think this year was a wash and what the Giants FO has done tells me even they knew that this type of season was likely.

We won't see anything crazy till year end, when contracts are off the books. 

[Sephiroth]

Honestly I feel a lot better about Barkley being here.  Like... he can throw a pass. That's the bar for this team now. 

I had searched "Giants signing" news but nothing came up in the Google. 

Any chance we get a kicker next, or is the plan just to Coughlin the one we have until his career is ruined? 

[Mr. P]

17 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I think this year was a wash and what the Giants FO has done tells me even they knew that this type of season was likely.

We won't see anything crazy till year end, when contracts are off the books. 

 

You’re putting too much faith in the front office. 
 

we won a playoff game last year, they didn’t think this season would be a throwaway. 

[BlueInCanada]

11 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

 

You’re putting too much faith in the front office. 
 

we won a playoff game last year, they didn’t think this season would be a throwaway. 

We won a playoff game after a very weak schedule while doing absolutely nothing to upgrade the team between the season besides the draft and Okerekay.

Maybe they didn't think we would be the worst team in the NFL like we are, but I doubt playoffs or bust was the idea either. 

Also what can a team do that starts like the Giants? 

We have no cap space, we can't afford to trade away draft capitol.

It's basically ride with the crew we have till the end of season and see what happens honestly. 

[mastershake]

3 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

We won a playoff game after a very weak schedule while doing absolutely nothing to upgrade the team between the season besides the draft and Okerekay.

Maybe they didn't think we would be the worst team in the NFL like we are, but I doubt playoffs or bust was the idea either. 

Also what can a team do that starts like the Giants? 

We have no cap space, we can't afford to trade away draft capitol.

It's basically ride with the crew we have till the end of season and see what happens honestly. 

We were 3-6-1 down the stretch last year. We stumbled into the playoffs, then DJ had the game of his life against Minnesota and scammed the Giants into a contract.

I said from the outset at best this is an 8-9 win team, but more likely 6-7 which wouldn't surprise me. At this point the way it's unraveling we'll be lucky if we get 5.

The Front Office might have thought this team would be better, but anyone looking at this objectively could have seen the abysmal OL coming. Same shit different year. Same wishful thinking about the OL without seriously addressing it.

[Herc]

Even if they think we overachieved by a couple of wins I can’t imagine they expected this much regression 

[mastershake]

1 hour ago, Herc said:

Even if they think we overachieved by a couple of wins I can’t imagine they expected this much regression 

I'm saying they didn't, but any objective outside observer could have seen this coming.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Daniel Jones is our starter again, about three days after a report about weakness and numbness in the left side of his body due to his injury.  His backup is the guy that we didn't want to throw a pass last week, at the one position where you're regularly asked to throw passes. 

Graham Gano has missed over a third of his kicks this season.  He missed two-thirds last week and it directly lead to the loss.  Reports have said it's due to a knee injury that will require surgery. 

Despite this, we haven't signed a veteran QB this week, nor have we pursued a kicker or put Gano on IR.  I know it's slim pickins' at this point for players, but surely there's a QB available that we're confident having throw a pass, and a kicker available that can hit over 60% of his field goals. 

I'm not sure what the fuck this front office and coaching staff is doing.  Are we actively trying to tank, or is this gross incompetence? I've moved from "hey this is kind of weird" to "I'm really concerned about the state of the front office." 

I feel you man.  I think they are trying to save every dime available and are tanking for next year.  Daboll IMHO does not see DJ as his QB, and I think Gano is being ridden till he drops.  As you write... I think they will look for a 60%-70% kicker in training camp.  I think Gano's days are numbered with the Giants. DJ's if his days are not numbered for 2024.... they definitely should be by 2025.  DJ is not the future.  Too bad the Giant's front office cannot come out and say this.  The QB situation is just as bad when George Young (and practically no one else) fell in love with Dave Brown.  We see how that ended up.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

3 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

I think this year was a wash and what the Giants FO has done tells me even they knew that this type of season was likely.

We won't see anything crazy till year end, when contracts are off the books. 

This... the Giants will mostly ride and die (die mostly) with what they have.  It is similar to military campaigns.  You don't reinforce debacles and/or losing situations.  You take your lumps, extract as much of your boys that you want as you can; boot up for the next campaign.  Lose, learn and move on.

[Herc]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

I'm saying they didn't, but any objective outside observer could have seen this coming.

Their o/u was 7.5 and they’re on pace for 4.  It’s hard to even make up some of the milestones and depths we’ve seen this season 

[mastershake]

Just now, Herc said:

Their o/u was 7.5 and they’re on pace for 4.  It’s hard to even make up some of the milestones and depths we’ve seen this season 

Yeah that's the Vegas Odds, but I think this Front Office/Organization legit thought we were a playoff team going into the season. They probably thought they beefed up the offense with Waller, Campbell, Hyatt, plus bringing back Barkley. They thought the OL would take a leap (e.g. Neal, Ezeudu, Bredeson), and JMS would come in and be a reliable starter right away...which is why they made no tangible OL moves in free agency, other than a backup Center...the same wishful thinking of the last 9 years. They disregarded the injury prone risk of Jones (and Taylor).

The defense I can't really get on. They put it together as the season has gone on, despite rookies in the secondary, despite gaps at DE, etc. It's the offense and the OL particularly that's the problem.

[gmenroc]

17 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Yeah that's the Vegas Odds, but I think this Front Office/Organization legit thought we were a playoff team going into the season. They probably thought they beefed up the offense with Waller, Campbell, Hyatt, plus bringing back Barkley. They thought the OL would take a leap (e.g. Neal, Ezeudu, Bredeson), and JMS would come in and be a reliable starter right away...which is why they made no tangible OL moves in free agency, other than a backup Center...the same wishful thinking of the last 9 years. They disregarded the injury prone risk of Jones (and Taylor).

The defense I can't really get on. They put it together as the season has gone on, despite rookies in the secondary, despite gaps at DE, etc. It's the offense and the OL particularly that's the problem.

Finding Hawkins in the later rounds and having him flash enough to be a starter as well as Flott coming into a solid 3rd CB has a ton to do with the defense.  That should pay off big time in next couple years as long as their health prevails.  Need to develop pass rush some more and I think they're set for a solid 2024.

But yeah, as surprisingly good as the defense has been, the offense has been that much worse and that falls on the offensive line and QB.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Yeah that's the Vegas Odds, but I think this Front Office/Organization legit thought we were a playoff team going into the season. They probably thought they beefed up the offense with Waller, Campbell, Hyatt, plus bringing back Barkley. They thought the OL would take a leap (e.g. Neal, Ezeudu, Bredeson), and JMS would come in and be a reliable starter right away...which is why they made no tangible OL moves in free agency, other than a backup Center...the same wishful thinking of the last 9 years. They disregarded the injury prone risk of Jones (and Taylor).

The defense I can't really get on. They put it together as the season has gone on, despite rookies in the secondary, despite gaps at DE, etc. It's the offense and the OL particularly that's the problem.

I think the opposite really.

We had no ammunition to bulk up thsi offseason.

We had dead cap from Toney and Golladay plus contracts from Williams, Jackson still on the books, and the only real reinforcements were from the draft.

The FO knew we got weaker this offseason with the only real splash signing/trades being Waller and Okereke.  

If anything they did the right thing by signing the core guys like Dex/Thomas to new contracts. 

Like I said I don't think they expected a bottom 5 team but there is no way they thought this was going to be a repeat year with what happened this past offseason. 

If anything it's a building year and the FO is treating it as such. 

[mastershake]

32 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I think the opposite really.

We had no ammunition to bulk up thsi offseason.

We had dead cap from Toney and Golladay plus contracts from Williams, Jackson still on the books, and the only real reinforcements were from the draft.

The FO knew we got weaker this offseason with the only real splash signing/trades being Waller and Okereke.  

If anything they did the right thing by signing the core guys like Dex/Thomas to new contracts. 

Like I said I don't think they expected a bottom 5 team but there is no way they thought this was going to be a repeat year with what happened this past offseason. 

If anything it's a building year and the FO is treating it as such. 

Paris Campbell and Saquon Barkley, plus cutting Leonard Williams ($10M in cap savings before his restructure) would have been more than enough.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Paris has been Jack Shit since he has been here... and Barkley is not Bradshaw or Jacobs to use a more recent euphemism.  Time to cash him in and rebuild.  He gives up big fumbles and interceptions when you least need them.  He breaks off a great run and always looks for the home run when there is only 4 yards there.

[Sephiroth]

20 hours ago, Herc said:

Their o/u was 7.5 and they’re on pace for 4.  It’s hard to even make up some of the milestones and depths we’ve seen this season 

 

20 hours ago, mastershake said:

Yeah that's the Vegas Odds, but I think this Front Office/Organization legit thought we were a playoff team going into the season. They probably thought they beefed up the offense with Waller, Campbell, Hyatt, plus bringing back Barkley. They thought the OL would take a leap (e.g. Neal, Ezeudu, Bredeson), and JMS would come in and be a reliable starter right away...which is why they made no tangible OL moves in free agency, other than a backup Center...the same wishful thinking of the last 9 years. They disregarded the injury prone risk of Jones (and Taylor).

The defense I can't really get on. They put it together as the season has gone on, despite rookies in the secondary, despite gaps at DE, etc. It's the offense and the OL particularly that's the problem.

I read somewhere that the Giants needed these things to happen to have a chance to compete: 

Andrew Thomas healthy

Evan Neal developed into a competent RT

Jones to stay healthy

Saquon healthy

Waller to be healthy and contribute

At least one interior o-lineman to take the next step 

 

Literally none of those things happened.  When you're 0-for-6 like that I think you can expect these types of seasons. 

[Sephiroth]

Also when it comes to recent NYG teams and the offensive line, I still don't know what the front office has been thinking for the past ten-plus years. 

The last great set of Giants teams had a great set of guys that stayed relatively healthy, but even with five guys that were quality-to-great players, they were always building on the back end.  Oh shit, Chris Snee got hurt?  No worries, we have Rich Seubert in reserve.  Oh man, Diehl tweaked an ankle?  Good thing we snagged Will Beatty in the 2nd a few years back.  Kevin Boothe was a starter-level backup that we had on the team for years, and even the Shaun Andrews' of the roster were good to come in for two or three games and play at an average-to-above average level.  

At some point though we stopped building that way.  The Boothes and Seuberts became starters and the backups became the James Brewers of the team.  Eventually the Brewers became the starters and the guys we don't even remember became the backups. 

You don't build a championship team with five capable OL starters, you really need more like eight.  I'd argue right now we have one. 

This offseason, signing less than one proven player on the OL, AND a quality backup, AND drafting less than two guys for the line is unacceptable.  I don't care that we just wasted three picks on the line two drafts ago; those guys can't hack it. Keep building till you find guys that can; nobody is going to be upset if Ezeudu and Neal develop and all of a sudden we have seven good players there.   We can't continue to have the entire offense go to shit whenever two guys get hurt.

 

[mastershake]

I'm also tired of hearing the suggestion "Well they've tried" or "It's not like they haven't tried to bring guys in to fix the OL."

Gentleman in 2021 did nothing to address the OL, and insisted on going into the season with Nate Solder as a starter, not to mention Shane Lemiuex. We knew there were gaps going in; we rolled with the OL anyway. And I don't want to hear about the Nick Gates injury. That team OL wasn't one player away from being good or even average.

2023 they were banking on 4 guys not named Andrew Thomas to take a leap (or at least 3), but none of them did, and JMS is playing like a rookie. We knew there were gaps going in; we rolled with it anyway.

[Firstnten]

Losing and doing it in boring predictable fashion.

[Sephiroth]

18 hours ago, mastershake said:

I'm also tired of hearing the suggestion "Well they've tried" or "It's not like they haven't tried to bring guys in to fix the OL."

Gentleman in 2021 did nothing to address the OL, and insisted on going into the season with Nate Solder as a starter, not to mention Shane Lemiuex. We knew there were gaps going in; we rolled with the OL anyway. And I don't want to hear about the Nick Gates injury. That team OL wasn't one player away from being good or even average.

2023 they were banking on 4 guys not named Andrew Thomas to take a leap (or at least 3), but none of them did, and JMS is playing like a rookie. We knew there were gaps going in; we rolled with it anyway.

Yeah like... not for nothing, they DID try but after last season of being 0-for-3 with Neal, Ezeudu, and McKethan... and Glowinski and Bredeson also looking pretty bad...  they should have said, "none of those guys looked good so let's bring in a few competent guys either through FA or the draft as a back up plan." 

The plan this year basically was "nothing last year worked out but hey let's hope" when it came to the line.   Hope is not a strategy. 

[mastershake]

4 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Yeah like... not for nothing, they DID try but after last season of being 0-for-3 with Neal, Ezeudu, and McKethan... and Glowinski and Bredeson also looking pretty bad...  they should have said, "none of those guys looked good so let's bring in a few competent guys either through FA or the draft as a back up plan." 

The plan this year basically was "nothing last year worked out but hey let's hope" when it came to the line.   Hope is not a strategy. 

Hope and wishful thinking work when you have 3-4 rock solid proven guys on the line, and are only using wishful thinking on 1-2 others. For instance, JMS would have been much better suited if he were flanked by two capable guards, not the trash we have now.

[BlueInCanada]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:44 PM, mastershake said:

Paris Campbell and Saquon Barkley, plus cutting Leonard Williams ($10M in cap savings before his restructure) would have been more than enough.

But this team would still be in a rebuild granted maybe with one starting guard, still with no WRs and no LBs since we dont land Bobby the OK and we would be starting Eric Gray at RB lol

The result wouldn't be much different if not the same.

All I'm saying is, by week 8 I don't think any (or most) of us thought the Giants would be better than 3-5 with the schedule we have.

Were 2-6.

The FO rolled the dice with the roster and the offseason moves they could make with the limited ammunition.

However they didn't plan for us to be one of the most injured teams in the NFL the first 8 weeks.