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Draft "predictions" thread.


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18 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I'm sorry, but none of these pass rushers are worth the #11 pick.  I'll be very disappointed if we draft one of these guys there. 

Paye wouldn't be my first choice but he probably has the most upside and likelihood to stick in the NFL. Ojulari would just be a real head scratchier. 

That said, these things weigh on me: Here are the most recent crop of DE's/Edge players from Michigan who were drafted high:

- Taco Charlton. Bust

- Chris Wormley. Bust (3rd round, 2017)

- Josh Uche. 2nd round, 2020. Granted it's early, but the early returns are not good.

- Rashan Gary. Granted he's only in year 3, but looks like the makings of a bust or at least underwhelming player.

Successes

- Brandon Graham. He's a decent player, but not sure he's worth #11. He was also drafted way back in 2010.

- Frank Clark. Solid player. In his prime (2016-2018 in Seattle), would consider him worth it #11.

Nevertheless, the list of busts concern me. If we must draft an edge in this class, I'd prefer we trade down. Paye or Ossai I'd be okay with at the #15-22 range. Maybe even just wait to the 2nd or 3rd round. A guy like Payton Turner in the 2nd, or Rashad Weaver, Patrick Johnson in the 3rd.

In general, the more I think about this roster, the less I'm worried about the pass rush because I'm hoping one of these guys can break through: Carter, Ximines, Anderson, Odenigbo, Coughlin, plus let's not forget we have Leonard Williams. 

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17 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Paye wouldn't be my first choice but he probably has the most upside and likelihood to stick in the NFL. Ojulari would just be a real head scratchier. 

That said, these things weigh on me: Here are the most recent crop of DE's/Edge players from Michigan who were drafted high:

- Taco Charlton. Bust

- Chris Wormley. Bust (3rd round, 2017)

- Josh Uche. 2nd round, 2020. Granted it's early, but the early returns are not good.

- Rashan Gary. Granted he's only in year 3, but looks like the makings of a bust or at least underwhelming player.

Successes

- Brandon Graham. He's a decent player, but not sure he's worth #11. He was also drafted way back in 2010.

- Frank Clark. Solid player. In his prime (2016-2018 in Seattle), would consider him worth it #11.

Nevertheless, the list of busts concern me. If we must draft an edge in this class, I'd prefer we trade down. Paye or Ossai I'd be okay with at the #15-22 range. Maybe even just wait to the 2nd or 3rd round. A guy like Payton Turner in the 2nd, or Rashad Weaver, Patrick Johnson in the 3rd.

In general, the more I think about this roster, the less I'm worried about the pass rush because I'm hoping one of these guys can break through: Carter, Ximines, Anderson, Odenigbo, Coughlin, plus let's not forget we have Leonard Williams. 

Lots of talk about how Odenigbo was a massive steal for the Giants in FA.

He was the Vikings second best pass rusher. 

Let's hope him and Williams bring back memories of that 2007 Dline.

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13 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Lots of talk about how Odenigbo was a massive steal for the Giants in FA.

He was the Vikings second best pass rusher. 

Let's hope him and Williams bring back memories of that 2007 Dline.

I really think with Carter, Ximines, Odenigbo, Williams, and possibly a 2nd-3rd round pick, we should have a fairly decent pass rush. One of these guys besides Williams must turn it on.

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On 4/15/2021 at 5:17 PM, mastershake said:

The one surprise is Ojilari. I haven't seen him considered in the top 10, 11, or even top 15 anywhere. I would be disappointed if we drafted him. I won't be upset if we take Paye at #11 but will with Ojilari. Paye has better measurable and overall potential. Paye also can play from day 1 on run and pass downs. Ojilari is just a situational pass rusher at first, at least until they can get him into a weight program and have him gain 10-20 lbs, but then even if he does, who knows if adding weight affects his speed (which is already not as fast as Paye).

Maybe that's just me, but I think Ojulari will be a damn good pro. I like him just fine at 15. 11 may be a tad early.

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I've been digging some more on these WRs, and I'm starting to think Pitts - if evaluated as either a WR or TE - is the first one off the board.

Chase and Devonta Smith are 2 and 2a.

And for the next one.... Most people think Waddle.... I think we'll get a surprise there. Waddle's film is college spectacular, but pro questionable...

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1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

I've been digging some more on these WRs, and I'm starting to think Pitts - if evaluated as either a WR or TE - is the first one off the board.

Chase and Devonta Smith are 2 and 2a.

And for the next one.... Most people think Waddle.... I think we'll get a surprise there. Waddle's film is college spectacular, but pro questionable...

Most mocks seem to now have Pitts going before any of the WRs and I hear scouts say the same thing. I also hear scouts say that Pitts may be best simply moved to a full time WR role.

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Chase seems to be probably the best all around among these three, and with the highest ceiling, but with no 2020 play he may take longer to get there.

Waddle to me seems like the guy who can be a game changer who defenses have to plan around, but he's also the smallest and had recent injuries, so he comes with some question marks.

Smith seems like a well rounded WR but not a game changer like Waddle, plus he's very thin.

I'd be okay with any of them, and at this point I'd say it's a toss up as to which of the three have the better career.

I think 2 / 3 are gone by the time we pick at #11, and that 2 will either be Smith or Waddle (not chase) so in my view, our choice will be between whatever Smith / Waddle or hopefully Slater (and I would pick Slater).

 

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On 4/21/2021 at 10:50 AM, mastershake said:

Chase seems to be probably the best all around among these three, and with the highest ceiling, but with no 2020 play he may take longer to get there.

Waddle to me seems like the guy who can be a game changer who defenses have to plan around, but he's also the smallest and had recent injuries, so he comes with some question marks.

Smith seems like a well rounded WR but not a game changer like Waddle, plus he's very thin.

I'd be okay with any of them, and at this point I'd say it's a toss up as to which of the three have the better career.

I think 2 / 3 are gone by the time we pick at #11, and that 2 will either be Smith or Waddle (not chase) so in my view, our choice will be between whatever Smith / Waddle or hopefully Slater (and I would pick Slater).

 

I'm souring on Waddle. He's a body catcher, for starters. 

Smith is the game changer, if he's paired with a QB that matches his on field intellect. I think he sees the field like few others, his size doesn't matter.

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Why are we even talking wide receivers when OL (Slater) and DE/LB are by far where we need some help?   Didn't we just sign a stud WR and a stud TE?

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1 hour ago, Nas said:

Why are we even talking wide receivers when OL (Slater) and DE/LB are by far where we need some help?   Didn't we just sign a stud WR and a stud TE?

Because Slater and the LBs/DEs are kind of luke warm this draft. 

The difference between Slater and the next OT like VTucker isn't much.

The difference between Rosseau and Paye isnt much.

But the top three WRs in this draft as far and away the best in the draft and no one is a close fourth.

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1 hour ago, Nas said:

Why are we even talking wide receivers when OL (Slater) and DE/LB are by far where we need some help?   Didn't we just sign a stud WR and a stud TE?

Personally, because the edge rushers and offensive linemen (aside from Sewell, who won't be there for us) aren't strong at the top end of the class. 

And as for receiver, we're one injury from Golladay from playing the same shitty WRs from the 31st ranked offense last year. Rudolph has been a very good player. Is he still? Remains to be seen.

And I may be on an island on this one, but I really don't think the OL is anywhere near the teams weakest position group. 

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6 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Because Slater and the LBs/DEs are kind of luke warm this draft. 

The difference between Slater and the next OT like VTucker isn't much.

The difference between Rosseau and Paye isnt much.

But the top three WRs in this draft as far and away the best in the draft and no one is a close fourth.

Oh I don't know... I think it's Pitts, then Smith, then Chase.... And then there are about five guys right there with Waddle, a little of everything in that group too.

I don't think he's on the Giants radar, but I think Rashid Bateman is going to have a better pro career than everyone other than those top three guys.

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1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

Because Slater and the LBs/DEs are kind of luke warm this draft. 

The difference between Slater and the next OT like VTucker isn't much.

The difference between Rosseau and Paye isnt much.

But the top three WRs in this draft as far and away the best in the draft and no one is a close fourth.

Rosseau is sliding lately. Seems a lot of people are concerned about his productivity coming mainly from the Zero technique against guards versus against tackles, plus the year off, plus only a so-so pro day workout.

I think he'll be fine though. Could be a steal in the 2nd if he falls.

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1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Rosseau is sliding lately. Seems a lot of people are concerned about his productivity coming mainly from the Zero technique against guards versus against tackles, plus the year off, plus only a so-so pro day workout.

I think he'll be fine though. Could be a steal in the 2nd if he falls.

I think he's Chris Canty reborn, if he's there in the second it's cartwheels to the podium.

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3 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Because Slater and the LBs/DEs are kind of luke warm this draft. 

The difference between Slater and the next OT like VTucker isn't much.

The difference between Rosseau and Paye isnt much.

But the top three WRs in this draft as far and away the best in the draft and no one is a close fourth.

Then there is Micah Parsons.

I don't bother to beat the drum on a half dozen players who the Giants could draft in the first round never mind seven.  Micah Parsons is the impact guy we need on the roster especially for the defense.   Giants signed one last offseason in Blake Martinez and I think everyone appreciated his production.  The character issues are insignificant and have been blown completely out of proportion.  He might not be ready to be an immediate impact in coverage, I bet he will make up for that in sacks and stops behind the line in his rookie year.

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19 hours ago, Tempest said:

Then there is Micah Parsons.

I don't bother to beat the drum on a half dozen players who the Giants could draft in the first round never mind seven.  Micah Parsons is the impact guy we need on the roster especially for the defense.   Giants signed one last offseason in Blake Martinez and I think everyone appreciated his production.  The character issues are insignificant and have been blown completely out of proportion.  He might not be ready to be an immediate impact in coverage, I bet he will make up for that in sacks and stops behind the line in his rookie year.

I think it's going to depend with Parsons. 

He goes to a team that looses every year or is just average, you'll probably hear about him and his "me first" attitude. 

He goes to a team on the upswing and they win some games he's probably be quiet.

Also let's not act like there might not be a concern.

In 2018 he publically on twitter called out his HC for not changing QBs.

He's started multiple fights with team mates.

He's even admitted to his "past mistakes" and how he won't let those things happen again.

Not saying he's the next TO or Aaron Hernandez but to say there's no cause to look into his off the field stuff isn't something a team picking 11 should do. 

I'd still be happy with the pick though if it's him lol 

Judge will straighten any of that shit out.

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