Coughlin and Jacobs

[Lughead]

LINK

 

 

Brandon Jacobs and Tom Coughlin Written by Glenn Warciski Monday, 06 September 2010 00:00 Second string running back Brandon Jacobs is unhappy.

 

On Friday, Jacobs publicly expressed his thoughts about being demoted. "To be in this business, you have to know that,” Jacobs told ESPN. “No one’s your friend in this business. This is a cutthroat, backstabbing business. That’s just the way it goes. It’s been like that before me. If you expect anything else out of a business like this, you’re crazy.”

 

He then goes on about head coach Tom Coughlin:

 

"Nope, they don’t talk to me about anything,” he said. “They do what they do.”

 

Jacobs is human. I am sure he is frustrated about being "second string." Most importantly, he is peeved at the way Coughlin handled the situation. According to Jacobs' account of this story, Coughlin was not direct with him. Again, this is nothing new about Coughlin. Remember in January 2009, after being phased out of the offense, Amani Toomer was perturbed with the coaching staff .

 

"No, because no matter what, they have an agenda. They're going to go through what they're going to do. I could talk until I'm blue in the face. It's not going to make any difference. I know after dealing with the head coach, that's kind of how he is. You can talk to him and do all of that, but if he has something in his mind, that's what's going to go on."

 

Based on these quotes from Jacobs and Toomer, we can surmise Coughlin's business model is a closed system. My definition of a closed system is no input or new ideas are welcome. If this is the case, coach Coughlin does not listen to his players. This is in stark contrast to his mentor Bill Parcells. While Parcells was coach of the Giants, he was a tough taskmaster. Despite being a stern leader, he did listen to what his players were telling him. From the book Parcells: A Biography written by Bill Gutman, former Giant Phil McConkey said this about Parcells, "Bill is an extremely intelligent man. A quality that allow him to be aware of everything. He has the capacity to see everything and absorb everything. It's almost as if he has a sixth sense. Even though he pretty much had a system and fit the players into that system, he wasn't adverse to taking input from players." McConkey adds, "During the week after we lost to the Eagles to even our record at 4-4 (1984 season), I saw him having a conversation with Rob Carpenter at practice. Rob was a guy he had a lot of respect for because he was a tough, hard-nosed running back. The two of them must have talked for about twenty minutes. I was real close to Carpenter and asked him later what it was all about. Carpenter said, " He asked my opinion and I told him he ought to play Joe Morris more and you more on third down." That's when I took over the role as the third-down receiver. Joe also began to get more carries and was soon showing his immense talent. After that, things began to turn around. Here was Carpenter, a running back, telling him to use Joe Morris more. But that's why Bill listened. There were always certain guys he would listen to."

 

If Coughlin would be more open-minded, perhaps, the Giants would have won more Super Bowls. His leadership style has cost the Giants. In 2008, the Giants should have repeated as champions. Another dissenter Tiki Barber was flummoxed with Coughlin's behavior in 2006. Unbeknownst to many of the players, in the latter part of a season, Coughlin would continue to work his players too hard in practice.

 

''I think he has to start listening to the players a little bit, and come our way -- their way -- a little bit,'' Barber said. ''I don't know if you realize this, but we were in full pads for 17 weeks, and with the amount of injuries that we had, it just takes a toll on you. You physically don't want to be out there, when your body feels the way you do, in full pads.

 

''It probably doesn't have a really detrimental effect on how you practice or how you play. It does on your mind. And if you lose your mind in this game -- their game -- you lose a lot. That's something he has to realize. And I think he does.''

 

Getting back to Jacobs, did Coughlin's awkard handling of the situation lose Jacobs? Is Jacobs pretty much done?

 

Well, Coughlin attempted to clean up the situation. According to New York Daily News' Ralph Vacchiano, Coughlin dodged a question about confronting Jacobs directly about becoming second string. Jacobs' truth is the coaches never told him anything. Coughlin responded, “I’m not sure of all of that.” Since Jacobs is an emotional guy, will he mentally check out? Even though, Coughlin did botch this issue, Brandon Jacobs best days could very well be behind him. Here at UltimateNYG, Pete thinks this is true. Being a former NFL scout, Pete can see things through a different lens. Agree or disagree, but his evaluation of Jacobs not being able to be productive in this league again has value to the way we see the game. The injuries plus the wear and tear of being a running back in this violent professional sport has taken its toll on Jacobs. In this article from Slate magazine, Bill Walsh points out that "players naturally want the big contracts, and to get those you've got to have the big yardage totals. Hardly anyone thinks ahead about how three or four consecutive seasons of 250 or 300 carries can take its toll." Nevertheless, Coughlin could be drawing the same conclusion as Pete. As wide receivers coach under Bill Parcells from 1988-1990, Coughlin saw first hand the deterioration of running back Joe Morris. In 1989, Morris broke his right foot in preseason. He never played another game for the Giants. Despite having different running styles and body types, Jacobs (like Morris) has suffered many injuries.

 

Bradshaw supplanting Jacobs as the starting running back makes the Giants better. But we'll speculate that Coughlin not communicating with Jacobs did not help the Giants.

 

Separately: (1) 2010 Practice Squad Bomar, Collins, Williams, Cordle, Pascoe, Ballard, Rashad. Andre Brown was picked up off of waivers by the Denver Broncos. (2) Revis signed.

 

 

 

 

Coughlin shows he can be a douche or is he just "relaying" a message from above? is this how a CLASSY origination is supposed to work? Also not that Jacobs has been stellar but merely serviceable in the last 2 years . in his first couple of years he was a steam roller until teams figured out how to deal with him . I personally feel it is time to to start thinking about moving Jacobs if we have no football in 2011 we should try to move him in 2012

 

I also think Coughlin needs to be more of people person . He sure would not like the shoe to be on the other foot. which may be coming soon if we don't make it to the playoffs.

[Sephiroth]

LINK

 

 

 

 

Coughlin shows he can be a douche or is he just "relaying" a message from above? is this how a CLASSY origination is supposed to work? Also not that Jacobs has been stellar but merely serviceable in the last 2 years . in his first couple of years he was a steam roller until teams figured out how to deal with him . I personally feel it is time to to start thinking about moving Jacobs if we have no football in 2011 we should try to move him in 2012

 

I also think Coughlin needs to be more of people person . He sure would not like the shoe to be on the other foot. which may be coming soon if we don't make it to the playoffs.

 

I think everyone's opinion of what a "classy" organization is may be a little different. For me, it comes from the top... Mara keeping his hands off of coaching and draft decisions (as opposed to the Jerry Joneses, the Al Davises, etc) and not hiring douches like Rex Ryan, Brandon Marshall, etc.

 

Coughlin is what he is and that's an above-average coach with a Super Bowl ring. Yeah, he may not be a "people person," but he's better than 75% of the guys coaching in the league right now I'd say, and his teams are always well-prepared and play hard. I'll take results over a "people person" any day... NO WAY do I want to go back to a Jim Fassel. I also find it notable that the only people who complain about him are veterans who seem to think they deserve special treatment. Toomer lost a step; Jacobs has lost a step. That's why they were replaced, not because Coughlin isn't personable.

[fringe]

"No, because no matter what, they have an agenda. They're going to go through what they're going to do. I could talk until I'm blue in the face. It's not going to make any difference. I know after dealing with the head coach, that's kind of how he is. You can talk to him and do all of that, but if he has something in his mind, that's what's going to go on."

that's not being a douche, that's being a coach. i don't know what is lug's quotes ansd what is this blogger moron but i can't see that coughlin did anything wrong. of course it's a closed system. if you have the inmates running the asylum, you have fassell '03.

[BlueInCanada]

So what the fuck does Jacobs expect that after he talks to Coughlin he would be put into the starting role?

 

Is Jacobs that fucking stupid to not know how the NFL works?

 

This article is complete B.S. and obviously the writer is disregarding everything the NFL stands for and how it's run.

 

Here's a quick tip Jacobs, when your a RB and your running like complete shit expect to be replaced. Stop acting like a kid and bitching about the Giants organization telling you nothing, everyone and their mother could see Bradshaw has been running better then you and to expect a starting job is just your ego talking.

[eagleEye]

Im fine with how Coughlin runs the ship. If others dont tough shit.

[Storm]

Im fine with how Coughlin runs the ship. If others dont tough shit.

 

I agree, thank god Osi and Jacobs hurt feelings don't actually mean anything to Tom Coughlin. Boo friggin hoo.

[Gman329]

Article is written by someone with selective memory. Does he not recall TC "reinventing" himself a year ago? Does he not recall all the players saying, while he wasn't running the good ship lollipop, he was more interested in them as people and allowed a personality to show though for the first time? Does he not remember the player's council TC formed, so he could get feedback? And finally, does he not recall that Jacobs can be an overemotional baby, who speaks before thinking whenever he's unhappy?

[Lughead]

that's not being a douche, that's being a coach. i don't know what is lug's quotes ansd what is this blogger moron but i can't see that coughlin did anything wrong. of course it's a closed system. if you have the inmates running the asylum, you have fassell '03.

 

All I was trying to say is why couldn't Coughlin sit Jacobs down and say Look your not preforming the way we expect you to preform we are going to sit you down for the time being and let Bradshaw run with the starters for now and see what happens from there.

 

Apparently instead Coughlin says nothing . and perhaps inadvertently creates disdain between him and some players.(he has a hostory of it ) which in turn may create animosity in the locker room . hence the "back stabbing quote from Jacobs.

 

 

I mean If you were working on a project and your boss didn't tell you there would be changes with the project team and what he expect your role with the project would be from that point on wouldn't you be miffed?

 

 

Thats the only thing I mean by Coughlin being a peoples person. Hell no I don't want Coughlin to be fasseleque be no means.

[BleedinBlue]

No coach ever led a winning team by coddling overly sensitive ball players. Winning coaches are like drill sargeants - "quit your bitching and crying like a little fuckin girl - prove yourself or get the hell out of the way of those who are willing to do so".

 

Do you remember Vince Lombardi putting his arm around a running back and telling him how much he cares about his feelings?

 

Do you remember Tom Landry comforting his best player, Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson?

 

Do you remember Mike Ditka consoling QB's who screwed up?

 

How bout Bill Parcells feeling sorry for a player whose feelings were hurt because he fell down the depth chart?

 

 

Bottom line: Talk is cheap and what you did in the past is even cheaper. Put up or shut up. Jacobs job would not be in jeopardy if he stopped dancing behind the line of scrimmage and then folding like a cheap suit after a pickup of six inches over and over and over.

 

Hats off to Coughlin for not coddling players who try to use sympathy in order to be a starter when they don't produce.

[Mr. P]

All I was trying to say is why couldn't Coughlin sit Jacobs down and say Look your not preforming the way we expect you to preform we are going to sit you down for the time being and let Bradshaw run with the starters for now and see what happens from there.

 

Apparently instead Coughlin says nothing . and perhaps inadvertently creates disdain between him and some players.(he has a hostory of it ) which in turn may create animosity in the locker room . hence the "back stabbing quote from Jacobs.

 

 

I mean If you were working on a project and your boss didn't tell you there would be changes with the project team and what he expect your role with the project would be from that point on wouldn't you be miffed?

 

 

Thats the only thing I mean by Coughlin being a peoples person. Hell no I don't want Coughlin to be fasseleque be no means.

 

the coach shouldnt have to sit him down and say that to him. when bradshaw is running with the 1's and jacobs with the 2's it becomes obvious.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

that's not being a douche, that's being a coach. i don't know what is lug's quotes ansd what is this blogger moron but i can't see that coughlin did anything wrong. of course it's a closed system. if you have the inmates running the asylum, you have fassell '03.

 

 

While I agree Lug maybe Coughlin can put some sugar in the castor oil but as everyone is pointing out its not as if this is the Girl Scouts we are dealing with. Football is a lot like boxing where the boxer/football player is the last to realize that he has lost a step or can no longer function. MeMe Barber was still operating at a high level when he left; whereas Toomer and now Jacobs are on the downside of their careers. There is a reason why no one runs Earl Campbell style these days is because its a ticket to a short career.

 

People in My Old Man's generation used to joke about the sideline to sideline style of Franco Harris' or Tony Dorsetts sometimes mysteriously laying the ball on the ground to avoid that punishing hit. Funny thing is that both could still walk after their careers were over...whereas Earl Campbell.... Time to grow up a bit too; how many of us work for organizations where we are informed about every decision upper management makes whether it concerns us or not.

[Ditto]

Someone, be it TC or another coach, should tell Jacobs why he was demoted. In this case, he has a legitimate gripe.

[Storm]

Someone, be it TC or another coach, should tell Jacobs why he was demoted. In this case, he has a legitimate gripe.

 

Dude, you've got to be kidding me. Jacobs can just google "Brandon Jacobs Stats" or "2009-2010 Brandon Jacobs Highlights (good luck)" or hell, even "Ahmad Bradshaw stats 2009-2010" to see why he was demoted. The better performing running back gets the call.

 

What is so mysterious about his demotion? Why do football players NORMALLY get demoted?

[JMFP]

Parcells also said Coughlin was among the best coaches he's ever been around.....and that includes guys like Bill Belichick, who Coughlin beat in the Super Bowl.

 

Yeah, Coughlin can be rough, but look at Mike Shanahan.....he went down to DC, and cut 50% of the team, and the remaining 50% hate his guts. But you can be sure that the Redskins will become a power soon enough.

[fringe]

Parcells also said Coughlin was among the best coaches he's ever been around.....and that includes guys like Bill Belichick, who Coughlin beat in the Super Bowl.

 

Yeah, Coughlin can be rough, but look at Mike Shanahan.....he went down to DC, and cut 50% of the team, and the remaining 50% hate his guts. But you can be sure that the Redskins will become a power soon enough.

you had me until the last line. i don't think the redskins will flourish under faketanahan.

[BleedinBlue]

Someone, be it TC or another coach, should tell Jacobs why he was demoted. In this case, he has a legitimate gripe.

 

I imagine he's been yelled at dozens of times to stop doing the 2-step and dancing around like he was barefoot avoiding broken glass. He has probably been shown films of Walter Payton showing him how to explode and how to manhandle tacklers. He doesn't have to wonder why he lost his starting job.....he knows and he knew it was coming if he couldn't prove he was the better option than Bradshaw.

 

It wasn't all the sudden, Bradshaw repeatedly did better than him.....week after friggin week.

 

The problem is though, that Jacobs gets paid like thee premier RB in the NFL. He's got a contract other RB's can only dream about, he's tasted glory, got the car only super rich men get to own, got the bling (including a SB ring), probably has chicks coming out the ass and more waiting their turn - and not skanks, but legitimate Victoria Secret type models.......and all the sudden, some little shit who makes a pittance compared to him has taken his starting job away.

 

It's called ego!

 

There is nothing complicated about who starts in football. The man who does the best job at each position gets the job - period. I don't care if a guy makes 10 times more than someone else, or that 3 years ago, he was a stud player. It's all about, "what can you give me today". And if you're too friggin sensitive to understand that, you don't friggin belong in football. In football, you have to prove yourself every single week. Nobody cares what you did in 2004.

 

A coach needs a team to win and he's interested in keeping his job. A player that becomes focused on his own career rather than the team becomes a burden.

[JMFP]

you had me until the last line. i don't think the redskins will flourish under faketanahan.

 

So, you're thinking Elways and Terrell Davis have more to do with Denver's success than Shanahan?......you may have a point, but he's a great coach in my opinion.....he's proven he can go all the way with the right guys on board.

[fringe]

So, you're thinking Elways and Terrell Davis have more to do with Denver's success than Shanahan?......you may have a point, but he's a great coach in my opinion.....he's proven he can go all the way with the right guys on board.

 

i think he's an excellent offensive mind. never liked his defenses. and yes, i think elway's the best QB i've ever seen. but more importantly, snyder is not going to be patient.

[boohyah]

If you want ot hear about how Coughlin mishandled a situation, then you would take more heed of what Barber or Strahan or Toomer say as these guys have been top level and long time Giants, who probably deserve some more respect than Coughlin would give them. But I don't how anyone could say Jacobs has earned that priviledge so far. As much as a spectacle as he has been at times,overall he's nowhere the runner Hampton or barber were. Again, it's another sign of an epidemic in Giantsland. Do your talking off the field, not on it.

 

 

Frankly, the problem is Coughlin did talk to him, he should have yelled at him.

[BlueInCanada]

If you want ot hear about how Coughlin mishandled a situation, then you would take more heed of what Barber or Strahan or Toomer say as these guys have been top level and long time Giants, who probably deserve some more respect than Coughlin would give them. But I don't how anyone could say Jacobs has earned that priviledge so far. As much as a spectacle as he has been at times,overall he's nowhere the runner Hampton or barber were. Again, it's another sign of an epidemic in Giantsland. Do your talking off the field, not on it.

 

 

Frankly, the problem is Coughlin did talk to him, he should have yelled at him.

 

And what did Coughlin do to disrespect any of them?

[fringe]

And what did Coughlin do to disrespect any of them?

 

i think strahan had a beef. veteran status allows some privileges. coughlin thought so as well as he changed his style in that sense.

[boohyah]

And what did Coughlin do to disrespect any of them?

 

 

Well the Toomer quote is above, and Tiki has complained many times. Strahan probably could have done without getting a fine for not showing up 5 minutes early than 5 minutes early for a meeting. But that's not really the essence of what I mean. Let's put it this way, if a coach based the respect a player deserved based on longevity and productivity and reliablility, then Jacobs would be way off the pace right now.

[BleedinBlue]

If a coach treats any player like a prima donna regardless of performance.....the coach is a loser. If a coach is more concerned with hurt feelings and keeping certain people happy because they believe they deserve it....the coach is a loser.

 

Winning coaches cannot afford to change team strategy based on a single players feelings The team has to operate like a well oiled machine with everyone doing their part according to the coaches' schemes and a good coach will arrange personnel in such a way as to give him the best opportunity to guide the team to a victory. If a player doesn't get it because he has a sensitive ego.....then he's better off to go to another team.

 

All great coaches care more about winning than keeping a few self-proclaimed prima donnas happy.

 

I'm a huge Syracuse fan and when new coach Doug Marrone came to town last year to take over a disastrous team that hadn't won an opening game in almost 10 years and compiled records of 2 wins and a dozen losses the past few years, at least 25 players quit after the first couple of practices and after listening to Marrone tell them how it was going to be. Some of the best players on the team left and everyone thought the team was screwed. So Marone put together a team from the left overs and a few recruits and guess what.....they won their opening game 29-3 and it would've been 36-3 if Marrone didn't have the Orange sit on the last possession so as not to humiliate the opponents any further.

 

Check out the personalities of all winning coaches. They were tough as nails and always played the players who gave the coach what was expected of him.

[fishgutmartyr]

The artic'e is a hack job. Carpenter in 84 was already on the decline, and hadn't been the starter for two or three years. There is no real comparison between his and Jacob's situation. And as much as I like Jacobs play in the past, there's no denying that he can't play hurt.

 

Toomer is just lucky Burress extended his career 2-3 years. He was horrible in 2004.

[Nas]

So what the fuck does Jacobs expect that after he talks to Coughlin he would be put into the starting role?

 

Is Jacobs that fucking stupid to not know how the NFL works?

 

This article is complete B.S. and obviously the writer is disregarding everything the NFL stands for and how it's run.

 

Here's a quick tip Jacobs, when your a RB and your running like complete shit expect to be replaced. Stop acting like a kid and bitching about the Giants organization telling you nothing, everyone and their mother could see Bradshaw has been running better then you and to expect a starting job is just your ego talking.

 

From reading the article, a little communication goes a very long way. A coach should invite the player into his office for an adult conversation.. and coughlin shows none of that.