20/20 hindsight...

[Sephiroth]

...I guess Tiki needed the Giants more than the Giants needed Tiki, huh?

 

Just sayin'

[BIGBLUE01]

IMO, we still would have won the SB if Tiki played another year. But Im sure it stings a bit, no matter what face he tries to wear.

[Virginia Giant]

IMO, we still would have won the SB if Tiki played another year. But Im sure it stings a bit, no matter what face he tries to wear.

Talent wise it's no contest, but with Tiki would the Giants have adopted the Team first mentality that carried them through the season and more importantly the playoffs?

[BIGBLUE01]

Talent wise it's no contest, but with Tiki would the Giants have adopted the Team first mentality that carried them through the season and more importantly the playoffs?

 

Sure they would have. When that mentality started coming to fruition, Tiki would have grasped it and ran with it, Im quite sure.

[Gspotter]

It was a different offense with Tiki back there. He was great and made big plays, but the offense didn't show the same balance until he was gone.

 

My guess is that we wouldn't have won it with him. Sometimes the dynamics of a team have a lot of variables and it goes beyond him, it's how routes are run when we skew so heavily towards Tiki, it's how we block and get used to blocking, and it's how our QB had very shakey RB/receivers out of the backfield, so the old faithful wasn't consistantly there.

 

Who knows what impact those things had, but if we were still all about Tiki, the Pats would have taken him out of the game and then we'd have seen a different gig. Besides out RB rotation has never been so clear as it was last season, prior to it was obvious.

[NightFire]

Talent wise it's no contest, but with Tiki would the Giants have adopted the Team first mentality that carried them through the season and more importantly the playoffs?

 

When the Giants were 10-6 or when they beat GB? Really this whole team thing isn't why the Giants won the SB. Luck and a good game plan is why. Tiki wasn't destroying the Giants and they did very well with him also.

[jranieli]

When the Giants were 10-6 or when they beat GB? Really this whole team thing isn't why the Giants won the SB. Luck and a good game plan is why. Tiki wasn't destroying the Giants and they did very well with him also.

 

They did very well but it seemed like the offense was based around Tiki. Eli seemed to struggle a lot and Tiki had the offense on his back too many times. The past season, Eli had the offense on his back most of the time. That was were he matured. If Tiki was on the team last year, the team still would have made the playoffs but winning a Super Bowl, I am not sure. It was not only til the end of the year and playoffs is where Eli really matured and played smart. Maybe this coming season was the year where Tiki would have finally taken a break and Eli took the reigns.

[Herc]

when leaders like tiki and strahan are openly defying the coach and not buying into what he has to say, the rest of the team is going to follow suit. mike got on board, tiki never did

[Nas]

...I guess Tiki needed the Giants more than the Giants needed Tiki, huh?

 

Just sayin'

 

who?

[Allstarjim]

No way to possibly say but I would say we would have been just as strong a team if we had Tiki. The Giants won in 2008 not because of the absence of Tiki, but but because of:

 

a) The improved and consistent play from Eli from week 17 and throughout the playoffs

b) The defensive genius of Steve Spagnuolo

c) Emergence of Justin Tuck

d) Improvement of secondary play behind Webster and Ross

e) Contributions from unlikely sources previously not there in previous years (Mitchell, Bradshaw, Steve Smith)

f) Tom Coughlin loosening his dictatorship style of coaching in 2008.

g) Relative health (especially on the offensive and defensive lines); the only major injuries were to Shockey and Kiwanuka, and able replacements stepped up (Boss, Torbor).

 

If Tiki was so wrong, Coughlin wouldn't have thought he needed to change, yet he did (just as an aside). The argument that we wouldn't have won with Tiki is about as ill-advised as the argument that we wouldn't have won if Shockey hadn't gotten hurt. There's no way of saying that. One thing for sure IS certain about Tiki, though, is that every Sunday when he stepped inbetween the stripes he gave everything he had and left it all out on the field. In the past, Tiki NEEDED to carry the offense because Eli hadn't yet reached a consistent performance level that it took for this team to win, not to mention other factors like a weak 3rd WR and injuries on offense that we didn't have last year.

 

Instead of saying what we wouldn't have done with Tiki this past season, the argument should be made what would we have done without him in seasons prior? And I can answer that one... zero playoff appearances.

 

For the record, I'm sure Tiki was probably stung that he didn't get a ring.... but he rooted these Giants on all the way through the SuperBowl just like the rest of us.

[NightFire]

No way to possibly say but I would say we would have been just as strong a team if we had Tiki. The Giants won in 2008 not because of the absence of Tiki, but but because of:

 

a) The improved and consistent play from Eli from week 17 and throughout the playoffs

b) The defensive genius of Steve Spagnuolo

c) Emergence of Justin Tuck

d) Improvement of secondary play behind Webster and Ross

e) Contributions from unlikely sources previously not there in previous years (Mitchell, Bradshaw, Steve Smith)

f) Tom Coughlin loosening his dictatorship style of coaching in 2008.

g) Relative health (especially on the offensive and defensive lines); the only major injuries were to Shockey and Kiwanuka, and able replacements stepped up (Boss, Torbor).

 

If Tiki was so wrong, Coughlin wouldn't have thought he needed to change, yet he did (just as an aside). The argument that we wouldn't have won with Tiki is about as ill-advised as the argument that we wouldn't have won if Shockey hadn't gotten hurt. There's no way of saying that. One thing for sure IS certain about Tiki, though, is that every Sunday when he stepped in between the stripes he gave everything he had and left it all out on the field. In the past, Tiki NEEDED to carry the offense because Eli hadn't yet reached a consistent performance level that it took for this team to win, not to mention other factors like a weak 3rd WR and injuries on offense that we didn't have last year.

 

Instead of saying what we wouldn't have done with Tiki this past season, the argument should be made what would we have done without him in seasons prior? And I can answer that one... zero playoff appearances.

 

For the record, I'm sure Tiki was probably stung that he didn't get a ring.... but he rooted these Giants on all the way through the SuperBowl just like the rest of us.

 

Well said, the offense and Tiki had nothing to do with those playoff loses. Both times the D was just far too weak and last year finally stopped teams. In Carolina they just ran up and down the field and the Philly game should have been a win if the D could have stopped a drive. Hell I'd say the Giants would have won by more than 3 points each time if Tiki was still playing.

[BIGBLUE01]

Yeah, I also agree with Jim. Remember, Tiki was trying to get Eli to take the lead in his final couple of years. Telling him in the huddle to take the reigns. Tiki had a team first mentality, it just got overshadowed by a "me-me" attitude when the retirement talks began. But he said openely when he was a Giant, that if it came down to it, he would take a paycut to stay in Blue.

[Treehugger]

If Tiki stayed we'd never have known how good Ward is.

[Gspotter]

If Baltimore knew how to stiffle Tiki, I'm guessing NE might have figured it out too. We would have relied upon him too much.

 

He was great, I appreciate him, his time and our victory are totally different. If Jake keeps getting only short yardage he doesn't crush Woodson against GB, if Ward doesn't play at all we've got tons of problems, and with Tiki in the fold Bradshaw never breaks it open on Buffalo.

 

One thing doesn't just offset one other and there are tons of variables involved, but rest assured, Eli doesn't mecome the latter day Eli if Tiki is still the safety valve

[boohyah]

I think Tiki's career as a teleprompter reader so far has been out of this world. All I can remember is almost being in tears at how well he read off those words during the 4th of July Macy's fireworks on NBC. Those magical words " Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to watch tomorrow's episode of 30 Rock here..............on NBC", it was then I just said to myself, just like like Noah, he had a higher calling.................bigger than a Superbowl!.

[NightFire]

If Tiki stayed we'd never have known how good Ward is.

 

If Ward doesn't stop breaking every bone in his lower body nobody will know. Ward was the backup for Tiki also but just keeps getting hurt year after year.

[Nas]

I think Tiki's career as a teleprompter reader so far has been out of this world. All I can remember is almost being in tears at how well he read off those words during the 4th of July Macy's fireworks on NBC. Those magical words " Thanks for tuning in, and don't forget to watch tomorrow's episode of 30 Rock here..............on NBC", it was then I just said to myself, just like like Noah, he had a higher calling.................bigger than a Superbowl!.

 

A bit cold.. i like it