Shockey on the way out?

[gateb]

we have a gaping hole at TE if he does leave. Is Boss ready yet? Defenses haven't focused on him, and he still has some work to do with blocking.

 

I'd really love to keep him for another year but with all this other stuff coming up I really don't know what to think.

 

[so-cal dub]

What happened to the Carolina trade rumor? That was a juicy one...

[gateb]

What happened to the Carolina trade rumor? That was a juicy one...

Where did that one come from anyway? I would do that one in a heartbeat.

[Nas]

Seriously fellas, think about the details here: He was making demands that his role with the team be changed or else while the team was still fighting for a playoff berth and he was no longer playing due to yet another injury. That says all you need to know about this idiot. He's as dumb as a box of rocks.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

 

I think whatever issues he might have with the organization are trivial in nature and can be worked out pretty easily. I would like Shockey to remain with the Giants. His positives far outweigh his negatives in my opinion. I think he should take a page of out Plax's play book; namely but getting his head in the game.. no more antics.. and come to play with authority. Plax turned his season around by simply playing like he's capable of playing.

 

And I can tell you from my own experience playing sports that when you keep your head in the game (pay attention.. no trash talking.. no complaining), great things happen.

[mickeef2]

Here's the problem. Everybody is fucking talking now. Reese, the newspapers, Friends of Shockey, and all of this reduce his trade value and as it gets closer to the draft it gets lower.

 

I disagree. I think the best thing to do, in light of the fact that he's whining behind the scenes and we won a Super Bowl without him, is to let all teams know he's available. Why make a hush-hush deal with the Saints without getting other teams involved? We can raise the price if others are interested. I think Reese is letting it be known that he's available because it's an unfixable situation. He's going, it's just a matter of to whom.

 

[mickeef2]

And I can tell you from my own experience playing sports that when you keep your head in the game (pay attention.. no trash talking.. no complaining), great things happen.

 

You just made my point for me Nas- How long have we been waiting for this guy to get his head in the game? Do you really think it's ever going to happen?

[socalscholar]

I am on the fence on this one.

 

I would like to see Shockey become part of this team throughout the year.

 

He strikes me as someone who did step up to become a better blocker, but expects more than he should as part of the offense as a receiver.

 

The question is, does he want to win or does he want to just have the best numbers at his position.

 

Either way, showing to the OTA's would help acheive both and where is he?

 

Enough said!!

 

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

And I can tell you from my own experience playing sports that when you keep your head in the game (pay attention.. no trash talking.. no complaining), great things happen.

 

Agreed. I never understood people that lose and still continue to run their mouth. Shut your mouth and play the game. Let your play on the field do the talking. The Giants swept the playoffs on the road without you Shockey. You don't have much leverage here. Shut your mouth and play ball.

[xxi-xxv]

I think all you need to know like I believe mickeef pointed out is that during a potential seasn ending run to the playoffs he started bitching. Pre playoffs being clinched.

 

That seals it for me, this guy is not a team player at all. Great talent, but a true asshole.

[charlietags]

You're right Bleedin, it's a fine offer. Here's the problem. Everybody is fucking talking now. Reese, the newspapers, Friends of Shockey, and all of this reduce his trade value and as it gets closer to the draft it gets lower. The only way we can get more for him is if we shop him around, but right now it looks like the Saints only. And if he really said this about his role, then he's coming off as a me first player and some teams won't deal with him.

 

It was been talked about on NFL radio yesterday about the Harper deal, and the consensus was that the Saints would be dumb to give up Harper. They shoild go at most 2nd rounder with a conditional pick next year, based on his playing time and performance, which seems like the smart way to go.

Shockey was a problem for Eli and as we saw he played better without him or is that my imagination? As much as I love Shockey, I love my Giants more. Team is something Shockey has never learned.

 

BTW did you see the Hopkins - Calzaghe fight. Very nice

[Nas]

You just made my point for me Nas- How long have we been waiting for this guy to get his head in the game? Do you really think it's ever going to happen?

 

Actually I do. He needs to look no further than Plax. If he doesn't shape up this year, then I'll be in favor of a trade but for now, I believe #80 should remain a Giant.

[eagleEye]

Actually I do. He needs to look no further than Plax. If he doesn't shape up this year, then I'll be in favor of a trade but for now, I believe #80 should remain a Giant.

 

Thats exctly how I feel. Everyone wants him out because he "called out the coaches." If this refers to the Seattle comment about beingoutcoached than he had every right to say it. He was talking about the defense, which by the way means he was talking about Tim Lewis. Everyone in Giant country was calling for his head, atleast i know i was. Sockey wants to win. I thik all these "rumors" are put out to sell newspappers.

[fishgutmartyr]

I think all you need to know like I believe mickeef pointed out is that during a potential seasn ending run to the playoffs he started bitching. Pre playoffs being clinched.

 

That seals it for me, this guy is not a team player at all. Great talent, but a true asshole.

 

A further piece of evidence about what was wrong with Fassel's teams as well. I don't think it's an accident that the only ones standing from that period are Toomer, Osi, and Seubert. Strahan was drafted before Fassel. Toomer spent some time in Fassel's dog house. Osi was a rookie in 2003, if I remember correctly.

[boohyah]

A further piece of evidence about what was wrong with Fassel's teams as well. I don't think it's an accident that the only ones standing from that period are Toomer, Osi, and Seubert. Strahan was drafted before Fassel. Toomer spent some time in Fassel's dog house. Osi was a rookie in 2003, if I remember correctly.

 

 

My impartiality to Fassel aside, high turnover of players is not unfamiliar in the league today. Barber and Shockey had at least 3 years under Coughlin. You think Ron Dayne would play any better under Coughlin?, Keith Hamilton retired, free agency, there's a lot of factors involved.

 

The Fassel/Coughlin debate isn't even a factor anymore, Coughlin wins Superbowl, Fassel loses Superbowl. It doesn't matter how I feel.

[fishgutmartyr]

My impartiality to Fassel aside, high turnover of players is not unfamiliar in the league today. Barber and Shockey had at least 3 years under Coughlin. You think Ron Dayne would play any better under Coughlin?, Keith Hamilton retired, free agency, there's a lot of factors involved.

 

The Fassel/Coughlin debate isn't even a factor anymore, Coughlin wins Superbowl, Fassel loses Superbowl. It doesn't matter how I feel.

 

As much as I would love to gloat a little, you misunderstood my point. Believe it or not, my post was not an attempt to bash Fassel the coach. Since Dayne played a year under Coughlin and failed miserably (surprise, surprise), I'm not even calling Coughlin some sort of miracle worker.

 

My point was the attitudes of the players, particularly our stars, absolutely sucked in those years; and helped keep the team in mediocrity. In fact, you still saw it as late as 2006. There were subtle signs of shifting before then, but I don't think there was the total culture shift until this past year. Maybe Coughlin initiated it with with his willingness to adjust, maybe not.

 

It could just as easily be players like Pierce coming into the fold and telling those on board how good they actually had it here. For all I know, he might have been this generation's Rob Carpenter.

 

It's also clear that the remaining players from the Fassel era fell into three groups: total buy-in; lip service to the team concept but same old attitude; and unwilling to budge at all. It's no surprise that the two guys that have unquestionably totally bought-in to the team concept (Toomer and Seubert) will more than likely retire Giants.

[boohyah]

Shockey was a problem for Eli and as we saw he played better without him or is that my imagination? As much as I love Shockey, I love my Giants more. Team is something Shockey has never learned.

 

BTW did you see the Hopkins - Calzaghe fight. Very nice

 

 

Charles, good to hear from you. I taped the fight and I've watched only 2 rounds so far. I watched the UFC show on Saturday night till 1pm and I wan't able to stay awake.

 

You watched Pacman and Marquez?. Now that was a good fight.

[gmenroc]

Very simple regarding the Shockey situation. If the right price comes along, then pull the trigger and kiss his ass goodbye.

 

My understanding regarding the Saints 2nd rounder + Harper is what we wanted and what the Saints refused. Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought that wasn't a bad deal to accept from our perspective. If you take Harper out of the equation, we shouldn't accept anything less than a 1st and 3rd.

 

The other option is to use Shockey to move up in the draft. Package Shockey and our 5th for the Saint's 1st. Something like that.

[JMFP]

Personally, I think that if Shockey is going anywhere, we'll all find out this coming weekend. I think he either gets moved in the draft or stays put.

 

I'm not worried either way what happens. I've been very critical of Shockey over the past couple years, but following the SB win, I'm much less concerned.

 

I always felt that Shockey was a great player who could be so much better if he just exercised better self-discipline. Part of my frustration was in (wrongly) thinking that the only way for the Giants to win another championship would be for Shockey to have a monster year.

 

But now that we've won the big game without Shockey, the dynamics of the team have completely changed. And, given what we've seen in 2007, my faith in the coaching staff and scouting dept has been completely restored. Shockey will either be a valuable contributor for the Giants, or else a valuable bargaining chip for a high draft pick or trade....either way, it will be to the team's benefit.

[Treehugger]

Let's see some quotable sources before we damn Shockey to hell, eh? That first piece is complete guesswork.

[Sephiroth]

If Shockey is pulling the "I'm going to sit out next season" shit, then he needs to go. Last thing we need is another big mouth Tiki on this team. He's me me me...I dont want to block all the time, ect.

 

 

I don't think he's said he'll sit out. Good luck with that if he ever does.

 

And also, let's just keep everything in perspective... remember at this point last year, we had Strahan getting ready for a holdout and that worked out just fine for us. It's the offseason, people need stuff to write about... but also, sometimes where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens as the weekend approaches.

 

[BleedinBlue]

Everyone knows that the Saints are enamored with Shockey and that the Seahawks have also inquired about getting him. But the latest rumor says that Atlanta wants to replace their aging TE Alge Crumpler and have inquired about a trade for Shockey. Atlanta has (3) 2nd round picks (34th, 37th and 48th) so they have good trading material.

 

I suspect that during the draft, an announcement will be made that Shockey has been traded. If not, I'll be happy either way. However, we're probably going to lose Shockey to free agency next season anyway so we might as well get what we can while the gettin's good.

[BleedinBlue]

Article today from Newsday

 

Giants Should Trade Shockey

 

Arthur Staple

3:23 PM EDT, April 22, 2008

 

Things are quiet around the Giants these days, with voluntary offseason workouts and the draft coming up.

 

"Voluntary workout" is code, in Jeremy Shockey's life, for "see you in June." This has never really been a bad thing, what with Shockey always performing well for a good chunk of his six seasons before he gets slowed or, as happened in December, stopped by an injury.

 

Shockey's voice is never heard in the springtime around Giants Stadium, but his name sure is. Whether it's from reporters asking Eli Manning whether he wants Shockey to be there for these voluntary workouts, or as Tuesday, when guys like Dave Diehl and No. 2 tight end Kevin Boss get peppered with questions about whether Shockey would still make a good, productive Giant.

 

Their answers, of course, were positive. Boss still has a lot to learn and a lot of muscle to build before he can be a solid No. 1 tight end; Manning was away on his honeymoon, but he told our Tom Rock a few weeks ago that the Giants definitely want Shockey around.

 

Here's the deal with Shockey: He plays hard, he plays hurt, but I can't really say if he ever plays happy. Maybe he couldn't say that either. The chip on his shoulder goes all the way back to Ada, Okla., and a kid who was mad at the world and hasn't really stopped being mad.

 

So if he's disgruntled about the broken leg that kept him from the Giants' Super Bowl run, or about his role in Tom Coughlin's deliberate offense, or about whether he feels properly loved by his teammates, that's not really breaking news.

 

He has talked before about loving his role in Sean Payton's offense when Jim Fassel was head coach, but Shockey omits the reality of his first two Giants seasons. They had the dramatic meltdown in San Francisco in the playoffs, then it was 4-12 and goodbye Fassel.

 

So Shockey was unhappy that his team stunk. Now, his team is great, but he wants a different role, or perhaps a trade. No one can be sure of what he wants, because - without getting too much inside his head - I don't think Shockey really knows what he wants as a football player.

 

He has millions, and job security if he wants it. He has four Pro Bowls. He has tons of talent. And now, even though he probably would say he didn't earn one, he has a Super Bowl ring.

 

If Shockey wants out, the Giants should oblige. A second-round pick would suffice, especially from a team that picks high up in the second round, giving the Giants a couple of top 50 picks to shore up the secondary, or the receiving corps, or even with a tight end.

 

I could point to all the positive things that happened when Shockey was injured - Boss' improvement, Manning's incredible improvement, the offense's efficiency and simplicity - but, really, logic doesn't have to apply here.

 

Shockey is an unhappy guy most times. The Giants, reigning champions, could gladly show him that the grass is never greener, especially for a me-first guy in the NFL.

[BIGBLUE01]

I wouldn't go that far.

 

I think whatever issues he might have with the organization are trivial in nature and can be worked out pretty easily. I would like Shockey to remain with the Giants. His positives far outweigh his negatives in my opinion. I think he should take a page of out Plax's play book; namely but getting his head in the game.. no more antics.. and come to play with authority. Plax turned his season around by simply playing like he's capable of playing.

 

And I can tell you from my own experience playing sports that when you keep your head in the game (pay attention.. no trash talking.. no complaining), great things happen.

 

While he was injured none the less.

[eagleEye]

If Shockey wants out, the Giants should oblige. A second-round pick would suffice, especially from a team that picks high up in the second round, giving the Giants a couple of top 50 picks to shore up the secondary, or the receiving corps, or even with a tight end.

 

Anyone who wants only a seound round pick for him doesnt have much brains. Draft picks come and go, solid players stand above.

[hlb37]

 

 

agreed. u would have to get an established player plus a third rd pk or 2 2nds to even consider doing the deal.