Good game Eli, good game.

[Nesta]

Settle down.

 

Seriously, Eli is on track to be the best qb this franchise has ever seen.

If you have any doubt about that, you need to go look at the stats.

 

He's not an elite qb, but he is damn good.

Was he worth the price we paid? Probably not, but that's done.

Nothing we can do about that.

 

But he is a damn good qb that 20 or more teams in the league would love to have.

[Nas]

Seriously, Eli is on track to be the best qb this franchise has ever seen.

If you have any doubt about that, you need to go look at the stats.

 

He's not an elite qb, but he is damn good.

Was he worth the price we paid? Probably not, but that's done.

Nothing we can do about that.

 

But he is a damn good qb that 20 or more teams in the league would love to have.

 

Good point, Nesta. I'm with you on that as well.

 

[Virginia Giant]

Settle down.

Nice way to back out of that one there buddy. Instead of either backing up your claim or conceding to the fact you're wrong, play it off with a lmao smilie.

[Sephiroth]

First of all VG, if his name were Sephiroth he'd be throwing 10 TDs per game.

 

My problem with Eli isn't how he plays... it's that some people hold on to ANYTHING to make the guy seem better than he is. I hope I'm wrong, but at this point (year 4), we know what we have: Bernie Kosar. He's not Dave Brown, but he's not his brother, either. Can we win a Superbowl with him? Sure... but as stated earlier, that doesn't make him great.

 

And for the record, Phil Simms was a VERY good, but not great QB. If he had played in San Francisco, he likely would have been great... and let's not forget that Simms was benched for Scott Brunner early in his career... that's how great he was.

 

Hey, I said it before and I'm gonna say it again: 8-8 this year. 7-9 if the Pats don't sit their starters in the last game.

[BlueInCanada]

Nice way to back out of that one there buddy. Instead of either backing up your claim or conceding to the fact you're wrong, play it off with a lmao smilie.

 

In what way do I have to prove myself to anyone on the boards? I stated what I believe and just because I don't want to sit on this site all night trying to defend myself doesn't mean I'm "backing out". So what do you want me to do sit here and argue to you about how I believe in my opinion? It's a message board not congress we state our opinions on the Giants, I stated mine. Why is that so hard to take?

[Nas]

Not true, the only requirement most of us on the Eli Love Wagon have is that people have some type of thougth process. Eli makes mistakes, yep, makes quite a few of them. But then Tony Romo did throw 5 int's vs one of the worst pass defences in the league, and everyone is currently jerking off to his boyish grin.

 

Look at any Giants quarterback and tell me who is better through four years.

 

Does Eli have the charisma of Romo or Favre? Nope

 

The intensity of Peyton? Uh-uh

 

What he does have is a division title and back to back playoff appearences to his credit.

Eli's two biggest faults are his last name and the price we paid. He's not what most people expected, but he's better than average and on pace to having a very sucessful career. If his last name were Sephiroth, we'd all be talking about how good he is.

 

Great point bringing up his performance against Buffalo. But look at his perfomance today, he basically lobbed the ball up in the air on mostly blown coverages. The first TD for example.. OWEN was wide open on 2 TDs.

 

Our O scored 20 points against a very good Dallas D. Why did our D allow over 30 points again?

 

Answer: Our Pass Defense was exposed.

Extra Point: Plax sucks.

[Nas]

First of all VG, if his name were Sephiroth he'd be throwing 10 TDs per game.

 

My problem with Eli isn't how he plays... it's that some people hold on to ANYTHING to make the guy seem better than he is. I hope I'm wrong, but at this point (year 4), we know what we have: Bernie Kosar. He's not Dave Brown, but he's not his brother, either. Can we win a Superbowl with him? Sure... but as stated earlier, that doesn't make him great.

 

And for the record, Phil Simms was a VERY good, but not great QB. If he had played in San Francisco, he likely would have been great... and let's not forget that Simms was benched for Scott Brunner early in his career... that's how great he was.

 

Hey, I said it before and I'm gonna say it again: 8-8 this year. 7-9 if the Pats don't sit their starters in the last game.

 

Seph, I think most of us here VG, Nesta, and myself included are just realistic about Eli. We're not saying he's a superstar. But he's a very good QB. Blaming this loss on him and forgetting Plax's disappearing act, the holding penalty that negated the 83 or 84 yard kick off return, and the holding call that negated the TD..

 

If you're looking for the silver bullet for why we lost this game, it's that our Pass Defense sucks major balls... and I'll say it till Plax get cut... PLAX SUCKS.

[Virginia Giant]

In what way do I have to prove myself to anyone on the boards? I stated what I believe and just because I don't want to sit on this site all night trying to defend myself doesn't mean I'm "backing out". So what do you want me to do sit here and argue to you about how I believe in my opinion? It's a message board not congress we state our opinions on the Giants, I stated mine. Why is that so hard to take?

If you're going to make a claim on a message board, like "Eli is no Simms", then it is expected you back up your argument with SOMETHING when called on your statement. No, you don't have to argue or back your point up, but then again I could say my shit smells like lemon scented pine sol, I'd be wrong but then again i don't have to explain why i think that.

[gateb]

Plax was limping noticably in the 4th. His ankle is really hampering him.

 

Eli's struggles can be attributed to our lack of a deep threat. When Plax gets clamped down, no one on our offense truly scares the Cowboys into moving deep in coverage.

 

Good but not great, you guys are gonna have to deal with that Eli.

[BlueInCanada]

Seph, I think most of us here VG, Nesta, and myself included are just realistic about Eli. We're not saying he's a superstar. But he's a very good QB. Blaming this loss on him and forgetting Plax's disappearing act, the holding penalty that negated the 83 or 84 yard kick off return, and the holding call that negated the TD..

 

If you're looking for the silver bullet for why we lost this game, it's that our Pass Defense sucks major balls... and I'll say it till Plax get cut... PLAX SUCKS.

 

And once again I will say for the last time tonight, that I don't blame the kid for the loss. It was a team loss. We could blame everything and anything on the loss, the pass D the penalties the interceptions, the O-line, it can go on and on. All I'm saying is that after these 4 years with the team the kid has shown me he is nothing more then an average QB. He had one good game then one bad, occasionally he has had those fourth quarter comebacks and hell I supported him through those first 4 years. But now after this game I have just lost faith in the kid at being out QB. It seems like he's at a stalemate in his carrier he doesn't appear to get any better but it doesn't appear like hes getting progressively worse.

 

I still support the Giant's 100% and will support them threw thick and thin, if we lose the rest I'm still going to be here. I'm a die hard fan and will always be one, I just don't believe that we have the right QB under center. Maybe he will prove me wrong but right now I just don't believe it.

[Sephiroth]

Seph, I think most of us here VG, Nesta, and myself included are just realistic about Eli. We're not saying he's a superstar. But he's a very good QB. Blaming this loss on him and forgetting Plax's disappearing act, the holding penalty that negated the 83 or 84 yard kick off return, and the holding call that negated the TD..

 

If you're looking for the silver bullet for why we lost this game, it's that our Pass Defense sucks major balls... and I'll say it till Plax get cut... PLAX SUCKS.

 

If you basically just cut and paste everything Blue in Canada said, it reflects my opinion. But to answer your post, I don't think Eli is a "very good" QB. Matt Hasselbeck is a "very good" QB. Donovan McNabb is a "very good" QB. Eli is an average QB, in my opinion, and I'm starting to think more and more that's all he'll ever be.

[Sephiroth]

Hey Blue in Canada; check my sig. We're actually of the same mind... I was just a year ahead of you, lol.

[fringe]

Looked to me like he was running for his life all game. Perhaps one of you Eli judgers can give an example where a QB had a spectacular game without the help of his teammates and coaches.

 

Montana didn't do it/, Elway did it with legs sometimes but not often/, Steve Young same- / Favre- look how far he went on a bad team- everyone thought him to be washed up. Peyton is all about the system and so is Brady and so is Romo.

 

 

[Nesta]

Looked to me like he was running for his life all game. Perhaps one of you Eli judgers can give an example where a QB had a spectacular game without the help of his teammates and coaches.

 

Montana didn't do it/, Elway did it with legs sometimes but not often/, Steve Young same- / Favre- look how far he went on a bad team- everyone thought him to be washed up. Peyton is all about the system and so is Brady and so is Romo.

 

 

Ofcourse that'll fall on deaf ears. Some people are more concerned with being right about their predictions than being in touch with reality. Speaking of, can we just pin a fucking thread with Seph's 8-8 prediction so it doesn't need to be included in every Gint's thread?

[xxi-xxv]

HAS DONE NOTHING? HAS DONE NOTHING?

 

Are you fucking kidding me?

In the last start of his rookie season (2004) Eli Manning directed a Giants team who's

starting receivers didn't catch a touchdown pass that year, he directed a pathetic team

to a win against the hapless Cowboys by audbling to a draw play for the win in that game.

This is when I knew we had a quarterback.

 

2005, on a cold and blustery day in the New York tri-state area The Giants were getting

manhandled by the Broncos. Giants get the ball with about 4 minutes left in their territory

and he directs the team downfield for the winning touchdown.

This is when I knew we had THE quarterback.

 

During that same year, the Giants went punch for punch with the Seattle Seahawks in Seattle.

He threw a great pass to Amani Toomer and a even better one to Shockey for the two point conversion.

He then leads them down field for Jay Feely to miss a 40 yard field goal. In overtime he then leads the team

for TWO more drives and then Jay Feely spits the bit two more times.

This just re-affirmed that we had THE quarterback.

 

In 2006 against the Philadelphia Eagles the Giants were just getting brutally beaten by the Eagles,

and they even had 9 sacks on Manning and the Giants during the game. Eli Manning did not care for

the Eagles 9 sacks and utter domination for 55 minutes of the game. Eli Manning just leads the team

for the game tying field goal and in overtime throws a perfect pass to Plaxico Burress to win it.

Again, re-affirmed that we had him.

 

Lastly in 2005, the Giants played the San Diego Chargers, the team Manning had spurned in the 2004

draft. It was one of the most hostile crowds I'd ever seen on television...every play was just a chorus

of boos and it was one of the loudest crowds I'd ever heard too. You know what Manning does? You know what he does? He goes out their and throws for 352 yards and two touchdowns.

 

How many times has Manning brought the team back from the depths of hell and gave them new

life? How many? I can count at least 10 times where the defense or special teams shit the bed.

 

Don't give me this shit that Manning hasn't proved anything because that is horse shit. You don't

like Manning, quit being a fucking Giants fan then.

 

These were all great moments, but one that EVERYONE forgets is the game tying 4th quarter TD pass to Plaxico, in the rain, on the road against Philly in the playoffs. I still contend that had the Giants actually had a defense that would not allow a game winning, 6 minute drive(yes Philly milked the clock for 6 minutes to drive for a game winning FG) that this game would have been the game that everyone decided to leave him alone.

 

Really was a shame, but hey it was ELI Mannings fault. I heard that he told Carlos Emmons(again this is only rumor but some good sources have confirmed it)that if Carlos played the ENTIRE playoff game at LB and did not get his uniform dirty on a muddy day and play the whole game without registering one tackle he would give him 100 bucks. All of ELI's teammates said he was a dipshit for making that bet as the odds of a starting LB playing an entire game to do either of those things on a wet field was near impossible, but Carlos proved ELI right and maybe ELI's team did not win, but he was 100 dollars richer and his last pass of the year was a TD.

[Allstarjim]

Looked to me like he was running for his life all game. Perhaps one of you Eli judgers can give an example where a QB had a spectacular game without the help of his teammates and coaches.

 

Montana didn't do it/, Elway did it with legs sometimes but not often/, Steve Young same- / Favre- look how far he went on a bad team- everyone thought him to be washed up. Peyton is all about the system and so is Brady and so is Romo.

 

 

Um, it's a team sport. There is no great QB ever that did it by himself. Someone has to throw, someone has to catch, and others have to block. Still others need to play defense and give you the ball back. The argument here is that Eli has a good supporting cast, and is not getting it done. This team is a good team. Eli has a GREAT offensive line. People on this board don't give credit to the other team, I find it comical sometimes. It's like the Giants should be able to impose their will on everyone. That defense that the Cowboys have is very good, let's not forget. But our O-line should have at least 3 probowlers on it (McKenzie, Snee, and O'hara) and an emerging David Deihl who has been spectacular in his first year at LT. Eli has a great line, and very good receivers. Plax is a great receiver. He could go anywhere and put up double digit td, 1000+ yard seasons. Shockey is a very good TE. Jacobs is a great RB. Amani is... at this point in his career, a mediocre possession receiver (but still has great hands). The talent is there for Eli. It's up to him to bring it all together. Someone was comparing Peyton early in his career to Eli. Well, ever since Peyton started playing in the NFL, he has thrown at minimum 26 TDs. He has posted a 90+ QB rating every year but 3 times, one of those being his rookie year. The two other years he did not post at least a 90+ QB rating, he posted an 84.1 and 88.8 rating in 2001 and 2002, respectively. And he has thrown for over 4000 yards in every season he has been in the league but two. Eli has not made the jumps Peyton has. Eli has not posted at least even an 80+ QB rating yet in the league. He has thrown a max of 24 TDs in his short career (less than Peyton's minimum).

 

I bring this up because there is no comparison. Eli is a mediocre QB right now. I'll give him somewhat of a pass for last year after losing his starting LT in the Bears game and consequently not having good protection. But this year, he is without excuse. If he can't pull it together THIS YEAR, and at least show significant improvement over the last 7 games, I'm not sure he will ever be more than say a Dave Krieg or like someone else said, a Bernie Kosar.

 

On a side note, I don't understand why Sinorice Moss doesn't get more opportunities. When he gets the ball, I feel like he can take it all the way every time he touches it.

[Nas]

I can agree with almost everything said above except for "Plax is a great receiver". He's not.. far from it. He has height advantage but that's it. He hardly if ever makes the touch catches a "great" receiver is supposed to make. And he disappears in prime time.

 

He's no in the League for Randy and TO... not in the League of the Moss in DC. He's a mediocre WR who's handing of the ball will cost us dearly one day.

[Allstarjim]

I can agree with almost everything said above except for "Plax is a great receiver". He's not.. far from it. He has height advantage but that's it. He hardly if ever makes the touch catches a "great" receiver is supposed to make. And he disappears in prime time.

 

He's no in the League for Randy and TO... not in the League of the Moss in DC. He's a mediocre WR who's handing of the ball will cost us dearly one day.

 

I'm not sure what games you are watching. Moss in DC doesn't even have a TD this year! Santana moss has 24 catches for 297 yards this season, are you joking? Plaxico is having a pro bowl year on a bad ankle. Hello? No, he is not as good as TO. And he is not as physically gifted as Randy Moss (RM is a little faster). But I'd still take him over Moss because Moss has no heart and will give up on your team in a heartbeat. And Plaxico has as many TDs as Owens so far this year (8), which, by the way, leads the NFC, and is also the main objective of an offense (score TDs). He is doing this with an average QB and with his counterpart (Toomer) being past his prime making him the focus of the pass defense. And all this with a bad ankle. Plus, Plaxico has made some of the more spectacular catches I've seen in recent memory. He's made one-handed, leaping, diving catches that are sometimes otherworldly. I've seen these catches. So I really don't know what you're talking about when you say he doesn't make the tough catches. Plaxico has 5 drops on the year, certainly not a terrible number. You have bias that is affecting your judgement of his play.

 

If there's one gripe I have against Plaxico (and this is the only one) is that in the past he has held the ball carelessly away from his body while being tackled which has led to fumbles on occasion. I don't remember seeing him do that this year, though.

[Nas]

I'm not sure what games you are watching. Moss in DC doesn't even have a TD this year! Santana moss has 24 catches for 297 yards this season, are you joking? Plaxico is having a pro bowl year on a bad ankle. Hello? No, he is not as good as TO. And he is not as physically gifted as Randy Moss (RM is a little faster). But I'd still take him over Moss because Moss has no heart and will give up on your team in a heartbeat. And Plaxico has as many TDs as Owens so far this year (8), which, by the way, leads the NFC, and is also the main objective of an offense (score TDs). He is doing this with an average QB and with his counterpart (Toomer) being past his prime making him the focus of the pass defense. And all this with a bad ankle. Plus, Plaxico has made some of the more spectacular catches I've seen in recent memory. He's made one-handed, leaping, diving catches that are sometimes otherworldly. I've seen these catches. So I really don't know what you're talking about when you say he doesn't make the tough catches. Plaxico has 5 drops on the year, certainly not a terrible number. You have bias that is affecting your judgement of his play.

 

If there's one gripe I have against Plaxico (and this is the only one) is that in the past he has held the ball carelessly away from his body while being tackled which has led to fumbles on occasion. I don't remember seeing him do that this year, though.

 

I understand what you're saying. I'm still ticked off at his towel tackle against Dallas last year. I was especially ticked off when Eli couldn't find an open receiver this last game... the guy disappeared when he shoudl've shined most.

 

[fringe]

Um, it's a team sport. There is no great QB ever that did it by himself. Someone has to throw, someone has to catch, and others have to block. Still others need to play defense and give you the ball back. The argument here is that Eli has a good supporting cast, and is not getting it done. This team is a good team. Eli has a GREAT offensive line. People on this board don't give credit to the other team, I find it comical sometimes. It's like the Giants should be able to impose their will on everyone. That defense that the Cowboys have is very good, let's not forget. But our O-line should have at least 3 probowlers on it (McKenzie, Snee, and O'hara) and an emerging David Deihl who has been spectacular in his first year at LT. Eli has a great line, and very good receivers. Plax is a great receiver. He could go anywhere and put up double digit td, 1000+ yard seasons. Shockey is a very good TE. Jacobs is a great RB. Amani is... at this point in his career, a mediocre possession receiver (but still has great hands). The talent is there for Eli. It's up to him to bring it all together. Someone was comparing Peyton early in his career to Eli. Well, ever since Peyton started playing in the NFL, he has thrown at minimum 26 TDs. He has posted a 90+ QB rating every year but 3 times, one of those being his rookie year. The two other years he did not post at least a 90+ QB rating, he posted an 84.1 and 88.8 rating in 2001 and 2002, respectively. And he has thrown for over 4000 yards in every season he has been in the league but two. Eli has not made the jumps Peyton has. Eli has not posted at least even an 80+ QB rating yet in the league. He has thrown a max of 24 TDs in his short career (less than Peyton's minimum).

 

I bring this up because there is no comparison. Eli is a mediocre QB right now. I'll give him somewhat of a pass for last year after losing his starting LT in the Bears game and consequently not having good protection. But this year, he is without excuse. If he can't pull it together THIS YEAR, and at least show significant improvement over the last 7 games, I'm not sure he will ever be more than say a Dave Krieg or like someone else said, a Bernie Kosar.

 

On a side note, I don't understand why Sinorice Moss doesn't get more opportunities. When he gets the ball, I feel like he can take it all the way every time he touches it.

that last sentence is all i need to know about your ability to evaluate talent. thank god you're not a scout. for us.

[Nas]

that last sentence is all i need to know about your ability to evaluate talent. thank god you're not a scout. for us.

 

Actually Jim makes a great point. Why not give the guy more than one touch a game... and it's not like we're loaded with receivers. We didn't spend a 2nd round pick for the guy to sit on the bench...

 

And watch, if we trade him or we don't re-sign him, I can see him being a star on some other team.. the same way we let Tyrone Wheatly rot on the bench only to have his shot with the raiders.

 

How do you expect Moss to show his talents it if he's not on the field?

[boohyah]

that last sentence is all i need to know about your ability to evaluate talent. thank god you're not a scout. for us.

 

 

I've seen Sinorice Moss take it all the way....however it was Wednesday and he was on the field by himself.

 

He dived into the endzone also, very strange!

[fringe]

I've seen Sinorice Moss take it all the way....however it was Wednesday and he was on the field by himself.

 

He dived into the endzone also, very strange!

exactly, never seen a guy crumble from contact like him. he actually goes backwards when hit.

 

 

[Gspotter]

Actually Jim makes a great point. Why not give the guy more than one touch a game... and it's not like we're loaded with receivers. We didn't spend a 2nd round pick for the guy to sit on the bench...

 

And watch, if we trade him or we don't re-sign him, I can see him being a star on some other team.. the same way we let Tyrone Wheatly rot on the bench only to have his shot with the raiders.

 

How do you expect Moss to show his talents it if he's not on the field?

 

I couldn't agree more. I think we're really wasting away without cultivating talent. I'm sorry, call it the play calling, the position, etc., but Amani is not doing much anymore. We need more options.

[Nas]

I couldn't agree more. I think we're really wasting away without cultivating talent. I'm sorry, call it the play calling, the position, etc., but Amani is not doing much anymore. We need more options.

 

He doesn't even have to push Toomer out of the way. Who do we have in the 3rd WR spot?

 

And yes Toomer doesn't look good this year... maybe this is his last year (and he will leave as classy as they come.. unlike Ti...).

 

But for now, why not insert Moss in the 3rd wr spot and give the guy a chance to play... jeeez.