BlueInCanada Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Went from looking like a 12 year old to the terminator in an off season. Only added 8 pounds of muscle? Looks like he added 15 years and is ready to fuck up the NFL.
CrazedDogs Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 yeah, dude looks like he put on 25 pounds. he's a fucking tank now.
mastershake Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Great, he's going to need it behind this disastrous offensive line.
BlueInCanada Posted August 7, 2020 Author Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, mastershake said: Great, he's going to need it behind this disastrous offensive line. I think it's actually improved from last year. Thomas at LT. Hernandez at G. Hippo/Lemieux at center. Zeitler at G. Gates at RT. Honestly Gates played extremely well at RT in the later part of the season. The biggest question mark is center but Lemieux is the wild card and Pulley can even be a consideration there.
BlueInCanada Posted August 7, 2020 Author Posted August 7, 2020 Also soemthing to note is we have one of the best Online coaches in Colombo now on the team. Ever since Flaherty left the team all the Online coaches have been trash. I fully expect Hernandez to make a step forward under him.
mastershake Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said: I think it's actually improved from last year. Thomas at LT. Hernandez at G. Hippo/Lemieux at center. Zeitler at G. Gates at RT. Honestly Gates played extremely well at RT in the later part of the season. The biggest question mark is center but Lemieux is the wild card and Pulley can even be a consideration there. Improved how? Any rookie at LT will be going through some growing pains, we don't have a starting capable Center (or in your case, you have a rookie possibly starting), Hernandez is terrible, and Gates is okay. If Zeitler goes down with an injury again, this line falls apart. You need to prepare yourself for the fact that anyway you cut it, the line is going to be a disaster this season. Weak link.
BlueInCanada Posted August 7, 2020 Author Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, mastershake said: Improved how? Any rookie at LT will be going through some growing pains, we don't have a starting capable Center (or in your case, you have a rookie possibly starting), Hernandez is terrible, and Gates is okay. If Zeitler goes down with an injury again, this line falls apart. You need to prepare yourself for the fact that anyway you cut it, the line is going to be a disaster this season. Weak link. Thomas is an immediate upgrade over Solder and I don't see how you can say otherwise. Your hard on for the Hebandez hate is real but still he's not a lost cause by any means and now has one for the best Oline coaches to get him ready. Not to mention he's only in his third year. Rookie centers do well in the NFL and guess who the coach was he got many of them ready? You guessed it Colombo. Pulley also didn't do bad at center last year either. Zeitler is a stud and Gates can also fill in at guard. RT is the big question mark but like I said I think the plan is for Gates to start there. But your scenario of "if you lose a xyz player the unit falls apart" applies to many Olines in the NFL. The Oline is better and I think it will be, are we talking top 10 of the NFL? No way but it won't be bottom 25.
mastershake Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said: Thomas is an immediate upgrade over Solder and I don't see how you can say otherwise. Your hard on for the Hebandez hate is real but still he's not a lost cause by any means and now has one for the best Oline coaches to get him ready. Not to mention he's only in his third year. Rookie centers do well in the NFL and guess who the coach was he got many of them ready? You guessed it Colombo. Pulley also didn't do bad at center last year either. Zeitler is a stud and Gates can also fill in at guard. RT is the big question mark but like I said I think the plan is for Gates to start there. But your scenario of "if you lose a xyz player the unit falls apart" applies to many Olines in the NFL. The Oline is better and I think it will be, are we talking top 10 of the NFL? No way but it won't be bottom 25. A tree would be an upgrade over Solder. That's not saying much. Agree to disagree on the rest. This OL is going to be a weak link all 4 games of this season.
Sephiroth Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 I'm hearing Gates is in the mix at Center, but if I were the Giants I'd probably put him in the "first off the bench" role at Guard and Tackle like Kevin Boothe or David Diehl early in his career.
Nas Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 On 8/7/2020 at 3:21 PM, mastershake said: Improved how? Any rookie at LT will be going through some growing pains, we don't have a starting capable Center (or in your case, you have a rookie possibly starting), Hernandez is terrible, and Gates is okay. If Zeitler goes down with an injury again, this line falls apart. You need to prepare yourself for the fact that anyway you cut it, the line is going to be a disaster this season. Weak link. Still improved... You have to build your OL somehow... and the draft is how Dallas did it.. it does take a few years but at least we're now addressing it unlike years past.
mastershake Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Nas said: Still improved... You have to build your OL somehow... and the draft is how Dallas did it.. it does take a few years but at least we're now addressing it unlike years past. D vs the D- from last year. Yeah some improvement, lol. We do not have a competent, capable O-Line this year, and you'll see it show. Again, we have a rookie at LT, so there will be ups and downs and growing pains. Hernandez is a big wildcard, and was atrocious last year. He will have to make a big leap to be a starting capable G. We have unproven guys/backup caliber guys slated to start at C and RT. The only guy you can really rely on, when healthy, is Kevin Zeitler at RG...that's it. And if he goes down, the O-line is really fucked. If you're comfortable with the O-line that we have going into the season, then you're in for some major disappointment here. You should not feel comfortable, and you need to lower your expectations drastically.
Tempest Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 2 hours ago, mastershake said: D vs the D- from last year. Yeah some improvement, lol. We do not have a competent, capable O-Line this year, and you'll see it show. Again, we have a rookie at LT, so there will be ups and downs and growing pains. Hernandez is a big wildcard, and was atrocious last year. He will have to make a big leap to be a starting capable G. We have unproven guys/backup caliber guys slated to start at C and RT. The only guy you can really rely on, when healthy, is Kevin Zeitler at RG...that's it. And if he goes down, the O-line is really fucked. If you're comfortable with the O-line that we have going into the season, then you're in for some major disappointment here. You should not feel comfortable, and you need to lower your expectations drastically.
mastershake Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, Tempest said: Was the line not terrible last year?
Tempest Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 It was bad and yet I expect it to be better. Solder had a bad year and Halapio was exposed as a overachieving center who performed as badly as Solder which affected the play of Hernandez. You've pointed out Zeitler is the best of the bunch and I agree and now we have a new RT. I expect Thomas to start at LT and Gates to play RT, I think Spencer Pulley will start at Center which leaves us with an offensive line with inexperienced players at tackle and questionable talent at center. Where we do have experience in our Guards they are surrounded by question marks since Pulley is even less effective than Halapio. So really why do I expect it to get better considering everything I pointed out above? A different coaching staff and a fan's hope.
Sephiroth Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 6 hours ago, mastershake said: D vs the D- from last year. Yeah some improvement, lol. We do not have a competent, capable O-Line this year, and you'll see it show. Again, we have a rookie at LT, so there will be ups and downs and growing pains. Hernandez is a big wildcard, and was atrocious last year. He will have to make a big leap to be a starting capable G. We have unproven guys/backup caliber guys slated to start at C and RT. The only guy you can really rely on, when healthy, is Kevin Zeitler at RG...that's it. And if he goes down, the O-line is really fucked. If you're comfortable with the O-line that we have going into the season, then you're in for some major disappointment here. You should not feel comfortable, and you need to lower your expectations drastically. I'd say it's unproven, but maybe not worse. We just don't know what we have. Thomas may be a huge improvement over Solder and Gates may be much better than Remmers, but until probably next season we just won't know.
Iceman_NYG Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 What will really hurt the OL more than anything is the lack of practice reps and being game ready - more so than the personnel. That repeated practice that gels the line together is missing because of Covid and thats what will hurt this team more than anything. Hopefully as the season progresses they get better.
mastershake Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Sephiroth said: I'd say it's unproven, but maybe not worse. We just don't know what we have. Thomas may be a huge improvement over Solder and Gates may be much better than Remmers, but until probably next season we just won't know. Unproven is fair. Thomas, Hernandez, and Gates (who I like) all have potential upside, so if they step up quickly, it could be a solid line. Emphasis on the word 'if' though.
UK-Giantsfan Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 You have to believe that Marc Colombo and Jason Garrett can get this O line serviceable as well as any coaching duo in the NFL It might take a few weeks , but i expect heavy doses of Barkley for 2 yards gain on first down and second downs , followed by short passes to Engram and Shep. Maybe Danny Dimes can pick up a few yards himself without fumbling and lets hope that Saquon can break a few big ones all the way.
Sephiroth Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 8 hours ago, UK-Giantsfan said: You have to believe that Marc Colombo and Jason Garrett can get this O line serviceable as well as any coaching duo in the NFL It might take a few weeks , but i expect heavy doses of Barkley for 2 yards gain on first down and second downs , followed by short passes to Engram and Shep. Maybe Danny Dimes can pick up a few yards himself without fumbling and lets hope that Saquon can break a few big ones all the way. If we get "Saquon up the middle for 1" more than three times per game I'm going to lose my shit. Shurmur called that tired assed play a dozen times each week and it never worked. He's not an inside runner.
UK-Giantsfan Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Sephiroth said: If we get "Saquon up the middle for 1" more than three times per game I'm going to lose my shit. im afraid you are going to lose your shit Seph ........cause this will still happen quite a lot ( IMO ) ......lets hope he can get 3 not -1 this year
mastershake Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 Gallman is a much tougher interior runner, if he can stay healthy. Saquon is likely best with zone blacking schemes which create gaps/space and movement, and can allow him to explore those gaps. He's not going to be an Emmitt Smith (not that we even have that type of pro bowl line), Curtis Martin, Rodney Hampton, Frank Gore etc style grinder through the middle. I'm not saying don't give him interior runs, I'm just pointing out he's not this grinding style type for 20x+ runs per game. Probably needs a 50/50 split of outside, off tackle vs interior runs.
Nas Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Sephiroth said: If we get "Saquon up the middle for 1" more than three times per game I'm going to lose my shit. Shurmur called that tired assed play a dozen times each week and it never worked. He's not an inside runner. I think it had more to do with the OL than the RB... A runner is a runner... give him a lane and he'll get you more than 1 yard.
Sephiroth Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 Sounds like Gates is getting a hard look at Center. Would be great if he won the spot there with Phlegming at RT and Limeaux backing up the three inside spots. Have Peart backing up the two tackle spots and we might be a middling-to-good O-line this year.
BlueInCanada Posted August 15, 2020 Author Posted August 15, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 8:22 PM, Sephiroth said: If we get "Saquon up the middle for 1" more than three times per game I'm going to lose my shit. Shurmur called that tired assed play a dozen times each week and it never worked. He's not an inside runner. We'll I got some bad news for you. Garrett is a power scheme run coach. And that's great because Barkley is about as good as a between the tackle runner as anyone. Then again there's nothing he can't do as a runner. He's the complete package.
Iceman_NYG Posted August 17, 2020 Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/15/2020 at 5:51 PM, BlueInCanada said: We'll I got some bad news for you. Garrett is a power scheme run coach. And that's great because Barkley is about as good as a between the tackle runner as anyone. Then again there's nothing he can't do as a runner. He's the complete package. Exactly. He has fucking V-12 pistons on those legs and can run between, outside, open space, off tackle - anything...plus a dangerous threat from the backfield in the passing game. I want Garrett to get as creative as possible with Barkley - Barkley needs to be able to mask some of the OL deficiencies as well
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