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BlueInCanada

So I'm kinda thinking Jones will be starting by week 6 or 7.

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Its a shame DJ wont see the field anytime soon. Maybe Im jumping the gun here, but it seems to me, with zero pass rush combined with the inexperience in the back field, its hard to imagine they wont be picking in the top 5 come the next draft.

 

They should be letting him get his rookie mistakes over with now, in a rebuilding year. Why wait till next year when they might have a chance to have a winning season?

 

This is not to say that DJ gives them the best chance to win. Nor am I saying Eli cant play anymore. It would have been nice if the team as a whole was in a position to win more games then they are gonna lose. That Eli could ride off into the sunset with a chance to have a great season, or even walking away with another ring. Thats not gonna happen though. I say let DJ be tried by fire now, rather then later.

 

I know what you mean, but it's also the first game of the season. We have zero pass rush RIGHT NOW. We have a bad secondary RIGHT NOW.

 

The one thing I'll say about the secondary though... with guys running free like that, it seemed to be more of blown assignments and people not knowing where they're supposed to be. That seems fixable. I'm a little alarmed with Baker looking like he's a step behind and not getting his head around... but also, these guys are press corners that Bettcher was lining up 10-15 yards off the LOS. Hopefully Betch learns his players better and the players learn the scheme.

 

Also people keep complaining about the pass rush and they should... there was no pass rush. However, two years ago with JPP and Olivier Vernon eating up 1/3 of our cap space, there was also no pass rush. Most teams have no pass rush against that Dallas O-line... I wouldn't take too much out of that yet. If we're still complaining about the rush after week 4 or so I'll start to be alarmed, but Dallas isn't a good barometer of how much your team is going to pressure the QB.

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The Jags wouldn't trade for Eli simply because they are not a playoff team.

 

Foles was the bridge QB for the rebuild.

 

Eli isnt a bridge QB, he's a "we got one last shot" type of QB.

 

With all due respect to Eli, he's not the same Eli as the one who won the two SB for us... he's been a liability out there.

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Its a shame DJ wont see the field anytime soon. Maybe Im jumping the gun here, but it seems to me, with zero pass rush combined with the inexperience in the back field, its hard to imagine they wont be picking in the top 5 come the next draft.

 

They should be letting him get his rookie mistakes over with now, in a rebuilding year. Why wait till next year when they might have a chance to have a winning season?

 

This is not to say that DJ gives them the best chance to win. Nor am I saying Eli cant play anymore. It would have been nice if the team as a whole was in a position to win more games then they are gonna lose. That Eli could ride off into the sunset with a chance to have a great season, or even walking away with another ring. Thats not gonna happen though. I say let DJ be tried by fire now, rather then later.

 

I don't think they want him getting killed out there and shatter his confidence with rookie mistakes... he's not sitting on the bench picking his nose.. he's learning behind a veteran QB.

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I don't think they want him getting killed out there and shatter his confidence with rookie mistakes... he's not sitting on the bench picking his nose.. he's learning behind a veteran QB.

 

Also learning to perfect the patented "Opie Face," a must for any successful NY quarterback.

 

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I know what you mean, but it's also the first game of the season. We have zero pass rush RIGHT NOW. We have a bad secondary RIGHT NOW.

 

The one thing I'll say about the secondary though... with guys running free like that, it seemed to be more of blown assignments and people not knowing where they're supposed to be. That seems fixable. I'm a little alarmed with Baker looking like he's a step behind and not getting his head around... but also, these guys are press corners that Bettcher was lining up 10-15 yards off the LOS. Hopefully Betch learns his players better and the players learn the scheme.

 

Also people keep complaining about the pass rush and they should... there was no pass rush. However, two years ago with JPP and Olivier Vernon eating up 1/3 of our cap space, there was also no pass rush. Most teams have no pass rush against that Dallas O-line... I wouldn't take too much out of that yet. If we're still complaining about the rush after week 4 or so I'll start to be alarmed, but Dallas isn't a good barometer of how much your team is going to pressure the QB.

Yeah I feel ya. Part of me definitely feels like Im calling for this a little to early. If this still looks as bad as it does right now by week 5, there will be no doubt in my mind letting Danny dimes start will be the right thing to do.

 

I also agree the secondary was mostly about blown assignments. It was obviously so bad though, Im not sure how quickly it can be fixed. Baker did have a terrible game, but this kid only allowed one TD I believe His last year of collage. Im really starting to get concerned that Bettcher just doesnt know what he is doing. Same for Shurmur. The one thing I think we can take away here though, even if these kids had played well, without a pass rush, they were going to get eaten alive anyway. So Ill give them a pass for now.

 

About your last point, Im torn on that one. Id like to think they will find a way to get after the QB. But I have serious doubts we have the talent at DE for that to happen. That isnt just based on last week, but from knowing they did next to nothing to replace guys like Vernon, and JPP. Those guys had talent, and like you said they still werent getting it done. How is this group ever gonna get there?

 

Time will tell, but Im thinking DJ will or at least should be starting by mid season at least.

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I don't think they want him getting killed out there and shatter his confidence with rookie mistakes... he's not sitting on the bench picking his nose.. he's learning behind a veteran QB.

There is something to be said about letting a rookie QB spend his time learning his first year. With Jones though, from what we have seen so far (aside from the fumbles) I think he is ready to at least be a serviceable QB at this level. Heck its entirely possible he comes out swinging

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Yeah I feel ya. Part of me definitely feels like Im calling for this a little to early. If this still looks as bad as it does right now by week 5, there will be no doubt in my mind letting Danny dimes start will be the right thing to do.

 

I also agree the secondary was mostly about blown assignments. It was obviously so bad though, Im not sure how quickly it can be fixed. Baker did have a terrible game, but this kid only allowed one TD I believe His last year of collage. Im really starting to get concerned that Bettcher just doesnt know what he is doing. Same for Shurmur. The one thing I think we can take away here though, even if these kids had played well, without a pass rush, they were going to get eaten alive anyway. So Ill give them a pass for now.

 

About your last point, Im torn on that one. Id like to think they will find a way to get after the QB. But I have serious doubts we have the talent at DE for that to happen. That isnt just based on last week, but from knowing they did next to nothing to replace guys like Vernon, and JPP. Those guys had talent, and like you said they still werent getting it done. How is this group ever gonna get there?

 

Time will tell, but Im thinking DJ will or at least should be starting by mid season at least.

 

 

i think Shurmur has done a good job of correcting the culture here. He's also a lot more animated and seems to stick it to the media much better than I thought he would.

 

I have definitely reservations about Shurmur's playcalling. There is literally no reason why Barkley only got 11 touches in a game where he was averaging 10 yards per carry. This isn't the first time he's done some things that make me question his playcalling either. Also, Mike Shula is not a good coordinator and never has been IMO.

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i think Shurmur has done a good job of correcting the culture here. He's also a lot more animated and seems to stick it to the media much better than I thought he would.

 

I have definitely reservations about Shurmur's playcalling. There is literally no reason why Barkley only got 11 touches in a game where he was averaging 10 yards per carry. This isn't the first time he's done some things that make me question his playcalling either. Also, Mike Shula is not a good coordinator and never has been IMO.

Absolutely. I will say Shurmur is a really good players coach, and like you said he has the ship pointed in the right direction as far as culture as well.

 

It's the play calling. Like WTH?? He has had me scratching my head quite a few times. Barkley should get more touches then the average back in the league. How it is he got about half those is just mind boggling. If I didnt know better Id say there was something wrong with Barkley that they are not sharing with us.

 

He needs a good coordinator. I agree Shula sucks too, but honestly Id rather Shula call the plays over Shurmur from what we have seen. I have to imagine Shula at least understands they have a all star running back.

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I think the culture will change when the team begins to win consistently. Right now it is just a roster full of players who aren't making noise off the field.

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This team is going nowhere this season, with this defense. Jones after the bye week. Gotta start prepping for the future and get him some good experience.

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They really need to look at the possibility of starting Jones after week three (if they lose) or four.

 

I mean starting Eli every week is saying "We are a team that is going to the playoffs" but the reality is, it's more than likely not happening.

 

This team is rebuilding at every position besides running back.

 

Secondary - aged Vets, underachieving first round pick and rookies.

 

Linebackers - made up of serviceable no bodies with some bright spots, but needs an overhaul.

Defensive line - full of rookies and one year contract players, trying to find someone to rush the passer and step up.

 

Receivers - an aged vet who's gone after next year, a WR who's not living up to his contract thus far, and a bunch of no bodies.

 

So why are we hanging onto the QB of the past when this team isnt there?

 

The more I look at it, the more I think it's time to just cut your losses and either bench/cut/trade Eli.

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I'm gonna wait till a greater than two game sample size to make judgements about the team.

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I'm gonna wait till a greater than two game sample size to make judgements about the team.

 

But we know what we have in Eli.

 

We don't know what we have in Jones.

 

Why not see in a losing season what they have in Jones?

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But we know what we have in Eli.

 

We don't know what we have in Jones.

 

Why not see in a losing season what they have in Jones?

Because it's not a losing season yet.

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I'm gonna wait till a greater than two game sample size to make judgements about the team.

That is usually wise.

 

But if you aren't seeing promise by the end of game three, I think you can safely say the season is shot to shit.

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Ok in 7 days it will be a losing season.

 

Sorry.

When we have lost 9 games it will be a losing season.

 

As I said in another thread, if Eli starts playing terribly for 3-4 weeks in a row the team should start making a switch. He has not started playing terribly yet.

 

What often gets overlooked in the "switch to Daniel Jones" discussion is that most of the players on the team are competitors that want their greatest chance to win. Daniel Jones does not give them that right now. Most of these guys would rather go 6-10 than 3-13. We as fans might want it the other way around, but for a coach to bail on the season after two weeks is a slap in the face to these kids who sacrifice their bodies and work their asses off each day. THAT is the way to lose the locker room.

 

When the season is over,we can start to think about next season. Right now the team needs to focus on this season. Giving up right now is a losers mentality.

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When we have lost 9 games it will be a losing season.

 

As I said in another thread, if Eli starts playing terribly for 3-4 weeks in a row the team should start making a switch. He has not started playing terribly yet.

 

What often gets overlooked in the "switch to Daniel Jones" discussion is that most of the players on the team are competitors that want their greatest chance to win. Daniel Jones does not give them that right now. Most of these guys would rather go 6-10 than 3-13. We as fans might want it the other way around, but for a coach to bail on the season after two weeks is a slap in the face to these kids who sacrifice their bodies and work their asses off each day. THAT is the way to lose the locker room.

 

When the season is over,we can start to think about next season. Right now the team needs to focus on this season. Giving up right now is a losers mentality.

 

Losing games loses the locker room.

 

The Giants have won games since 2011, outside of one fluke year.

 

You act as if the Giants have had a history of winning the last 10 years.

 

They don't.

 

What does Eli give this team a chance to win that Jones doesnt? What does it show a team that the QB of a losing team 5 of the last 7 seasons while other players like OBJ/Collins/whoever get shipped out for "cultural reasons"?

 

People just want something different instead of the same thing these past 7 years of irrevelance in the NFL.

 

Atleast with Jones you know he's getting experience and seeing what you have.

 

Eli you're just watching the corpse of the old Giants trot out there week after week with the same result.

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Eli gives the team the best chance to win right now... not a rookie QB that had a really good preseason playing against other teams' #2s. It's really ironic that people are clamoring for Daniel Jones when four months ago the same people were lamenting that we had selected him.

 

You ask what Eli gives the team that Jones doesn't? Experience. If you think things are bad now, wait until we have a QB in there who's fumbling twice a game and throwing three picks. That's not a knock on Jones... that's just what rookie QBs do.

 

Put him in when all is lost. Otherwise you try to win, period... not bail after two games.

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Eli gives the team the best chance to win right now... not a rookie QB that had a really good preseason playing against other teams' #2s. It's really ironic that people are clamoring for Daniel Jones when four months ago the same people were lamenting that we had selected him.

 

You ask what Eli gives the team that Jones doesn't? Experience. If you think things are bad now, wait until we have a QB in there who's fumbling twice a game and throwing three picks. That's not a knock on Jones... that's just what rookie QBs do.

 

Put him in when all is lost. Otherwise you try to win, period... not bail after two games.

 

How so?

 

Since the Superbowl the Giants have had a losing record something like 45 to 68.

 

Eli isnt a winning QB anymore, he's a game manager, he doesnt elevate this team nor does he do anything on Sundays to win games, or you know the Giants would be winning.

 

What more damage could the Giants do this year by starting Jones?

 

They were never going to compete just hopefully develop in some areas, what good does just doing the same thing the last five years (31 - 49 record) when you've traded away/cut the majority of talent and are playing guys you signed off the street days ago?

 

Oh right right, a better chance at "winning and being competitive" like we've seen them be the last few seasons.

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I think this team has no chance of going anywhere. Might as well start Jones and begin the transition for the future.

 

And it's not even so much just benching Eli and seeing Jones.

 

I just want this team to DO SOMETHING other than fucking lose like they have been.

 

Christ the Giants have been the bottom cellar of the NFC East for 5 of the last 6 seasons.

 

Atleast give me a reason to tune into games other than hoping we destroy teams picking in the top 5 like the Giants, and losing by the second quarter to any team with talent on it.

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While Eli is part of the problem, I dont think Jones will have any more success at this point...

 

The glaring problem is we have no fucking defense....

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You want to put DJ in throwing to Jones and Cody and fucks off the street who are running routes like headless chickens? If there is anyone right now who can make plays with those shit WRs, its Eli - not Jones. Eli hasnt been playing like shit - he's doing the best he can and in that long throw INT today it was a good throw the WR just didnt make it and at one point looked like he had given up on the play. This is the diff in having a OBJ vs a TJ. No Shepard, No Tate - what do you expect. Im with Seph - until we lose 9 games and are out of play off contention, Eli starts. Once we are out of playoff contention, start DJ and let him learn. Lets see what we can do against Tampa. Im not mailing it in yet.

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