What do you call a QB

[GA4M]

His accuracy is off, even by Eli's inconsistent standards. The sideline touch-pass used to be his bread and butter but most of those are going uncatchable (even by Beckham) out of bounds. The Nicks non-TD pass, overthrowing a wide open Beckham in OT, on and on. In the close margins we've lost all but one game by this season, these throws are the difference between winning an losing, and they're supposed to be the difference between average and 'elite'.

I've been saying that for weeks now, but the line is pretty lame right now and they keep running the clock down to zero and give the defense a really good idea of when the ball will be snapped.

[Blindgreed1]

 

Those teams have defenses at least.

 

 

And a running game

Neither of which relate to Nas's defense of Eli only having one pro bowl receiver.

[Mr. P]

 

 

Neither of which relate to Nas's defense of Eli only having one pro bowl receiver.

 

I'm just speaking to the teams overall success.

[Blindgreed1]

 

I'm speaking to the teams overall success.

I thought this thread was about your QB?

[Mr. P]

I thought this thread was about your QB?

 

Rules? I thought this was rock and roll.

[fringe]

 

 

Neither of which relate to Nas's defense of Eli only having one pro bowl receiver.

Who's Nas?

[osi724dasack]

Eli's been off the past 2 weeks but damn Jim you've really jumped the shark man. Throw back a few shots/beers and take a walk and buy a pack of cigarettes and smoke them all, then go back to living your life. It might help.

 

 

My point is, Eli is great and you know this Jim.

[Storm]

And a running game

 

The Cards have Andre Ellington. And Cam makes his own running game good. The scheme dictates that Cam is the most important player in their running game.

 

Aaron Rodgers hasn't needed receivers, consistent running backs, tight ends, or an offensive line.

 

The fact is, Eli Manning is one Odell Beckham away from mediocrity. He does not make the players around him better. Other quarterbacks do that.

[osi724dasack]

The Cards have Andre Ellington. And Cam makes his own running game good. The scheme dictates that Cam is the most important player in their running game.

 

Aaron Rodgers hasn't needed receivers, consistent running backs, tight ends, or an offensive line.

 

The fact is, Eli Manning is one Odell Beckham away from mediocrity. He does not make the players around him better. Other quarterbacks do that.

 

I think Eli definitely makes players around him better.

 

Steve Smith earned a contract because of Eli, Cruz became a superstar working with Eli in Hoboken on off days in the offseason catching passes in March. ODB wouldn't be ODB with Jay Cutler throwing him passes imo.

 

Eli made Jake Ballard look like Bavaro! He got Bennett paid.

 

I'm gonna just not aknowledge all the Eli knocks right now, he's the best damn QB this team has ever had. Smdh. This is the NFL.

 

Eli, his draft class of QBs, and Brady, Brees, Cam, and debatably another 3-4 guys are the only Qbs worth a shit.

 

Eli is Elite. End of story.

 

 

What would Brady, Brees or Rodgers do in our offense playing in our market? They'd fucking get hurt and be out for the year LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING PLAYER ON THIS FUCKING TEAM! Eli plays thru it all, good and bad, takes all the shit from fans and media after 2 SB mvps and so many good games and he answers all the questions and says all the things and never bitches.

 

We will be lucky In our lifetimes to see a better Giants QB then Eli Nelson Manning.

[osi724dasack]

Only a few QBs (3 maybe 4) who could succeed the way Eli has during his career in Ny/Nj

 

 

Ernie Accorsi will forever be the best Giants Gm ever.

 

Reese right behind him. Reese and Coughlin also get wayy to much crap, especially Coughlin. Reese gets a pass however still, that's theg way it is with Gms

[Allstarjim]

Eli's been off the past 2 weeks but damn Jim you've really jumped the shark man. Throw back a few shots/beers and take a walk and buy a pack of cigarettes and smoke them all, then go back to living your life. It might help.

 

 

My point is, Eli is great and you know this Jim.

He used to be great. Drizzle hit the nail on the head. Except I believe he can recapture that. I don't know how, though. Maybe he needs to see a sports psychologist or something, but he has lost his edge, he has lost the "it" factor that Accorsi talked about with him.

 

Honestly if Eli was truly elite the team would be no worse than 7-5 now, at the worst. Look at this shit show of a division. They have 3 division losses against 2 wins in this division. Moreover, there is enough of a roster, despite its shortcomings, for the Giants to be winning this division. The point is that the offense has let this team down in nearly almost all of these losses, just think about them all individually. Shit look at the game thread archives... They were in position to win with the offense having the ball, and they didn't get it done time and time again and the team is 5-7 now. No excuses. This lands largely at the feet of Eli.

[osi724dasack]

He used to be great. Drizzle hit the nail on the head. Except I believe he can recapture that. I don't know how, though. Maybe he needs to see a sports psychologist or something, but he has lost his edge, he has lost the "it" factor that Accorsi talked about with him.

Honestly if Eli was truly elite the team would be no worse than 7-5 now, at the worst. Look at this shit show of a division. They have 3 division losses against 2 wins in this division. Moreover, there is enough of a roster, despite its shortcomings, for the Giants to be winning this division. The point is that the offense has let this team down in nearly almost all of these losses, just think about them all individually. Shit look at the game thread archives... They were in position to win with the offense having the ball, and they didn't get it done time and time again and the team is 5-7 now. No excuses. This lands largely at the feet of Eli.

The last 2 weeks Eli has sucked yes. But overall i disagree.

 

Glad to know that you think he can recapture it "it" factor, I don't think he's lost it I just think he might be dinged and just doesn't trust anyone besides ODB. I mean he's not getting much time to throw and the past few weeks has gotten hit a lot.

 

Look, this season if games ended at 90 seconds we would be 9-3.

 

It's insane and very frustrating and Eli deserves some blame, but all these meltdowns have Ultimately fallen on the defense just as much as the offense at the end of the day.

 

It's not like Eli is even throwing a ton of picks.

 

The past 2 weeks his accuracy has been off and he's looked a little off I guess. But I'm not worried and I don't think he's past his prime. I think his prime will be next season if ODB stays healthy.

[Storm]

Steve Smith earned a contract because he was sure handed and could find soft spots in zones and move chains, Osi. Something that ELI needs, right now, more than anyone like Steve Smith would need Eli.

 

A chain mover is exactly what Eli needs which had me shaking my head when they brought back Hakeem. Welker at least filled a role that is needed on this team, though probably wouldn't have been effectively.

 

It really boggles my mind how long some of you can hold onto 2007 and 2011, I guess Super Bowls do that to you.

 

Eli WAS all those things. Right now he's a pedestrian QB who has done nothing to help his team come out of games with wins. He has made mistakes that lose games.

 

And Rodgers offense and the injuries he's had to deal with destroy the Giants injuries. He wins games, though.

[osi724dasack]

Steve Smith earned a contract because he was sure handed and could find soft spots in zones and move chains, Osi. Something that ELI needs, right now, more than anyone like Steve Smith would need Eli.

A chain mover is exactly what Eli needs which had me shaking my head when they brought back Hakeem. Welker at least filled a role that is needed on this team, though probably wouldn't have been effectively.

I agree man, it's pathetic. We have a guy like Odell and we can't close out these games! I'm officially FUCKING SICK OF REUBEN FUCKING PUSSY ASS RANDLE! Guy is a total fucking loser ass scrub who just complained to the media about his role.

 

Let's keep Odell healthy, draft a WR, sign a fuckin wr (maybe Jeffrey) and see if cruz can mix in as well and give it another shot next yeAR.

 

RANDLE JUST HASNT PROGRESSED AND LOOKS LIKE SHIT, HES THE NUMBER 2 and he plays like the number 4-5. It's fucking pathetic especially when ODB is drawing triple coverage on the opposite side of the field on a regular basis

[Storm]

And it's not about throwing picks (which he has 4 in 2 games, mind you). It's about not scoring points and throwing away opportunities to increase the chances of winning by not being able to sustain drives, going three and out in key situations, and generally making questionable decisions and reads in crucial situations.

 

I can't remember the last time we've had an opening drive touchdown...Philly, maybe? The majority of our points seem to come in the second quarter and then a huge drop off and we go into conservative mode.

[RandolphScott]

The whole goddamn team lost the "it" factor in 2012. The writing was on the wall the 2nd half of that season when the Bengals, Ravens and Falcons kicked the shit out of us. The worst thing that could have happened was that stupid Superbowl clock in 2013 with a rotten, aging core on the offensive line and defensive lines, no linebackers, no running backs and a shitty secondary.

 

It's really amazing the Giants didn't finish 2-14 that year because that whole team was BAD.

[fringe]

 

The Cards have Andre Ellington. And Cam makes his own running game good. The scheme dictates that Cam is the most important player in their running game.

 

Aaron Rodgers hasn't needed receivers, consistent running backs, tight ends, or an offensive line.

 

The fact is, Eli Manning is one Odell Beckham away from mediocrity. He does not make the players around him better. Other quarterbacks do that.

Chris Johnson had 900 yes and the Cards have someone with 850. You try to reduce the impact of that but it's major.

[Storm]

Chris Johnson had 900 yes and the Cards have someone with 850. You try to reduce the impact of that but it's major.

 

 

I assume that the shotgun draw is not the sole extent of their running game, though.

[CrazedDogs]

I don't really see that as much of a defense Nas. QB's make pro bowl receivers. Not the other way around. Look at what Palmer is doing in Arizona. Besides Fitzgerald, they really don't have any big name receivers. Same can be said for Cam in Carolina. He has Olsen and Ginn Jr?

 

Cam's passing numbers aren't that good.

 

And Arizona has a very good group of receivers.

[CrazedDogs]

 

The Cards have Andre Ellington. And Cam makes his own running game good. The scheme dictates that Cam is the most important player in their running game.

 

Aaron Rodgers hasn't needed receivers, consistent running backs, tight ends, or an offensive line.

 

The fact is, Eli Manning is one Odell Beckham away from mediocrity. He does not make the players around him better. Other quarterbacks do that.

 

Uh, you seen Aaron Rodgers play the last several weeks, this season in general? Their receivers aren't what they used to be, and it appears.... not the case, but it appears that Rodgers is not playing as well as he used to. But to my eyes, he is... the difference is the receivers.

[CrazedDogs]

you know, Eli may not be the best QB the NFL has ever seen.... but he's just about the least of the problems with this team.

 

No starting runningback.... an offensive line still searching for solutions, and now banged up beyond all solutions.... no tight ends..... arguably the best WR in the league, but nothing else behind him.... come on gentlemen.... this is not an offense that anybody is scared of, it doesn't matter who the QB is.

 

I can see getting on Coughlin for some clock management choices.... I can see getting on Reece for the personal decisions that left the cupboard bare.... but getting on Eli because not every pass was on the mark? Thats ridiculous. Its an impossible standard to meet.

[Gman329]

Guys, even by this board's standards, this is a ridiculous discussion. Eli is the last thing you should be worried about on this team! 62% completion rate, on his way to 4,000 yards for the year and currently has 24 TD's to 10 Int's. Considering the OL has been in tatters, so no running game and little time to throw and only one receiver for the opposing D to worry about, that's pretty damn good. Talent and continuity around a QB matters and Eli has had neither. I would argue that Eli IS making the players around him better - or at least camouflaging their deficiencies - by reading the D, knowing where the rushers are coming from and calling up the easiest blocking assignments for the OL before each play (an often overlooked QB talent) and then getting the ball out of his hands quickly, usually before he wants to, so timing with receivers is compromised. Still, ask Will Tye if Eli hasn't made him a better player.

 

Even Aaron Rodgers, who I think is the best hands down these days, has struggled and looked human when he's had similar injury/continuity challenges this year. And did anybody happen to see the great Tom Brady against Philly on Sunday, with his new receivers?

 

I worry about the OL (again!!!), DL (gotta get a pass rush!), LBs (quick, name one!), more depth at CB (a 3rd CB for the slot receiver... plus, Prince or DRC goes out and we're in trouble), a safety or two (praying that Collins just needs time and that he's not a bust, because he's been lost), a WR or two to take the heat off Odell, a TE (maybe Tye? Maybe?) and a real #1 RB. After that, I'll "worry" about Eli.

[gmenroc]

The clock management is as much on Eli as it is Coughlin. The accuracy is on Eli. The spiking the ball when taking a sack was a better option is on Eli.

 

There is plenty of blame this season to go around.

 

But since we're discussing Eli, I'll make the point I've made quite a bit here at SW. The fact that we're even having the discussion over whether or not he's elite, proves he isn't. Nobody questions the genius of Peyton Manning, the efficiency of Tom Brady, and how Rodgers plays. There is literally no questioning how good those guys are. With Eli, there is a lot of questioning. At the moment where you're just ready to deem him a top 10 or top 5 QB in the league, he comes up with some boneheaded play or inexcusable decision that proves otherwise. It's the inconsistency that generates the debate. It's many of the minute details that are givens for the elite that Eli seems to gloss over.

 

I can't imagine what it takes to handle the job of a starting NFL QB. I couldn't do it, and it's not just the physical side of it. It's the processing of information, the quick decision making, etc. But when you look at guys like Brady or Peyton Manning, even a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers...you just don't see those little decisions changing the outcomes of games. Now granted, I'm not watching those teams like I watch the Giants...so there is that, but at the same time, Eli's effectiveness just doesn't seem to be there. This year has definitely been a regression for the offense. And while you can't pin it all on Eli, he touches the ball on every offensive play. He has more on field responsibility than any other player. You can't absolve him of the blame.

 

But, he's signed through 2020 and moving on from him is not going to happen any time soon. If we miss the playoffs, I have to believe a coaching change will be made. If McAdoo is not kept on, that means a new system to learn and that likely stunts success for another year.

 

Wow, that's quite a ramble if there ever was one...but the point remains, at best, Eli is on the low end of the top tier QBs. At worst, he is very much middle of the pack. I grade him outside the top 10 league-wide, but above the lower 16.

[Gman329]

I agree he's not Brady, Peyton or Aaron Rodgers - those guys are all time greats - but how many of the other QBs outside of the top 10 can you win a Super Bowl with - twice? And he was MVP both times, to boot!

[Blindgreed1]

 

The Cards have Andre Ellington. And Cam makes his own running game good. The scheme dictates that Cam is the most important player in their running game.

 

Aaron Rodgers hasn't needed receivers, consistent running backs, tight ends, or an offensive line.

 

The fact is, Eli Manning is one Odell Beckham away from mediocrity. He does not make the players around him better. Other quarterbacks do that.

My point exactly.