What do you call a QB

[GA4M]

That is every team in the league, though.

Aren't we at the top of the chart when it comes to it though?

[osi724dasack]

Nassib is not the answer.

 

If the Giants get mathematically eliminated from postseason I would consider sitting Eli a 2nd half blowout Andy trying to boost any trade value he may have.

[Allstarjim]

I understand a lot of you guys want to turn a blind eye to what is happening based on past accomplishments/level of play.

 

But what you can't deny is that there are a group of QBs that make Eli money that consistently win, despite all the same problems you guys are allowing to be excuses for Eli's POOR decision-making and less than stellar play.

 

ELI hasn't been very accurate this year and especially hasn't thrown the deep ball well at all. ELI is constantly making bad decisions with clock management that has cost the Giants dearly several times. ELI HASN'T stepped up and made the big plays he used to make in critical spots.

 

I could go on and on. Eli THIS year and in recent seasons hasn't been playing winning football. And my comment about Nassib was not that he necessarily could, but if this is what we are getting from Eli, then at some point you have to find out if the other guy can do the job. And if you've watched the other guy at all, he has impressed, made accurate throws, moved the ball, and to me, he's shown more fire than from what we've seen from Eli.

 

My point is, you cannot continue to simply accept medocrity season after season and expect things to get better. And you certainly can't continue to pay $20 million per season plus for mediocrity. And all you guys talking about defense and injuries being the problem are making my point for me. Other QB's, paid like Eli, win in spite of those problems. Eli can win if he has at least two superb receivers, a good running game, a very strong offensive line, and a dominant defense. Now tell me what starting QB in the NFL couldn't win with that? Moreover, tell me how we pay for all that when a big chunk of the cap is eaten by the QB position?

 

As soon as Eli doesn't have all those things, you guys say it's those deficiencies that cause us not to win. I expect my franchise QB to win when he doesn't have all that and you should, too. At least get into the playoffs. And this year of all years, you can't be 5-7 at this juncture. This season has tarnished Eli's legacy and rightfully so, if it wasn't already tarnished over the past few years.

 

Call me JackStroud-esque if you wish, but this is the truth if you really think about it.

[GA4M]

Whoa, show that to the wife Crazed!!!

[Mr. P]

I understand a lot of you guys want to turn a blind eye to what is happening based on past accomplishments/level of play.

 

But what you can't deny is that there are a group of QBs that make Eli money that consistently win, despite all the same problems you guys are allowing to be excuses for Eli's POOR decision-making and less than stellar play.

 

ELI hasn't been very accurate this year and especially hasn't thrown the deep ball well at all. ELI is constantly making bad decisions with clock management that has cost the Giants dearly several times. ELI HASN'T stepped up and made the big plays he used to make in critical spots.

 

I could go on and on. Eli THIS year and in recent seasons hasn't been playing winning football. And my comment about Nassib was not that he necessarily could, but if this is what we are getting from Eli, then at some point you have to find out if the other guy can do the job. And if you've watched the other guy at all, he has impressed, made accurate throws, moved the ball, and to me, he's shown more fire than from what we've seen from Eli.

 

My point is, you cannot continue to simply accept medocrity season after season and expect things to get better. And you certainly can't continue to pay $20 million per season plus for mediocrity. And all you guys talking about defense and injuries being the problem are making my point for me. Other QB's, paid like Eli, win in spite of those problems. Eli can win if he has at least two superb receivers, a good running game, a very strong offensive line, and a dominant defense. Now tell me what starting QB in the NFL couldn't win with that? Moreover, tell me how we pay for all that when a big chunk of the cap is eaten by the QB position?

 

As soon as Eli doesn't have all those things, you guys say it's those deficiencies that cause us not to win. I expect my franchise QB to win when he doesn't have all that and you should, too. At least get into the playoffs. And this year of all years, you can't be 5-7 at this juncture. This season has tarnished Eli's legacy and rightfully so, if it wasn't already tarnished over the past few years.

 

Call me JackStroud-esque if you wish, but this is the truth if you really think about it.

 

 

If you're looking at total guaranteed money, there are guys getting more than Eli that I wouldn't want over him.

 

Romo, Rivers, Ryan, Cutler, Bradford all are on deals getting more guaranteed money.

 

and Stafford is averaging more guaranteed per year than Eli. I prefer Eli.

[Allstarjim]

I'm not sure saying we aren't as bad as these other guys makes a case against what I'm tryimg to say... Which is 5 years of mediocrity, is Eli part of the problem or the solution? This year he clearly has been part of yhe problem. Those other teams shouldn't accept mediocrity either, and with some exceptions, I agree with your opinion regarding Eli's relative place among those QBs. But Romo, when healthy, has that team competing, at least. He's played better, again, when healthy (and Eli's durability is a check mark in his favor) than Eli. I think Rivers is at least as good as Eli, has played in a tough division and never has had the team health or depth to go very far, but I have the same questions about him as I do Eli. But I can't say for certain Eli is better than him. I do believe he is clearly better than Ryan, Cutler, Stafford and Bradford. Being better than other teams' mistakes isn't quite the bar I'd like our team to reach for, though

[Herc]

Jj Nelson is totally breaking out right now. The cards are four deep as far as legit good wide receivers go. David Johnson has looked like a star in limited opportunities all year and now he's getting his chance with cj hurt. They have 7 legit weapons at wr and rb alone

[Mr. P]

I'm not sure saying we aren't as bad as these other guys makes a case against what I'm tryimg to say... Which is 5 years of mediocrity, is Eli part of the problem or the solution? This year he clearly has been part of yhe problem. Those other teams shouldn't accept mediocrity either, and with some exceptions, I agree with your opinion regarding Eli's relative place among those QBs. But Romo, when healthy, has that team competing, at least. He's played better, again, when healthy (and Eli's durability is a check mark in his favor) than Eli. I think Rivers is at least as good as Eli, has played in a tough division and never has had the team health or depth to go very far, but I have the same questions about him as I do Eli. But I can't say for certain Eli is better than him. I do believe he is clearly better than Ryan, Cutler, Stafford and Bradford. Being better than other teams' mistakes isn't quite the bar I'd like our team to reach for, though

 

 

I'm just saying those are guys that make Eli money or more, and I'd personally take Eli over them.

[fringe]

 

Jim, I very much enjoyed meeting and having a beer with you and your family and friends before the Tampa bay game. You're a helluva nice guy and I hope we can do it again......but this might be the all time most ridiculous statement ever written on this board!

Unfortunately, not even close! Of the QB's playing now (the guy with the clipboard is always the most popular guy with the fans) I rank Eli around 11 or 12. Mediocre would be 16-20. Again, this is a non-issue for the team. There is no one to replace him nor should he be replaced.

[Blindgreed1]

 

John Brown and Michael Floyd. Both excellent young WRs (if they can stay healthy).

Before this season were they on your radar AT ALL? Probably not, which goes back to what I said. The QB makes a pro bowl receiver. NOT the other way around.

[Nas]

I've at times loathed what Eli is making compared to his production... only because his salary is keeping the team from signing other talent... And I think just because there's demand for QBs out there, this somehow means we have to overpay for what we have... Look... as fans we all have a soft spot for Eli... and those 2 rings.. but damn it... there have been a lot more heart break and a lot more head scratchers... It's true that we haven't been able to shore up the OL.. or keep a good TE (like the Unicorn) or sign one... or sign a good DL... etc.. and that goes to Eli's salary eating up all that room the team needs. Oddly enough when I vented I was criticized for not appreciating Eli...

 

And I happened to think Nassib can do very well on this team... growing pains and all.

[GA4M]

This debate could go on forever.

[Treehugger]

Before this season were they on your radar AT ALL? Probably not, which goes back to what I said. The QB makes a pro bowl receiver. NOT the other way around.

 

Yes, I drafted Brown.

[BlueInCanada]

This debate could go on forever.

 

Basically has the moment that Eli played his first snap.

 

I don't think Eli is "elite" but then again in my opinion there have only been a handful of elite QBs in the league in every era of football. Granted being elite usually means you are on a team that helps you play to that level, but I reserve elite for those few QBs that end up elevating their team the moment they basically step on the field to the moment they step off of it.

 

Eli is a lot better than what some people here think of him and he's a worse than what others think of him. I think he's a good and even great QB, upper shelf of the current QBs playing the game, nothing more, nothing less. He can win games in the clutch that most QBs in the NFL would just crumble, but he isnt immune to the same old mistakes that every QB makes.

 

I think that's a key difference between what people call "elite" and good, the good QBs can play at any level and gives their team a chance to win, but will still be prone to mistakes, bad games, cold streaks, bone headed moves, etc.

 

Elite QBs will rise to and surpass any occasion and will be able to outplay their mistakes game in and game out, while being able to lead the team to do the same.

[GA4M]

 

Basically has the moment that Eli played his first snap.

 

I don't think Eli is "elite" but then again in my opinion there have only been a handful of elite QBs in the league in every era of football. Granted being elite usually means you are on a team that helps you play to that level, but I reserve elite for those few QBs that end up elevating their team the moment they basically step on the field to the moment they step off of it.

 

Eli is a lot better than what some people here think of him and he's a worse than what others think of him. I think he's a good and even great QB, upper shelf of the current QBs playing the game, nothing more, nothing less. He can win games in the clutch that most QBs in the NFL would just crumble, but he isnt immune to the same old mistakes that every QB makes.

 

I think that's a key difference between what people call "elite" and good, the good QBs can play up to any level and gives their team a chance to win, but will still be prone to mistakes and bad games.

 

Elite QBs will rise to any occasion and will be able to outplay their mistakes game in and game out, while being able to inspire the team to do the same.

I get frustrated with him sometimes like everyone, but the running game is horrible, OBJ is all alone other than Harris and the defense is, well....you know. Eli will be good enough to win if they can do something about the other problems.

[Blindgreed1]

 

Yes, I drafted Brown.

Then you're a freak. Without the QB a great receiver isn't great. There are too many examples to name them all. Surrounding a QB with pro bowl receivers doesn't make a good QB.

[Treehugger]

Then you're a freak. Without the QB a great receiver isn't great. There are too many examples to name them all. Surrounding a QB with pro bowl receivers doesn't make a good QB.

 

Hopkins comes to mind.

[Storm]

I get frustrated with him sometimes like everyone, but the running game is horrible, OBJ is all alone other than Harris and the defense is, well....you know. Eli will be good enough to win if they can do something about the other problems.

 

But, he has legitimate outlets that go ignored for entire halves and sometimes even entire games while he forces the ball to Beckham and Randle or throws the ball away. There's no reason that Vereen doesn't see at least 5 targets per game. There's no reason that Will Tye doesn't see 5 or more targets a game. The panic that Manning has displayed at times this year is unnerving. You can say all you want about the offensive line these past few years, but they've kept him upright and kept him upright more so than most teams.

 

Like Jim says, you don't go 5 years without making the playoffs and become immune to criticism because you won Super Bowls quite a few years ago. Manning has not been doing much to win games for this team. He's been keeping them in games, sure. But where's the cerebral, dissecting the defense, presnap? Where's the killer instinct when in opponent territory? Where's the on-field leadership? Why can he not throw past the first down marker on third down? Like Coughlin, he says all the right things but he hasn't been delivering. He used to be a QB that you could almost count on to have a big fourth quarter. Now, they struggle to convert a first down in the 4th.

[fringe]

Will Tye? No reason? LOL!

[Storm]

Will Tye? No reason? LOL!

 

Why? Because he's not a high round draft pick or from a powerhouse college? He's proven his worth, and he is more consistent in catching passes than Larry Donnell. You guys seem like big statistics guys. 24 receptions, 12.3 YPC which I have to imagine his YPC is leading tight ends at the moment.

[GA4M]

 

But, he has legitimate outlets that go ignored for entire halves and sometimes even entire games while he forces the ball to Beckham and Randle or throws the ball away. There's no reason that Vereen doesn't see at least 5 targets per game. There's no reason that Will Tye doesn't see 5 or more targets a game. The panic that Manning has displayed at times this year is unnerving. You can say all you want about the offensive line these past few years, but they've kept him upright and kept him upright more so than most teams.

 

Like Jim says, you don't go 5 years without making the playoffs and become immune to criticism because you won Super Bowls quite a few years ago. Manning has not been doing much to win games for this team. He's been keeping them in games, sure. But where's the cerebral, dissecting the defense, presnap? Where's the killer instinct when in opponent territory? Where's the on-field leadership? Why can he not throw past the first down marker on third down? Like Coughlin, he says all the right things but he hasn't been delivering. He used to be a QB that you could almost count on to have a big fourth quarter. Now, they struggle to convert a first down in the 4th.

I agree, but we're stuck now for years. but I also know we have more problems other than his play.

[Sephiroth]

Eli hasn't been playing well but honestly, what does he have?

 

OBJ is a fucking phenom, but everyone else? Randle has been marginal at best his whole career. Harris might be a nice number three but he doesn't scare anybody. Reese can't find a TE for shit and we're on our third string TE. None of the running backs are notable, and on its best day we have an Oline whose entire right side is below average.

 

At this stage in their careers, most QBs need a running game and dominant Oline to be successful. Instead this team lines Eli up behind Jeff Schwartz and whoever the fuck plays right tackle asks him to throw fifty times a game because Orleans Darkwa is the team's best back.

 

I don't think any QB could win with this cast.

[Storm]

I completely disagree. There is far more talent on this offense than on a team like te Redskins. Which makes it all the more baffling that we currently have the same record. And I'm not sure where the perception that Will Tye is a bad tight end and not a legitimate target comes from.

[Sephiroth]

I completely disagree. There is far more talent on this offense than on a team like te Redskins. Which makes it all the more baffling that we currently have the same record. And I'm not sure where the perception that Will Tye is a bad tight end and not a legitimate target comes from.

There's definitely more talent than a team like the Redskins, but they're comparable. They have a pretty good receiver that's not as good as Beckham, but they also have a better Oline than the Giants.

 

For the record, I think Will Tye has actually been pretty good, but he's not a guy that keeps D-coordinators up at night. I hope he can develop into a good blocker... haven't had one of those since Ballard.

[Mr. P]

There's definitely more talent than a team like the Redskins, but they're comparable. They have a pretty good receiver that's not as good as Beckham, but they also have a better Oline than the Giants.

 

For the record, I think Will Tye has actually been pretty good, but he's not a guy that keeps D-coordinators up at night. I hope he can develop into a good blocker... haven't had one of those since Ballard.

 

Bennett was a good blocker.