How Tom Coughlin has failed the Giants

[JMFP]

Can any of you guys blaming Reese for everything provide a list of recent players who have IMPROVED under Coach Coughlin?

 

One I can think of is Prince, who has progressed his play over his rookie year performance. Can any of you list any others? How many are WORSE players now than when they came out of college?

 

Hint: He's a former running back that was on the way to washing out of the NFL as a fumble machine. Now, he want's Coughlin fired.

[Nas]

 

Hint: He's a former running back that was on the way to washing out of the NFL as a fumble machine. Now, he want's Coughlin fired.

 

Yea but fuck that guy!!!

[Tempest]

 

Great job of missing the point. I'm not looking at college performance, but the talent they displayed as rookies that doesn't get developed as pros.

 

Ok we both understand college performance can't be used for comparison. Ok so now which talented players looked really good their first year and faded soon after come to mind? I have to ask because Tom Coughlin doesn't put rookies on the field unless they earn it. I can't think of a single talented rookie who excelled early on and then disappeared that wasn't somehow injury related.

[Nas]

 

Ok we both understand college performance can't be used for comparison. Ok so now which talented players looked really good their first year and faded soon after come to mind? I have to ask because Tom Coughlin doesn't put rookies on the field unless they earn it. I can't think of a single talented rookie who excelled early on and then disappeared that wasn't somehow injury related.

The infamous Coughlin "doghouse" comes to mind... Wilson was a potential home run hitter and he warmed the bench for a long time

[Dragon]

The infamous Coughlin "doghouse" comes to mind... Wilson was a potential home run hitter and he warmed the bench for a long time

My thing about Wilson and the rest of the backs after Barber is if Tiki got it... why wasn't anyone else able to grasp the concept of high and tight?

[Herc]

to be fair wilson only fumbled once after he was benched in his debut. coughlin just REALLY hated his 3 career fumbles more than anyone else's i guess

[BlueInCanada]

The infamous Coughlin "doghouse" comes to mind... Wilson was a potential home run hitter and he warmed the bench for a long time

 

It was his rookie year and that team didn't have any success running the ball Wilson or not.

 

He still had a plenty of touches on special teams and got some touches in the run game, I'm sure the coaching staff figured instead of having him killed his rookie year they would let him get experience in the return game.

 

Then he fucked up his neck and the rest is history, it's not like Wilson had his talent squandered, he just had to choose between walking again or trying to play football again.

[Treehugger]

 

Hint: He's a former running back that was on the way to washing out of the NFL as a fumble machine. Now, he want's Coughlin fired.

 

Recent Joe, not a decade ago.

[Treehugger]

 

Ok we both understand college performance can't be used for comparison. Ok so now which talented players looked really good their first year and faded soon after come to mind? I have to ask because Tom Coughlin doesn't put rookies on the field unless they earn it. I can't think of a single talented rookie who excelled early on and then disappeared that wasn't somehow injury related.

 

JPP, Cruz, Randle, Moore...I'd even suggest Paysinger and Williams too.

[fishgutmartyr]

 

At the end of the day, those guys are Coughlin's responsibility too.

 

On the other hand, we wouldn't have won anything without Flaherty/Nunn. Sure, we kept them too long, but they proved to be good hires initially.

 

 

organizational failure from top to bottom. i really have a hard time finding anyone to give a pass to

 

Even that is only partly true. It certainly played the primary role, but circumstances like ridiculous amounts of injuries and shortened careers also took its toll. Seubert is a great example--one minute he's playing probowl level, the next his knee is hosed, and his career is done.

 

 

Agreed.

 

We had the same problem last year in the microcosm of the offense. GIlly was so inept for so many years... and Eli was playing so bad... and the offense AS A WHOLE was so bad... that it became "well, is Eli bad because of Gilly's playcalling, because of shitty players, or because Eli is just bad?"

 

Yep. Thank god all of that was resolved this year.

 

Could we wait and see if McAdoo actually accomplishes something before talking about what an upgrade he is? The only thing he's shown so far is that his offense can be good against really shitty teams and sometimes in garbage time. I'm not saying he sucks, but he's not exactly rocking the foundations of NFL coaching, either.

[fishgutmartyr]

The infamous Coughlin "doghouse" comes to mind... Wilson was a potential home run hitter and he warmed the bench for a long time

 

The Wilson myth. I still don't get what you guys saw with him--that one Eagle's game when the Eagles had clearly given up the ghost a few games earlier? Some decent kick returns?

 

The only thing the "doghouse" did to Wilson was keep him out of IR for a year. With stenosis, it was just a matter of when his career ended early.

[Herc]

from the very first game (saints at home) that wilson came out of the 3 month doghouse he ran well the rest of the season. 43 for 247 and 3 td's last 4 games

[Gman329]

But remember, it took that long for Eli and the coaches to trust him to pick up the blitz....and even then, it was hit and miss, which is understandable - he never had to do it in college. The kid had a few things to learn.

[gmenroc]

Just to add a point to the Wilson discussion, we don't necessarily know what was going on in practice either. Is it possible that Wilson fumbled frequently in practice and the coaches were on him constantly about how he carried the ball, only to have him screw it up in game time? Don't know, but if I preach something to my kids or employees repeatedly and the second I give them freedom to operate on their own and they miss the most basic of instructions I gave them...I could see revoking some of that freedom because they couldn't handle it appropriately. Now, a whole season, that's too much...but I don't have a problem with the initial benching.

[Treehugger]

 

On the other hand, we wouldn't have won anything without Flaherty/Nunn. Sure, we kept them too long, but they proved to be good hires initially.

 

 

 

Even that is only partly true. It certainly played the primary role, but circumstances like ridiculous amounts of injuries and shortened careers also took its toll. Seubert is a great example--one minute he's playing probowl level, the next his knee is hosed, and his career is done.

 

 

Yep. Thank god all of that was resolved this year.

 

Could we wait and see if McAdoo actually accomplishes something before talking about what an upgrade he is? The only thing he's shown so far is that his offense can be good against really shitty teams and sometimes in garbage time. I'm not saying he sucks, but he's not exactly rocking the foundations of NFL coaching, either.

 

No doubt, the team was working for a good long stretch there, but it hasn't been working for three seasons now and it's not improving. I do wonder where we'd be if guys like Smith, Nicks, Bradshaw and Phillips stayed healthy. Probably in cap hell but we'd at least would have had more options to work on depth at OLine.

[JMFP]

 

Recent Joe, not a decade ago.

 

It would be awesome if Coughlin had the power to magically transform non-producing college players into NFL studs.

 

But, given the initial talent level, compounded by injuries, I don't think that's realistic.

 

Garbage in, garbage out....every coach needs a guy with a flicker of competitive spirit. Instead, he's working with kids who skated by on their athletic chops and are now getting the shit kicked out of them by opponents who are tougher and want to win more.

[Treehugger]

 

It would be awesome if Coughlin had the power to magically transform non-producing college players into NFL studs.

 

But, given the initial talent level, compounded by injuries, I don't think that's realistic.

 

He's been transforming promising and producing rookies into unemployed ex-athletes. He's been given talent, he hasn't done shit with it.

[CrazedDogs]

Except for two Lombardis....

[Gman329]

Except for two Lombardis....

 

Yeah, well, if you want to count that.....

 

But he's also lost 137 games!!!!

 

OK, he's 161-137.....but he's also lost 7 playoff games!!!!

 

OK, his playoff record is 12-7 (.632) and he's won 5 Divisional Championships and yeah, those two Super Bowls.....but outside of that, the guy's done squat. Clearly, he has no idea how to coach.

 

As I've been saying, you want to argue that sometimes, it's just time, even for the great ones, I can understand that argument. To suggest that old Tom can't coach is ridiculous.

[fishgutmartyr]

 

No doubt, the team was working for a good long stretch there, but it hasn't been working for three seasons now and it's not improving. I do wonder where we'd be if guys like Smith, Nicks, Bradshaw and Phillips stayed healthy. Probably in cap hell but we'd at least would have had more options to work on depth at OLine.

 

I'm not really arguing against your point. I'm pointing out that while you can rip Nunn for the progress of JPP, you have to give him credit for the development of Tuck.

 

Just like you have to give Flaherty credit for Diehl and Snee.

 

Granted, those guys had talent to begin with, but supposedly Pugh, Moore, and JPP have talent as well. So why did it work with the first three, and not with the second? Is the lack of drive in the player, or the coach? Or both?

[Treehugger]

 

I'm not really arguing against your point. I'm pointing out that while you can rip Nunn for the progress of JPP, you have to give him credit for the development of Tuck.

 

Just like you have to give Flaherty credit for Diehl and Snee.

 

Granted, those guys had talent to begin with, but supposedly Pugh, Moore, and JPP have talent as well. So why did it work with the first three, and not with the second? Is the lack of drive in the player, or the coach? Or both?

 

My question exactly. What's failing now?

[CrazedDogs]

 

Yeah, well, if you want to count that.....

 

But he's also lost 137 games!!!!

 

OK, he's 161-137.....but he's also lost 7 playoff games!!!!

 

OK, his playoff record is 12-7 (.632) and he's won 5 Divisional Championships and yeah, those two Super Bowls.....but outside of that, the guy's done squat. Clearly, he has no idea how to coach.

 

As I've been saying, you want to argue that sometimes, it's just time, even for the great ones, I can understand that argument. To suggest that old Tom can't coach is ridiculous.

 

agreed.

[JMFP]

 

He's been transforming promising and producing rookies into unemployed ex-athletes. He's been given talent, he hasn't done shit with it.

 

I would argue he's taken what he's gotten and coached the shit out of them.

 

Look at 2007.....can you argue that the 2007 roster was the most talented in the NFL? Or 2011 for that matter?

 

The Giants have won 4 Super Bowls, and exactly 1 time (1986) can someone make the argument that they were clearly the best team in the league.

 

That 1990 season was built upon maybe the best coaching job in Giants history.....a staff that included Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin, beating a team that absolutely wiped the floor with the Raiders (a 13-3 team) in the AFCCG. On paper, the Bills were the best team that year.

 

Fast forward to 2007.....the Patriots were far and away the team to beat. In the NFC, the Cowboys and Packers were the class of the conference.

 

Similarly, in 2011, the Packers were the best team in the NFC, probably the league.....followed by the 49ers and the Patriots.

 

So, yeah, in my mind, it would help a whole lot if Reese got some more fucking football players, and less gymnasts.

[Nas]

 

I would argue he's taken what he's gotten and coached the shit out of them.

 

Look at 2007.....can you argue that the 2007 roster was the most talented in the NFL? Or 2011 for that matter?

 

The Giants have won 4 Super Bowls, and exactly 1 time (1986) can someone make the argument that they were clearly the best team in the league.

 

That 1990 season was built upon maybe the best coaching job in Giants history.....a staff that included Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin, beating a team that absolutely wiped the floor with the Raiders (a 13-3 team) in the AFCCG. On paper, the Bills were the best team that year.

 

Fast forward to 2007.....the Patriots were far and away the team to beat. In the NFC, the Cowboys and Packers were the class of the conference.

 

Similarly, in 2011, the Packers were the best team in the NFC, probably the league.....followed by the 49ers and the Patriots.

 

So, yeah, in my mind, it would help a whole lot if Reese got some more fucking football players, and less gymnasts.

That's a very strong argument Joe. I do think Reese has adjusted his draft strategy at least in 2014... We have at least 3 rookies contributing in a big way....

[Treehugger]

Jesus Joe, stop that shit. Reese doesn't pick in a bubble. Those are Coughlin's guys too.