TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I tend to think it's the design of the plays and the execution of getting lineman out there....we have a pretty finesse offensive line so I would guess it is partly because we don't have that mean, incredibly athletic for his size, big dude that is able to get out there to the second level fast enough to get that first guy. Second, I can't remember the last time I saw Ahmad Bradshaw actually follow his blockers....he does not have the vision to be effective in a screen play. Jacobs is too slow to be out there. I do remember seeing it work with DJ Ware a couple times throughout the season, however... Excellent analysis ....and I agree.... Bradshaw freelances far too much during screens and does not allow the play a chance to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Excellent analysis ....and I agree.... Bradshaw freelances far too much during screens and does not allow the play a chance to develop. Yep, and quite often you'll even see him hit a hole and immediately cut away from his pulling guard and lead blocker (Hynoski) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yep, and quite often you'll even see him hit a hole and immediately cut away from his pulling guard and lead blocker (Hynoski) It was commented upon a couple of times during the Super Bowl....they broke down one play where he might still be running if he had stuck with his blockers as opposed to going for the cut back the minute he got to the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 http://espn.go.com/b...ns-in-the-money NFC East cap space...we're over, by a bunch. Not sure if this includes guys like McKenzie or not since he's technically still on the roster. I am not sure when your unsigned guys technically become FAs and their contract officially comes off the books. Maybe it already is...I don't know. We must have some extremely bloated contracts. How is it that the Eagles sign every marquis player in free agency last year and they are still 14 million UNDER the cap? We sign David Baas and some rookies and we end up 7 million over with a bunch of contracts coming off the books? Doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 We must have some extremely bloated contracts. How is it that the Eagles sign every marquis player in free agency last year and they are still 14 million UNDER the cap? We sign David Baas and some rookies and we end up 7 million over with a bunch of contracts coming off the books? Doesn't make sense. We do have a few bloated ones.. only Eli's is worth it. Rolle I think commands $9M... no way he's worth that much... and neither is Canty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I agree with Storms analysis on Bradshaw. However his toughness and energy is amazing and pound for pound hes one of the toughest/strongest in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 We do have a few bloated ones.. only Eli's is worth it. Rolle I think commands $9M... no way he's worth that much... and neither is Canty. Problem is that you can't cut them. Huge cap hits and there valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Problem is that you can't cut them. Huge cap hits and there valuable. What's the cap hit on each of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What's the cap hit on each of them? Not exactly sure but it's alot. Especially Rolle. Way too much, that's all I'm sure of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Not exactly sure but it's alot. Especially Rolle. Way too much, that's all I'm sure of. If that's case I'd have to question the skill level of Giants' fiscal office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Is the cap supposed to grow at all with this new cba? Didn't half the team restructure contracts last year, including Eli and Rolle? How are we still facing cap issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Posted earlier in the thread: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/ Rolle's base salary is close to $7M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelmo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What's the cap hit on each of them? Canty's cap figure for 2012 will be 7.66 million, 6 million of base salary, 1.4 million from his signing bonus, and 250,000 in "misc bonuses".... He's signed through 2014, cutting him would mean taking the cap hit of his signing bonus for the remaining years of his contract, which at 1.4 mil a year, totals 4.2 mil, he's also due a "miscelleneous bonus" of 250,000 in each of those years, which depending on the nature of the bonus may or may not count against the cap....so we'd have to eat somewhere between 4.2 and 5 million dollars of dead cap space by cutting him, but would free up between 2.7 and 3.4 million dollars.... Rolle is also signed through 2014...his cap figure for 2012 is 9.1 million, 6.75 million of base salary, 1 million from his signing bonus and 1.35 million in a bonus I don't know the nature of...so Rolle's cap hit were he to be cut would be at least 3 million dollars, and depending on the nature of the other bonus it would be over 7 millon dollars... -Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelmo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Like I posted earlier, how future signing bonuses are assesed against the cap depends upon when the player is released. If the player is released before June 1, all the signing bonuses and other eligible bonuses remaining on his contract are accelerated into this years cap, whereas if the player is cut after June 1, only this years bonuses count against this years cap, and the bonuses of the remaining years of the contract are all accumulated against next years cap. Having said that, I read somewhere that there is a provision in the CBA that allows you to treat two players who are in actuality cut before June 1 as if they were cut after June 1 for cap purposes....this allows you to manuever in free agency/draft while defraying the cap hit over two years....so for example you could cut Canty, and instead of taking a 4.2 million dollar cap hit this year, it'd be a 1.4 mil hit this year and 2.8 next year. -Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelmo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Ok now I get it...when Rolle restructured last year we gave him another signing bonus of 4 million dollars, which gets defrayed a million a year over the remaining years of his contract....the other bonuses are a 250,000 workout bonus, which I believe counts against the cap, and a 100,000 Pro Bowl Bonus which probably won't. So at this point with three years left in his deal Rolle would cost us about 6.75 million dollars to cut...3 million from his original signing bonus back in 2010, another 3 million from the signing bonus when he restructured, and another 750,000 from his workout bonus, which is an incentive "likely to be earned" which counts against the cap even if it goes unearned. Edit- I'm not sure if future workout bonuses count against the cap when a player is cut -Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I agree with Storms analysis on Bradshaw. However his toughness and energy is amazing and pound for pound hes one of the toughest/strongest in the business. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hey Zelmo, I wonder why we could spread Rolle's signing bonus cap hit over the course of his remaining contract (with him hypothetically being cut) but couldn't do it with Canty.... In fact, I think that is something that should have been worked in to the CBA in the first place....depending on when you cut the player, the cap hit gets spread out over the course of the years included in the original contract.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 But the fact is, Rolle and Canty are definitely overpaid. They are valuable. But not nearly as valuable as we pay them. Rolle is worth maybe 6 mil a year, Canty 4-5 mil. They both should restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Can't argue with you that there overpaid. When we signed Rolle we were DESPERATE for a legit Saftey. Phillips had the knee issue and we had Cc Brown and Michael Johnson. So Reese was pressured to pay the man. But it's safe to say those signings were well worth the cap hell IMO since super bowls are great! Canty is more expendable then I though. Wouldn't be surprised to see him re-structure. He was signed as more of a luxury to replace Fred Robbins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Both Canty and Rolle are players that many won't appreciate their worth until they are gone. Yes they are expensive, too much so. But both played critical roles this season and made big plays. I really do believe that if Rolle plays next season at safety, instead of having the burden of nickel corner all year, he will be a pro bowler. At least his play will be worthy of it. I don't know why some advocate good players getting cut (looking at you, Nas). It's Reese's job to manage the cap, I'm confident he will do a fine job. The product on the field is what is most important and right now we have a great product, and the efforts of those two players are part of that. I know there will be changes, I hope we keep those two guys, however. I'm sure that there will be cuts that we will all wish didn't have to make, but I trust Reese will do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Both Canty and Rolle are players that many won't appreciate their worth until they are gone. Yes they are expensive, too much so. But both played critical roles this season and made big plays. I really do believe that if Rolle plays next season at safety, instead of having the burden of nickel corner all year, he will be a pro bowler. At least his play will be worthy of it. I don't know why some advocate good players getting cut (looking at you, Nas). It's Reese's job to manage the cap, I'm confident he will do a fine job. The product on the field is what is most important and right now we have a great product, and the efforts of those two players are part of that. I know there will be changes, I hope we keep those two guys, however. I'm sure that there will be cuts that we will all wish didn't have to make, but I trust Reese will do the right thing. I'm not so sure that anyone was asking for their head or shipping them off just yet. Rather, I think folks were simply looking at our cap situation, gravitating towards those making the most, and seeing what options were available, to include what impact cutting them would have cap-wise. Yes they're strong players, but in the case of Canty, we've drafted DT recently and may have a replacement already lined up. If it weren't for the Chad Jones accident, we might not have entered into the large contract with Rolle. Again, both have been valuable for us and again, I don't see anyone stating that they didn't contribute heavily to the SB run, but at the same time, if you're always looking to improve, all options should be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 This list is Roster Sorted By Cap Hit FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm not so sure that anyone was asking for their head or shipping them off just yet. Rather, I think folks were simply looking at our cap situation, gravitating towards those making the most, and seeing what options were available, to include what impact cutting them would have cap-wise. Yes they're strong players, but in the case of Canty, we've drafted DT recently and may have a replacement already lined up. If it weren't for the Chad Jones accident, we might not have entered into the large contract with Rolle. Again, both have been valuable for us and again, I don't see anyone stating that they didn't contribute heavily to the SB run, but at the same time, if you're always looking to improve, all options should be considered. Rolle was signed before the Giants drafted Chad Jones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Rolle was signed before the Giants drafted Chad Jones... Really, I thought Jones was further back than that. Regardless, there would have been greater flexibility in dealing with Rolle's contract had Chad Jones been available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Really, I thought Jones was further back than that. Regardless, there would have been greater flexibility in dealing with Rolle's contract had Chad Jones been available. Seeing as Rolle was signed in March and Jones was drafted in April, that'd be..well...kinda impossible, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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