mastershake Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Elsewhere: G Kevin Zeitler: $5.2M cap hit, PFF rating 68.9 G Will Hernandez: $5.3M, PFF 64.4 G/C Nick Gates: $3.3M PFF 60.6 T Cam Fleming (2022): $2.3M PFF 72.6 So if we had two or three of these guys, compared to the below, we'd basically have an average offensive line, instead of an abysmal offensive line, for less than $14M. Compared to current Giants (PFF): Bredeson: 43.6 McKethan: 46.1 JMS: 49.4 Phillips: 52.9 Pugh: 49.6 Neal: 39.8 Peart: 35.8 Somehow Glowinski is at a PFF of 64, despite giving up 6 sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 It is more art than science...you need a competent line coach and the rest is putting in the hours and picking players to play to their advantages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 24 minutes ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said: It is more art than science...you need a competent line coach and the rest is putting in the hours and picking players to play to their advantages... Yeah it's no surprise these guys got better since leaving the mess of Judge/Schurmur. Also I'd like to know the total guaranteed of each guy vs what we are guaranteeing our guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said: Yeah it's no surprise these guys got better since leaving the mess of Judge/Schurmur. Also I'd like to know the total guaranteed of each guy vs what we are guaranteeing our guys. Yes... so right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 I forgot Josh Ezeudu, 42.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Hit or miss... we have been missing for starters... the line is drawn in the sand now and we start from this point. I believe this is our nadir... and we go up from here bro. We have been picking backups at best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 I lay all the same blame on the HC and Front Office if the OL coach is the main problem with this team, considering they hired him. Why aren't they replacing him if he's the main problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 1 hour ago, mastershake said: I lay all the same blame on the HC and Front Office if the OL coach is the main problem with this team, considering they hired him. Why aren't they replacing him if he's the main problem? I'm starting to think these guys don't know what they're doing. That first Schoen draft was fucking horrible, and when he saw that all three of his o-linemen he drafted and the one FA acquisition were all bad his plan was "hope one doesn't suck next year." As I often say... hope is not a strategy. This is criminal negligence on Schoen's part. He's not been a good GM so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Patience friend... often with these things there are politics involved... I think they have to come out from underneath the cap hits and were only trying to catch lightning in a bottle again. Patience... I think they have the answer... it is best that they don't jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sephiroth said: I'm starting to think these guys don't know what they're doing. That first Schoen draft was fucking horrible, and when he saw that all three of his o-linemen he drafted and the one FA acquisition were all bad his plan was "hope one doesn't suck next year." As I often say... hope is not a strategy. This is criminal negligence on Schoen's part. He's not been a good GM so far. It is only two years in... been faced with these rebuilding cycles since 1968. Remember Parcells and Belichek are geniuses because they succeeded as well.... as being good. It pays to be lucky as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Who makes the protection calls in this offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 4 hours ago, CrazedDogs said: Who makes the protection calls in this offense? It should be the center,,, and a veteran QB like Eli and/or Simms. They were really good at making protection calls. The Center is supposed to be the captain right there and is supposed to make the calls. However our centers have been mostly hot garbage so there you have it. One Read DJ and OMG I am Hurt Taylor are not good enough to make the reads, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Also: Who's telling half the guys on the OL to spin around in a circle without touching the defender, twice per game each? I think our OL coaches must have been ballet dancers or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 3 hours ago, mastershake said: Also: Who's telling half the guys on the OL to spin around in a circle without touching the defender, twice per game each? I think our OL coaches must have been ballet dancers or something. You need a basic hat on hat coach. First and foremost. Reinforce what people can do well... once you have that mastered go onto to something else. Trap, pulling and misdirection plays are the hardest for college players to execute. Impossible without fair to good veteran talent to show them what to do. To demonstrate good line play. The issue are that practices have been changed and minimized over the last 15 years to rightly reduce injuries and concussions. When you have a fair to good line the minimization of practices have a positive impact. When you have a poor line the lack of practice results in spinning in space. A lot of college players and NFL players who never learned better, everyone in the NFL is above average and the speed that people operate in is phenomenal. College stars for the most part can't deal with this in a positive way without good veteran talent around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 On 11/18/2023 at 10:05 AM, mastershake said: Elsewhere: G Kevin Zeitler: $5.2M cap hit, PFF rating 68.9 G Will Hernandez: $5.3M, PFF 64.4 G/C Nick Gates: $3.3M PFF 60.6 T Cam Fleming (2022): $2.3M PFF 72.6 So if we had two or three of these guys, compared to the below, we'd basically have an average offensive line, instead of an abysmal offensive line, for less than $14M. Compared to current Giants (PFF): Bredeson: 43.6 McKethan: 46.1 JMS: 49.4 Phillips: 52.9 Pugh: 49.6 Neal: 39.8 Peart: 35.8 Somehow Glowinski is at a PFF of 64, despite giving up 6 sacks. Apart from Zeitler, the other 3 did nothing that made them worth keeping while they were here. Can't keep going back revisiting guys who might now be doing better elsewhere. They are gone for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, boohyah said: Apart from Zeitler, the other 3 did nothing that made them worth keeping while they were here. Can't keep going back revisiting guys who might now be doing better elsewhere. They are gone for a reason. But is the reason on the player who didn't perform or the coaches who put them in shitty positions or couldn't communicate plays effectively? Yeah, we uad to move on, but it is curious the player did well enough to be drafted/signed here and soes well enough now...but didn't do well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, gmenroc said: But is the reason on the player who didn't perform or the coaches who put them in shitty positions or couldn't communicate plays effectively? Yeah, we uad to move on, but it is curious the player did well enough to be drafted/signed here and soes well enough now...but didn't do well here. Maybe in the case of Hernandez, not getting resigned is a wake up call to get his shit together, so any improvement elsewhere may be down to that. But he was disappointing under 2 head coaches. And to put in context, it's documented here how happy I was we got him in the second. Also, not for nothing, no coach tells you "please don't follow up on your blocks". The guy often set his initial block and stopped. Nick Gates is at best decent, but nothing more and he was overpaid by DC (not surprising). He never earned a contract that big from us, and try to give JMS a chance before running his PFF numbers and saying he's a bust. It's too early. You want to base this off PFF. Fleming PFF in 2020 was 58.4. So based off of that, would any of you trusted him with another contract?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Not arguing that a one of them should've been kept at the time given the results...but if assigning blame to the coaches, you could argue they should've been kept to hopefully play well under a new regime here. If blaming the player, you gotta wonder what the difference was here that they couldn't make it work. The point on Hernandez potentially having a fire lit by his departure is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Hernandez lost his place in his last season, to Shane Lemieux. Same Lemieux who can't see the field worth a damn on this team. I think that's enough on him. The other point you make, my answer is this, couldn't you say that about every player?. We have the same coaches this year as last year and clearly some players are playing worse this year. Look at guys like McKinney and Jackson, you can't say they've been better this year, yet they all loved Wink last year, so what's wrong this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Winning coverz many ills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted November 20, 2023 Author Share Posted November 20, 2023 Booting Zeitler off the team, only to see him sign an incredibly modest 3 year $22M deal elsewhere, so we could sign Kenny Golladay at 4 years $72M, has to be the dumbest move in team history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 13 minutes ago, mastershake said: Booting Zeitler off the team, only to see him sign an incredibly modest 3 year $22M deal elsewhere, so we could sign Kenny Golladay at 4 years $72M, has to be the dumbest move in team history. He was able to take the modest contract since he was still getting a payday from us. To be fair too he wasn't playing well here. Add another player who got better once leaving the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, mastershake said: Booting Zeitler off the team, only to see him sign an incredibly modest 3 year $22M deal elsewhere, so we could sign Kenny Golladay at 4 years $72M, has to be the dumbest move in team history. Agreed. I have no issue signing a wide receiver but giving up our best offensive lineman to do it . Well, Dave was just smarter than all of us that year and we've paid dearly for it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said: He was able to take the modest contract since he was still getting a payday from us. To be fair too he wasn't playing well here. Add another player who got better once leaving the team. He was still the best player on the line when he left. It wasn't his best season but we were that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, gmenroc said: Winning coverz many ills Guys still have to maintain levels. Some guys who played well last season have regressed this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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