BlueInCanada Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024006/article/john-mara-only-no-vote-for-onside-kick-alternative John Mara only no vote for onside kick alternative The Denver Broncos' proposal to provide teams with an alternative to the onside kick generated a lot of interest from the Competition Committee with only one member opposed to it. Giants owner John Mara told NFL Network's Judy Battista that he was the only no vote on the Competition Committee. "What are we, the Arena Football League?" Mara said of the proposal to provide a fourth-and-15 alternative option to the onside kick. The members believe it could be a fun option for teams, given that rule changes designed to make the kickoff safer have all but eliminated the chance to successfully execute an onside kick. The proposal calls for teams to get the option, a maximum of once per game during the fourth quarter only, of foregoing a kickoff and instead attempting to remain on offense following a score by converting what would essentially be a fourth-and-15 play from its own 35-yard line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024006/article/john-mara-only-no-vote-for-onside-kick-alternative because he knows that De Sean Jackson is back on the Eagles and that play will beat us twice a season. I agree with him 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 because he knows that De Sean Jackson is back on the Eagles and that play will beat us twice a season. I agree with him 100%. And that Robert Woods is still in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_NYG Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 This play is designed to fuck the Giants in every close game there is. As it is, we played what? 10-11 games decided by under 1 score and 6-7 was decided in the 4th Qtr. Oh HELL NO!!! This has Giants fuck up written all over it. No way this rule is applicable in a Giants game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Well, Manning cant throw beyond 10 yards so theres that. I also dont think teams that are losing should be granted a play that has a greater success rate than the current onside kick to change the tide of the game. If you want to win, play defense and score points throughout the game. If not, keep the play with a 10% chance of being successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Cant wait until pass interference gets called on a play like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Well, Manning cant throw beyond 10 yards so theres that. I also dont think teams that are losing should not be granted a play that has a greater success rate than the current onside kick to change the tide of the game. If you want to win, play defense and score points throughout the game. If not, keep the play with a 10% chance of being successful. Actually I think the reason for the 4th and 15 was that it has the same chance of being successful as an onside kick. It's the same success rate just not based on the bounce of an oblong ball being kicked into the ground. it's now based on if the other teams defense can execute better than your offense which I think it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Well, Manning cant throw beyond 10 yards so theres that. I also dont think teams that are losing should not be granted a play that has a greater success rate than the current onside kick to change the tide of the game. If you want to win, play defense and score points throughout the game. If not, keep the play with a 10% chance of being successful. Actually I think the reason for the 4th and 15 was that it has the same chance of being successful as an onside kick. It's the same success rate just not based on the bounce of an oblong ball being kicked into the ground. it's now based on if the other teams defense can execute better than your offense which I think it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaNJ Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Sounds like it is another move to completely get rid of the kick off.... What if you want to onside kick early in the game, is that illegal? What if a kicker slips and kicks a 10 yarder into the mud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'm with Drizz, you seem to see a lot more 4th-and-15 completed passes than onside kick recoveries. I can only think of two times in my 35+ years as a Giants fan that I saw our team recover our own onsides kick. Make it a 4th-and-30 and maybe we're talking. 15 yards? You see plays that long ten times a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Sounds like it is another move to completely get rid of the kick off.... What if you want to onside kick early in the game, is that illegal? What if a kicker slips and kicks a 10 yarder into the mud? There's nothing stopping a team for doing an onside kick whenever they want, the rule purposes that once a game a team that is losing in the fourth quarter can elect to have a 4th and 15 instead of a onside kick. And I don't think I've ever seen your scenario ever happen but as long as the balm travels 10 yards it's live to recover for the kicking team, it's always been this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'm with Drizz, you seem to see a lot more 4th-and-15 completed passes than onside kick recoveries. I can only think of two times in my 35+ years as a Giants fan that I saw our team recover our own onsides kick. Make it a 4th-and-30 and maybe we're talking. 15 yards? You see plays that long ten times a game. Yeah , when the giants are defending 4th and 15, it’s like 50-50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yeah , when the giants are defending 4th and 15, it’s like 50-50. Automatic first down when the Giants are leading in the fourth quarter with less than two minutes on the clock and up by less than seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 The thing is, an onside kick is very difficult because no matter how well it's planned, the oblong nature of the ball makes it difficult to recover. Allowing a regular play instead is defeating the very purpose of the onside kick play, which is "we're going to try this last-ditch effort to allow us to score again but it's down to how the ball bounces." You get to carefully plan how you want to approach the play as opposed to it being more or less chance that you continue your drive. This is a horrible rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Cant wait until pass interference gets called on a play like this Thats a great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Hes 100% right. I can't believe he was the only one that was opposed to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 What if they don’t make it? Is the ball spotted on the line of scrimmage? What if there’s a turnover, does it count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Actually I think the reason for the 4th and 15 was that it has the same chance of being successful as an onside kick. It's the same success rate just not based on the bounce of an oblong ball being kicked into the ground. it's now based on if the other teams defense can execute better than your offense which I think it should be. That would make sense if every 4th and 15 occurred after a defense has been on the field for the previous drive and the offense is clicking and had momentum. The offense has every advantage here and I expect the conversion rate would be higher than even the standard 4th and 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 That would make sense if every 4th and 15 occurred after a defense has been on the field for the previous drive and the offense is clicking and had momentum. The offense has every advantage here and I expect the conversion rate would be higher than even the standard 4th and 15.By your logic no team with any offensive momentum should be punting then on 4th down and would be advantaged to go for it regardless of distance. Typically following a TD and extra point there is a commercial time out and the coaches can still call a real time out to allow the defense more time to rest. Since eliminating the running start of kickoffs the one side recovery chance has dropped to below 5 percent. A 4th and 15 statistically is in the range of 12 percent conversion chance and are done in the same desperate situations as the team would be going for so I highly doubt the conversation rate would increase if at all or even decrease because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 What if they dont make it? Is the ball spotted on the line of scrimmage? What if theres a turnover, does it count? It's considered a play like any other on the field, article even states it that it would just be giving the team a 4th down on their 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 The thing is, an onside kick is very difficult because no matter how well it's planned, the oblong nature of the ball makes it difficult to recover. Allowing a regular play instead is defeating the very purpose of the onside kick play, which is "we're going to try this last-ditch effort to allow us to score again but it's down to how the ball bounces." You get to carefully plan how you want to approach the play as opposed to it being more or less chance that you continue your drive. This is a horrible rule. So one play a game instead of it being decided by chance it's decided by the actual players and coaches of the game. Weird people would want that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 By your logic no team with any offensive momentum should be punting then on 4th down and would be advantaged to go for it regardless of distance. Typically following a TD and extra point there is a commercial time out and the coaches can still call a real time out to allow the defense more time to rest. Since eliminating the running start of kickoffs the one side recovery chance has dropped to below 5 percent. A 4th and 15 statistically is in the range of 12 percent conversion chance and are done in the same desperate situations as the team would be going for so I highly doubt the conversation rate would increase if at all or even decrease because of it. My logic is simply that 4th and 15 taking place after a defense has been on the field for likely 5+ minutes isnt a viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 So one play a game instead of it being decided by chance it's decided by the actual players and coaches of the game. Weird people would want that lol I dont like the onside kick option, either, personally. Force a turnover, make a stop, score points or you lose. Why should teams be rewarded for losing with a chance to run a play? Itd be like a basketball team given a shot from half court to try to tie and force over time. Football is the only sport that rewards losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 My logic is simply that 4th and 15 taking place after a defense has been on the field for likely 5+ minutes isnt a viable solution. Your logic would make sense if the offense wasn't on the field for the same length of time, but they are. And once again TV time outs and real time outs remain a thing for both sides to get a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 I dont like the onside kick option, either, personally. Force a turnover, make a stop, score points or you lose. Why should teams be rewarded for losing with a chance to run a play? Itd be like a basketball team given a shot from half court to try to tie and force over time. Football is the only sport that rewards losing.In hockey the losing team can pull their goalie for an extra player on the ice risking the possibility of an easy goal scored against them. I see it the same way. The losing team in football once a game can have the opportunity after a field goal or TD to risk continuing a drive or giving the other team the ball likely inside their 40 yard line. Instead of using an play that has now only a 5 percent chance of working because players no longer have a running start on kick offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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