Mr. P Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think they keep those stats, Pdub... but we've seen Coughlin go with a gimpy washed up veteran over a young energetic rookie or 2nd year man... Hankin was wreaking havoc in the very limited time he got... Moore didn't play much though JPP was invisible out there... Nassib.. even in a game that didn't matter.. they risked an injury to Eli instead of getting this guy on the field even for the 2nd half of a meaningless game... I've seen other teams play their rookies.. if I recall correctly the catch that broke our season was made by a Dallas rookie.... and Rolle was running in circles for some reason. Pugh started every game. Snee as a rookie started. Prince played significantly as a rookie. 2007 nearly every rookie contributed. Hosely played a lot as a rookie. Jacquain Williams has played a lot. Linval Joseph played a lot early on. Kenny Phillips and Terrell Thomas both played early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does anyone have any actual stats or proof to show that other teams play their rookies sooner and more often than the giants? I believe it's a myth. Agree. Even the notorious benching of Wilson happened his rookie year, so obviously the original plan was to get him into games. I see nothing wrong with letting rookies watch for a while before putting them into games, if the team can afford to. And if Randle was having as much difficulty as he did his second season, how bad would he have been in 2012? I don't think they keep those stats, Pdub... but we've seen Coughlin go with a gimpy washed up veteran over a young energetic rookie or 2nd year man... Hankin was wreaking havoc in the very limited time he got... Moore didn't play much though JPP was invisible out there... Nassib.. even in a game that didn't matter.. they risked an injury to Eli instead of getting this guy on the field even for the 2nd half of a meaningless game... I've seen other teams play their rookies.. if I recall correctly the catch that broke our season was made by a Dallas rookie.... and Rolle was running in circles for some reason. To be fair: Hankins: DTs did just fine all season--there was no need to rush him out there. He still had playing time. Moore: He was drafted with the idea that he wouldn't be playing much at all this year. This coming year will probably be a different story, especially with a year in the weight room under his belt. Nassib: We had a line that was letting our starter get mauled. Why would you bring in a guy with no experience at this level and let him lose whatever confidence he has? I would have let Painter take the beating, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Paysinger is a situational linebacker who plays well against the run. Again, he's not going to have much value on the market so he's worth a flyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I can't think of many instances where taking a LB (who would of been available) instead of another key player would of been the right move. K.J Wright or Mason Foster over Jernigan in 2011? Maybe Bobby Wagner over Wilson in 2012. Good LB's just haven't been able to whatever spot we are in the time and you don't see good LB's ever hit the market. Paysinger(UDFA) has been pretty serviceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 yes and considering the many other holes we need to fill i think we can live with a serviceable player there which is what you were kind of getting at from the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think they keep those stats, Pdub... but we've seen Coughlin go with a gimpy washed up veteran over a young energetic rookie or 2nd year man... Hankin was wreaking havoc in the very limited time he got... Moore didn't play much though JPP was invisible out there... Nassib.. even in a game that didn't matter.. they risked an injury to Eli instead of getting this guy on the field even for the 2nd half of a meaningless game... I've seen other teams play their rookies.. if I recall correctly the catch that broke our season was made by a Dallas rookie.... and Rolle was running in circles for some reason. The only stat I know of, is that Pugh is the first rookie on the Giants to start every game his first year since Lawrence Taylor. And that was 1981, so that was 32 years without a rookie being put in the lineup like a regular. And the Giants have changed hands (or at least passed it down to the next generation), gone through three general managers; and have gone through six head coaches (Perkins, Parcells, Handley, Reeves, Fassell, and Coughlin) and untold sub-coaches. So I don't think it's Coughlin that started the idea of letting rookies get seasoned and allowed to grow into a position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Kind of hard to do a Mock before the Free Agency Market is cooled off. (let alone even started) If we address the OL or some of the OL in FA then that changes some needs at draft time. Say that's the way it goes and we are about to Draft and If we loose Nicks and Benjamin is there I would consider it no doubt but I have not seen Benjamin play very much will he be good in the west coast hybrid offence that Macadoo is going to run? Also the Lber crew has tightened up with Beason there so I don't think we go Lber 1st round ( the Offense is broken - Mara) If we take Benjamin at 12 that at 43 G David Yankey or LT Cyrus Kouanjo depending on FA acquisitions . 1 Benjamin 2 Yankey/Kouanjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 So fucking funny how Redskins have a shit season and the Rams get their draft pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If a stud linebacker is available and Reese whiffs again, I'm going to take a shit on his windshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Agree. Even the notorious benching of Wilson happened his rookie year, so obviously the original plan was to get him into games. I see nothing wrong with letting rookies watch for a while before putting them into games, if the team can afford to. And if Randle was having as much difficulty as he did his second season, how bad would he have been in 2012? To be fair: Hankins: DTs did just fine all season--there was no need to rush him out there. He still had playing time. Moore: He was drafted with the idea that he wouldn't be playing much at all this year. This coming year will probably be a different story, especially with a year in the weight room under his belt. Nassib: We had a line that was letting our starter get mauled. Why would you bring in a guy with no experience at this level and let him lose whatever confidence he has? I would have let Painter take the beating, too. You're good, my friend... You're very good you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Agree. Even the notorious benching of Wilson happened his rookie year, so obviously the pporiginal plan was to get him into games. I see nothing wrong with letting rookies watch for a while before putting them into games, if the team can afford to. And if Randle was having as much difficulty as he did his second season, how bad would he have been in 2012? To be fair: Hankins: DTs did just fine all season--there was no need to rush him out there. He still had playing time. Moore: He was drafted with the idea that he wouldn't be playing much at all this year. This coming year will probably be a different story, especially with a year in the weight room under his belt. Nassib: We had a line that was letting our starter get mauled. Why would you bring in a guy with no experience at this level and let him lose whatever confidence he has? I would have let Painter take the beating, too. Moore and Hankins were pretty much rs seniors on a NFL team. Both them are only 21, no rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 So fucking funny how Redskins have a shit season and the Rams get their draft pick! I feel bad for the 'Skins, if they had a HC who knew how to groom a QB, Robert the Three might have just been an great QB. Instead Shanny fucked the kids development over, if it wasnt for Elway being in the peak of his career, Shanny wouldnt of won any SBs while there. Now Rob the Tres is just left to hobble around on a bum knee, while hoping Gruden's overrated brother can help him become a pocket passer, which is what he should of been groomed to be from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 The only stat I know of, is that Pugh is the first rookie on the Giants to start every game his first year since Lawrence Taylor. And that was 1981, so that was 32 years without a rookie being put in the lineup like a regular. And the Giants have changed hands (or at least passed it down to the next generation), gone through three general managers; and have gone through six head coaches (Perkins, Parcells, Handley, Reeves, Fassell, and Coughlin) and untold sub-coaches. So I don't think it's Coughlin that started the idea of letting rookies get seasoned and allowed to grow into a position. And the guy who started every game his rookie season 32 years ago proved to be a HOF'er. On a pretty weak team. I'm fond of Kelly, Lloyd, Carson and Van Pelt, but come on, now...that was a no-brainer. Frankly, a team that has had the records the Giants have had over the past 8 years shouldn't need to play rookies as starters from game one. If they did, we should be shitting all over Reese & Co. Which, of course, is what is happening now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I didn't ask for them to start... Just need to see the field more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 And the guy who started every game his rookie season 32 years ago proved to be a HOF'er. On a pretty weak team. I'm fond of Kelly, Lloyd, Carson and Van Pelt, but come on, now...that was a no-brainer. Frankly, a team that has had the records the Giants have had over the past 8 years shouldn't need to play rookies as starters from game one. If they did, we should be shitting all over Reese & Co. Which, of course, is what is happening now. Interestingly, Pugh (the first rookie in 32 years to start every game since Taylor) wasn't even playing his natural position. He was a lifelong left tackle and was switched to right tackle because we already had a "stud" (high paid player anyway) at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Didn't Pugh start at RT at Cuse for a year or two before switching to LT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Didn't Pugh start at RT at Cuse for a year or two before switching to LT? I've watched a lot of Syracuse football and never saw him lineup on the right. He didn't play at all in his freshman year, but became a standout once he started seeing the field in his sophomore year making the All Big East second team. By his junior year, he made All Big East and ESPN first team. I've always seen him lined up on the left and he was uncanny at keeping Nassib untouched. If he ever played on the right side, I never saw it. I was confused when the Giants were discussing moving him to the right and even more confused when they were talking about making him a guard. It would be a total waste to move him to guard. His footwork, balance, speed, and anticipation is perfect for tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 OK, maybe I just got that impression because the Giants said from the day they drafted him that he could play anywhere on the line. What I saw from his college tapes is exactly as you say - nobody got near the QB. He always seemed to have perfect positioning and balance and always looked calm and unhurried......never scrambling to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 OK, maybe I just got that impression because the Giants said from the day they drafted him that he could play anywhere on the line. What I saw from his college tapes is exactly as you say - nobody got near the QB. He always seemed to have perfect positioning and balance and always looked calm and unhurried......never scrambling to catch up. I think it was more draft analysts saying he should play multiple OG cause of the short arms. Like Bleedin said in reality he's not a great fit at G. His biggest strength is footwork and that would do him no good at OG, His biggest weakness is lack of power which he would need at OG. I could seeing him moving to LT while Beatty is out and Mosley would probably get first crack at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 My hunch is, there's at least one more name in the mix before we hit camp. Contract or no, they can't put all their eggs in Beatty's (or Mosley's) basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 My hunch is, there's at least one more name in the mix before we hit camp. Contract or no, they can't put all their eggs in Beatty's (or Mosley's) basket. I agree, but probably not a 1st rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I feel bad for the 'Skins, if they had a HC who knew how to groom a QB, Robert the Three might have just been an great QB. Instead Shanny fucked the kids development over, if it wasnt for Elway being in the peak of his career, Shanny wouldnt of won any SBs while there. Now Rob the Tres is just left to hobble around on a bum knee, while hoping Gruden's overrated brother can help him become a pocket passer, which is what he should of been groomed to be from day one. Terrell Davis and that line would have something to say about that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 That's what I've been saying too. The guy will be out of position 4 of 5 plays but then make a tackle after a five-yard gain and everyone will be crowing about how well he's coming along. Agreed....being average is nothing to crow about. No offensive coordinator in the NFL loses any sleep about how they'll handle Paysinger on game day. This team DESPERATELY needs a linebacker that can bring a disruptive blitz.....if they have that on the strongside, plus Beason, they can get away with rotating J-Will, Paysinger, and Rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Agreed....being average is nothing to crow about. No offensive coordinator in the NFL loses any sleep about how they'll handle Paysinger on game day. This team DESPERATELY needs a linebacker that can bring a disruptive blitz.....if they have that on the strongside, plus Beason, they can get away with rotating J-Will, Paysinger, and Rivers. Payless needs to be managing a shoe store... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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