Philip Rivers....elite QB falls short again.

[JMFP]

If the onsides kick is on any coach, its the special teams coach. The guy has not gotten it done, all year. He should be fired, without a doubt. If they keep that toolbox next season, and the ST fucks up another game, Coughlin deserves to be canned.

 

The fact that everyone on this board knew our special teams sucked ass going INTO this season makes it even more aggravating. I simply knew, as a fact, that one day, our crappy special teams would cost us a game....of course, it had to be the most important game of the season.

 

Without a doubt, the defense blew that game the most....but they couldn't have done it without the help of the shitty special teams.

 

Killdrive and the offense deserve a little critcism too......31 points should have been more than enough, but if Killdrive had just gone with two or three more running plays in the 2nd half, that 8 minutes would have been closer to 6 minutes.

 

Same shit almost happened in the Redskins game....that offense simply cannot run out a fucking clock, no matter what the lead.

 

It's almost like there's some sort of timer with that offense.....right before they get to the point where is it impossible to blow a lead, they shit their pants. And if Gilbride is canned, it will be because of the offense's inability to close out tight games against good teams.

[CrazedDogs]

If the onsides kick is on any coach, its the special teams coach. The guy has not gotten it done, all year. He should be fired, without a doubt. If they keep that toolbox next season, and the ST fucks up another game, Coughlin deserves to be canned.

 

Exactly, just as Johnny Lynn got Jim Fassel fired.

[Chuck Wagon]

I forget which pair of commentators on WFAN said it yesterday but I believe they were point on. Both Eli and Tuck need to stop this Silent Jim and Quiet Bob routine and get into peoples faces on the sideline and the locker room. Not to show people up but to get them motivated and focused. No one is asking them to be rah rah ...but this awww shucks bullshit is old; so is the leading by example as well.

 

I agree 100%.

 

Most of the great ones....have a bit of the asshole in them....Peyton has it in spades...Brady does...Brees....not so much, but very, very intense.....You drop a ball on any of those guys and your ain't looking forward to getting back in the huddle with them....and they'll find you on the sidelines.

 

Guy drops one on Eli...or worse gets hit right in the hands and knock the fucker in the air like its a volleyball (easily accounting for 30% of Eli's ints) they get a "we'll get them next time" from him.......or worse....nothing.

 

Just once I'd like to see him go fucking Dan Marino asshole on somebody....you have to hold people accountable....not just yourself.

 

C. Wagon

[Virginia Giant]

there is no criteria because you can't put a formula on it...but if you must, the dog will continue to maintain that currently, peyton manning, drew brees and tom brady are the elite qbs in the league. yes, they all have won a super bowl which is certainly important, but not the bottom line. being an elite qb goes beyond winning a super bowl, because a number of qbs have won it that are certainly not elite (eli, hostetler, dilfer, williams...etc...all the names the dog has pointed out before), and some elite qbs have never won it (marino, fouts, etc...). it can't just be about stats, b/c stats are driven by circumstance. it has to include intelligence and leadership, things that can't be measured but that are obvious to an observer...combine all the attributes in a positive manner, and there you have it... eli doesn't, but there you go...

Comparing Eli to Dilfer, Hostetler, and Williams is rediculous.

 

Williams never threw for more than 3.600 yards (and only twice was over 3,000), never completed more than 56.6 % of his passes (and only twice completed more than 55%), never threw more than 20 TD's. TD to INT Ratio of 1.08

 

 

Trent dilfer...never threw for 3,000 yards. Twice threw 21 TD's. Never completed 60 % of his passes. TD to INT ration of fucking 0.88

 

 

Jeff Hostetler ..... Twice threw for over 3,000 yards...Twice thrrew 20 or more TD's (20 and 23)...Identical career completion percentage as Eli. 58.0....TD to INT ratio of 1.32

 

 

 

 

 

Eli Manning... The only year not over 3,000 hyards was his rookie year. Twice (last two seasons ) over 4,000 yards. Again, other than his rookie year he's never thrown less than 20 TD's. TD to INT ration is 1.38 (better than Elway, Aikman, Unitis and Starr)

 

Anyway you slice it, Eli may not be the QB that Elway, Marino and Peyton are, but he is certainly a helluva lot closer to them than he is fucking Dilfer, Hostetler and Williams.

 

 

Oh, and Rivers is an elite QB, he puts up all the numbers and Marino consistently put up more int's a year than Rivers did in his worst.

 

 

Your arguments are rediculous and border on unintelligible. Your comparisons are ludicrous and border on insane. Your claims are just comical. Eveery point you make is shot down. I honestly don't know if you believe your crap or if you just throw out shit to disagree with Joe and anyone else who supports Eli. Get over it, Eli time and again proves you wrong.

[Nas]

Dog, lumping Eli with Dilfer, Host, and (sorry.. Williams who?) is way off base. I think Eli has been great.. maybe a bit inconsistent but great nevertheless. Ok so he is not loud and obnoxious but I'd take him over any other QB out there... including the Elites you listed.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I agree 100%.

 

Most of the great ones....have a bit of the asshole in them....Peyton has it in spades...Brady does...Brees....not so much, but very, very intense.....You drop a ball on any of those guys and your ain't looking forward to getting back in the huddle with them....and they'll find you on the sidelines.

 

Guy drops one on Eli...or worse gets hit right in the hands and knock the fucker in the air like its a volleyball (easily accounting for 30% of Eli's ints) they get a "we'll get them next time" from him.......or worse....nothing.

 

Just once I'd like to see him go fucking Dan Marino asshole on somebody....you have to hold people accountable....not just yourself.

 

C. Wagon

 

 

Yeah...that is why even though both were and are assholes (Shockey and Plax) you can understand sometimes during Eli's formative years in the NFL he threw up a bevy of hospital balls and/or could not get the open man and they expressed their frustration. Rightfully so everyone condemned them for it; they should have met him on the sideline and said "dude I was wide open there....what did you see....or dude that pass would have had me laid out, just be a little more careful...".

[JMFP]

there is no criteria because you can't put a formula on it...but if you must, the dog will continue to maintain that currently, peyton manning, drew brees and tom brady are the elite qbs in the league. yes, they all have won a super bowl which is certainly important, but not the bottom line. being an elite qb goes beyond winning a super bowl, because a number of qbs have won it that are certainly not elite (eli, hostetler, dilfer, williams...etc...all the names the dog has pointed out before), and some elite qbs have never won it (marino, fouts, etc...). it can't just be about stats, b/c stats are driven by circumstance. it has to include intelligence and leadership, things that can't be measured but that are obvious to an observer...combine all the attributes in a positive manner, and there you have it... eli doesn't, but there you go...

 

Please, Dog, let me know what you observed in Peyton Manning and Drew Brees yesterday.

 

That was some truly special sauce on Saturday....I must know the ingredients that Eli lacks.

[ksm7]

Please, Dog, let me know what you observed in Peyton Manning and Drew Brees yesterday.

 

That was some truly special sauce on Saturday....I must know the ingredients that Eli lacks.

 

really joe, is your crush on eli so intense that you can't let this go? the dog goes away for several days and comes back to this? ok, since you insist that eli is an elite QB, and you want to point to these two games this weekend to counter the dog's argument that currently brees, peyton manning and brady are the elite QBs in the league, then the dog will simply go back to the packer game this year, the eagle playoff game two years ago, the playoff games prior to 2007...etc...etc...

 

but go on, because you are the only one on here that seems to want to classify eli as elite...the only one.

[JMFP]

really joe, is your crush on eli so intense that you can't let this go? the dog goes away for several days and comes back to this? ok, since you insist that eli is an elite QB, and you want to point to these two games this weekend to counter the dog's argument that currently brees, peyton manning and brady are the elite QBs in the league, then the dog will simply go back to the packer game this year, the eagle playoff game two years ago, the playoff games prior to 2007...etc...etc...

 

but go on, because you are the only one on here that seems to want to classify eli as elite...the only one.

 

Sorry Dog, but I didn't see an answer to my question in your response.

 

Again, according to the Dog, I am supposed to set aside the Super Bowl win (over Brady, btw), the wins, the winning seasons, the playoff berths, the individual passing stats, and "observe" the QBs.

 

So, please, what did you observe last week?

[BIGBLUE01]

really joe, is your crush on eli so intense that you can't let this go? the dog goes away for several days and comes back to this? ok, since you insist that eli is an elite QB, and you want to point to these two games this weekend to counter the dog's argument that currently brees, peyton manning and brady are the elite QBs in the league, then the dog will simply go back to the packer game this year, the eagle playoff game two years ago, the playoff games prior to 2007...etc...etc...

 

but go on, because you are the only one on here that seems to want to classify eli as elite...the only one.

 

Id say hes close to elite. He does have the same # of rings as Peyton and Brees.............

[ksm7]

Sorry Dog, but I didn't see an answer to my question in your response.

 

Again, according to the Dog, I am supposed to set aside the Super Bowl win (over Brady, btw), the wins, the winning seasons, the playoff berths, the individual passing stats, and "observe" the QBs.

 

So, please, what did you observe last week?

 

at the risk of boring the rest of the members with this tired debate, the dog is asking that you look at and observe the body of work. you want to hang eli's elite status on his post season record, super bowl win, regular season wins, stats...etc...go ahead. let the dog look at this with a hypothetical: if you were named the coach of a team that had above average players in every position, you were told you had one year to win the super bowl or you were out of a job, and you were told you had to choose one of the following QBs to be your man, payton manning, tom brady, drew brees or eli manning, if eli (like every other QB with the exception of maybe roethlisberger) isn't a distant 4th on that list, than you will most likely be out of a job at the year's end.

 

anyway, the dog observed two QBs that despite injuries to key personnel throughout the season, had their teams in the postseason with the opportunity to win. take peyton manning off the colts and sub anyone not named brees or brady in that position, and that team is most likely 6-10 sitting at home.

 

look, and the dog isn't sure how many times or ways this has to be said - the dog thinks eli is a solid starting QB in the league. certainly not bad, certainly not elite. you take that personally for some uncomfortable reason. you ordained him days after the super bowl win as an elite QB...that was your call to make. more heart than head, but ok. can manning still become an elite QB by the end of his career? possibly. but he has a ways to go for that to happen, and given his level of inconsistency now at the age of 30 with 6 plus years of starting experience, the dog isn't sure that is likely. does it mean they can't win with him? obviously not, as they already have. but, as the dog has said time and time again, many teams have won, and won even multiple super bowls with QBs that are not elite.

[JMFP]

....can manning still become an elite QB by the end of his career? possibly....

 

That's an encouraging step toward reality, Dog.

[ksm7]

That's an encouraging step toward reality, Dog.

 

the same can be said for every QB playing in the NFL...the dog is pretty sure elite status would be the minority of the population, otherwise, there would fail to be an elite...eli is not it. possibly? maybe. for the dog to say he could never develop into an elite NFL QB would be as naive as suggesting that he is elite right now. however, the window to "develop" at this point is closing. most elite players have set themselves ahead of the curve at this stage in their careers...so he does have his work cut out for him. the dog wouldn't have ordained brady elite after his first super bowl win, but certainly he has earned that over time. you choose to jump to those conclusions, so we'll see how it works out for you and eli in the end. the dog is pretty sure we all know already, but to be fair, we'll give him his time to keep "developing" through the last half of his career...the first half wasn't really elite, but then, the dog supposses you would argue otherwise...weakly.

[JMFP]

the same can be said for every QB playing in the NFL...the dog is pretty sure elite status would be the minority of the population, otherwise, there would fail to be an elite...eli is not it. possibly? maybe. for the dog to say he could never develop into an elite NFL QB would be as naive as suggesting that he is elite right now. however, the window to "develop" at this point is closing. most elite players have set themselves ahead of the curve at this stage in their careers...so he does have his work cut out for him. the dog wouldn't have ordained brady elite after his first super bowl win, but certainly he has earned that over time. you choose to jump to those conclusions, so we'll see how it works out for you and eli in the end. the dog is pretty sure we all know already, but to be fair, we'll give him his time to keep "developing" through the last half of his career...the first half wasn't really elite, but then, the dog supposses you would argue otherwise...weakly.

 

So, just to make sure I follow.....next season, if Eli makes it to the playoffs, and get's bounced by a 7-9 team, that would be a step toward "elite" status?

 

Given your criteria, which shifts according to different players, and their performances, I'm just trying to get my Dog Metrics established.

 

I must admit I've seen beauty pageants with a more consistent scoring model.

[ksm7]

So, just to make sure I follow.....next season, if Eli makes it to the playoffs, and get's bounced by a 7-9 team, that would be a step toward "elite" status?

 

Given your criteria, which shifts according to different players, and their performances, I'm just trying to get my Dog Metrics established.

 

I must admit I've seen beauty pageants with a more consistent scoring model.

 

funny, in all of this, you have never set a criteria for establishing QB eliteness other than super bowl wins, which you firmly declared when the giants won several years ago...the dog is just wondering why you keep at this? the crux of this argument is whether or not eli manning is an elite QB...you seem to be the only one still trying to make this argument, and now it has shifted in desperation to picking apart other QBs. really, are you going on the record to say that peyton manning is not elite? because through your responses in this thread, that sure is what it sounds like. so, bill walsh QB evaluator, what is your criteria? super bowl wins as it started as? of is there more to it than that? because the dog has stated many times it goes beyond just super bowl wins...beyond just great stats...all of which should be considered, but not what defines it. aside from a super bowl win, in which the defense made the difference, what has little eli in 6 + years a starter done to place him in the ranks of elway, montana, marino...etc...? do tell.

[fringe]

Eli would be considered "elite" if he were more accurate. Everything else, his game management, his study, his reads, his grit, his clutchness is on par with everyone else.

 

 

SInce he's suffered from this lack of accuracy since high school, I doubt he's going to suddenly become a pinpoint passer. Maybe if he gets laser surgery or something.

 

[JMFP]

funny, in all of this, you have never set a criteria for establishing QB eliteness other than super bowl wins, which you firmly declared when the giants won several years ago...the dog is just wondering why you keep at this? the crux of this argument is whether or not eli manning is an elite QB...you seem to be the only one still trying to make this argument, and now it has shifted in desperation to picking apart other QBs. really, are you going on the record to say that peyton manning is not elite? because through your responses in this thread, that sure is what it sounds like. so, bill walsh QB evaluator, what is your criteria? super bowl wins as it started as? of is there more to it than that? because the dog has stated many times it goes beyond just super bowl wins...beyond just great stats...all of which should be considered, but not what defines it. aside from a super bowl win, in which the defense made the difference, what has little eli in 6 + years a starter done to place him in the ranks of elway, montana, marino...etc...? do tell.

 

Actually, I have - unlike you - provided a criteria for an elite QB.

 

I'll let you take another stab at providing me with your criteria, and then, after you once again fail to produce, I'll begin the lecture.

 

I'll allow a short recess for you to gather your crayons.

[ksm7]

Actually, I have - unlike you - provided a criteria for an elite QB.

 

I'll let you take another stab at providing me with your criteria, and then, after you once again fail to produce, I'll begin the lecture.

 

I'll allow a short recess for you to gather your crayons.

 

the dog is growing weary of this...really, re-read everything and there you will find what you need. post your "criteria"...don't post your "criteria"...either way, eli is not an elite QB. the dog is finding it more and more boring to keep pointing out all the reasons little eli doesn't measure up to the elite QBs, past and present. what is funny is, the dog has time and time again said he is a solid starting NFL QB, and yet, you, and only you, seem to struggle with this in a way that has crossed into creepy fan status. the dog will define that: it says see joemorris4prez.

[JMFP]

the dog is growing weary of this...really, re-read everything and there you will find what you need. post your "criteria"...don't post your "criteria"...either way, eli is not an elite QB. the dog is finding it more and more boring to keep pointing out all the reasons little eli doesn't measure up to the elite QBs, past and present. what is funny is, the dog has time and time again said he is a solid starting NFL QB, and yet, you, and only you, seem to struggle with this in a way that has crossed into creepy fan status. the dog will define that: it says see joemorris4prez.

 

 

*sigh*

 

This is what I expected.

 

Prepare to be dazzled, Dog.

[JMFP]

Joe's Elite QB-o-meter

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elite

 

ELITE

e·lite or é·lite (-lt, -lt)

n. pl. elite or e·lites

1.

a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" (Times Literary Supplement).

b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

2. A size of type on a typewriter, equal to 12 characters per linear inch.

A couple quick comments should be made:

 

There is a difference between a Hall Of Famer player, and an elite player. A Hall of Famer stands out not only among his contemporary peers, but also stands out among all the players in history.

 

There is also a difference between an elite player, and an All-Pro season. A single great season is not enough to elevate a player to the top of his profession.

 

So, an "elite" player is someone who has been among the most skilled skilled players for more than a season, but not necessarily rising to the level of a Hall of Fame player. As the definition states, they are "superior", the "best" or "most skilled" among those who are currently playing.

 

The Best

 

In today's NFL, there are currently 2 QBs who are certainly bound for Canton....

 

• 
   
  
• Peyton Manning: Hall of Fame (ranked #8 on the greatest players of all time)
  
• Tom Brady: Hall of Fame (ranked #21 on the greatest players of all time)
  

 

http://top100.nfl.com/

 

A strong argument can be made that Drew Brees could be Hall of Fame bound, but I don't see him as a lock like Peyton or Tom are. And, using the Top 100 Football Players of all time to support my argument, he is not even listed.

 

• 
   
  
• Drew Brees: Arguably Hall of Fame / Elite +
  

 

So, setting aside that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees are a cut above the rest ("better than elite"), where does that leave the remaining QB's?

 

I would argue that you can divide the rest among "elite", "good", "average" or "poor".

 

So, with the Hall of Fame being "beyond elite", what is an "elite" QB?

 

I would say an "elite" QB would be a QB that a team builds their franchise around. It is a QB that has either demonstrated that they are capable of winning a championship, OR, over time (more than one season) have put together a body of work that would lead one to argue they are capable of making a run at a championship.

 

Elite QBs make their teams better - they are capable of beating more talented teams.

 

They are the most prized stock in a GM's trading arsenal - they would require blockbuster moves to change from team to team.

 

So, who would fall into my category of elite QB's?

 

Elite QBs

 

• 
   
  
• Philip Rivers: Elite (excellent career so far; terrific stats, winner)
  
• Rothlisberger: Elite (championships, wins, stats)
  
• Eli Manning: Elite (champsionship, wins, stats, durability)
  
• Romo: Elite (excellent career so far, terrific stats, winner)
  
• Aaron Rodgers: Elite (excellent career so far, terrific stats, winner)
  

 

Of course, this begs the question, what about "good" QBs? I would argue a "good QB" is one that helps his team.....they are capable of winning some games. If they have good support, they are likely to do well. They might be able to win a championship on an incredible team (e.g, McMahon on the Bears, Dilfer on the Ravens). They may be on their way up to elite status, but still need some more time to put it together. Or, they might be on the downside of their careers, and can no longer be considered the elite/franchise players that they once were.

 

Good QBs

 

• 
   
  
• Matt Ryan (moving into Elite range soon)
  
• Jay Cutler (very good stats, could be making a move up pending playoffs)
  
• Joe Flacco (good young QB, making the most of what he has, winner; on his way up)
  
• Mark Sanchez (good young QB, making the most of his opportunity, winner)
  
• Hasselbeck (on the down side of his career; was once elite).
  
• Vick (possibly Elite, but end of this season exposed flaws in game;)
  
• Donovan McNabb (once was elite, out of gas).
  
• Matt Schaub (good stats, but still hasn't won anything)
  
• Carson Palmer (once was elite, but too many losses to deserve consideration anymore)
  

 

I might have missed some additional "good" QBs, but I think you get my drift.

 

Ordinary and Poor QBs would represent the remainder, and I don't have the time or urge to list them.

 

The Dog's Problem

 

The Dog fails to understand the difference between being a Hall of Famer and an Elite Player. He fails to understand the difference between an Elite Player, and a Good Player. He fails to distinguish between a Pro Bowl season and a great career.

 

The Dog has a few other problems as well, but I'm just going to limit this to quarterback study.

[ksm7]

Joe's Elite QB-o-meter

 

[/color]

A couple quick comments should be made:

 

There is a difference between a Hall Of Famer player, and an elite player. A Hall of Famer stands out not only among his contemporary peers, but also stands out among all the players in history.

 

There is also a difference between an elite player, and an All-Pro season. A single great season is not enough to elevate a player to the top of his profession.

 

So, an "elite" player is someone who has been among the most skilled skilled players for more than a season, but not necessarily rising to the level of a Hall of Fame player. As the definition states, they are "superior", the "best" or "most skilled" among those who are currently playing.

 

The Best

 

In today's NFL, there are currently 2 QBs who are certainly bound for Canton....

 

• 
   
  
• Peyton Manning: Hall of Fame (ranked #8 on the greatest players of all time)
  
• Tom Brady: Hall of Fame (ranked #21 on the greatest players of all time)
  

 

http://top100.nfl.com/

 

A strong argument can be made that Drew Brees could be Hall of Fame bound, but I don't see him as a lock like Peyton or Tom are. And, using the Top 100 Football Players of all time to support my argument, he is not even listed.

 

• 
   
  
• Drew Brees: Arguably Hall of Fame / Elite +
  

 

So, setting aside that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees are a cut above the rest ("better than elite"), where does that leave the remaining QB's?

 

 

 

HA HA HA HA HA...the dog didn't go any further...didn't read one line farther than what is highlighted above...really joe? seriously, you are better than this...too funny. you go back at the dog thread after thread for saying that brady, peyton manning and drew brees are elite and eli isn't, and then you turn around and state that, wait, everyone hold your breath, you say that brady, peyton and brees are actually "better than elite" while little eli is just elite...all you did was change the titles of the catergorization...the dog has argued that eli isn't elite, and doesn't compare to those three QBs and falls into the next set of QBs, and you argued and argued, and now, since you have no support from anyone here that eli is elite, you try this little stunt that sadly is as lame as something bigblue would try....ha ha ha...maybe tomorrow when the dog stops laughing the rest of your little ramble will be read and responded to...maybe...ha ha ha ha ha...

[Nas]

HA HA HA HA HA...the dog didn't go any further...didn't read one line farther than what is highlighted above...really joe? seriously, you are better than this...too funny. you go back at the dog thread after thread for saying that brady, peyton manning and drew brees are elite and eli isn't, and then you turn around and state that, wait, everyone hold your breath, you say that brady, peyton and brees are actually "better than elite" while little eli is just elite...all you did was change the titles of the catergorization...the dog has argued that eli isn't elite, and doesn't compare to those three QBs and falls into the next set of QBs, and you argued and argued, and now, since you have no support from anyone here that eli is elite, you try this little stunt that sadly is as lame as something bigblue would try....ha ha ha...maybe tomorrow when the dog stops laughing the rest of your little ramble will be read and responded to...maybe...ha ha ha ha ha...

 

Dog,

 

Say what you will about Eli.. I understand he's not elite to you.. or even by definition.. but he's elite in our eyes. Eli had another good season.. a great season if not for the unusually high number of turnovers and the FACT that our WR corp was freakishly depleted. Not just is Eli elite now, he will prove that to you and to his detractors in this upcoming season.

[fringe]

Dog,

 

Say what you will about Eli.. I understand he's not elite to you.. or even by definition.. but he's elite in our eyes. Eli had another good season.. a great season if not for the unusually high number of turnovers and the FACT that our WR corp was freakishly depleted. Not just is Eli elite now, he will prove that to you and to his detractors in this upcoming season.

 

why don't you speak for yourself? you are not the voice of giants nation. state your own opinion. don't speak for other people.

[Virginia Giant]

HA HA HA HA HA...the dog didn't go any further...didn't read one line farther than what is highlighted above...really joe? seriously, you are better than this...too funny. you go back at the dog thread after thread for saying that brady, peyton manning and drew brees are elite and eli isn't, and then you turn around and state that, wait, everyone hold your breath, you say that brady, peyton and brees are actually "better than elite" while little eli is just elite...all you did was change the titles of the catergorization...the dog has argued that eli isn't elite, and doesn't compare to those three QBs and falls into the next set of QBs, and you argued and argued, and now, since you have no support from anyone here that eli is elite, you try this little stunt that sadly is as lame as something bigblue would try....ha ha ha...maybe tomorrow when the dog stops laughing the rest of your little ramble will be read and responded to...maybe...ha ha ha ha ha...

No, you said Eli was no better than Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler. You also said that Rivers, Rodgers and Rothlisberger are clearly better than Eli, yet you also said Rivers isn't and elite qb.

[BlueInCanada]

Dog,

 

Say what you will about Eli.. I understand he's not elite to you.. or even by definition.. but he's elite in our eyes. Eli had another good season.. a great season if not for the unusually high number of turnovers and the FACT that our WR corp was freakishly depleted. Not just is Eli elite now, he will prove that to you and to his detractors in this upcoming season.

 

Not mine.

 

But Nas makes a point, some here do think that Eli is elite or is heading that way and really who's to say their opinion is wrong?