Pretty Obvious.

[Sephiroth]

Jerry Reese just DOESN'T value linebackers.

 

I think the earliest he's ever taken one is round 4.

 

It's a shame, really. Hard-hitting LBs are pretty much a Giants staple.

[BlueInCanada]

I dont know maybe this Jones pick was a necessity, I mean CC is out the door and Johnson soon with him. For all we know Phillips days of player are done so we took some insurance and a starter if Phillips is done with.

 

I like the DT pick, just a big SoB who can take up a double team leaving Osi/Kiwi/Tuck/JPP one on one. The JPP pick is still a head scratcher but it's growing on me.

 

The way I think about it is this, before the draft it's obvious the coaches sit down and analyze the needs of the team and then report it up to Reese and Co. Well maybe when Coughlin sat down with Gilly and Fewell, Gilly probably didnt have much to say other then some O-linemen and maybe an RB but for all we know Fewell was saying "I can work with the LBs we have, get me a pass rush"

 

I mean with us not trading up/down for a LB tells me somewhere along the line the coaches said "We can work with the LBs we have"

[RandolphScott]

Jerry Reese just DOESN'T value linebackers.

 

I think the earliest he's ever taken one is round 4.

 

It's a shame, really. Hard-hitting LBs are pretty much a Giants staple.

 

 

Clint Sintim was a 2nd rounder last year...whoops!

[JMFP]

Jerry Reese just DOESN'T value linebackers.

 

I think the earliest he's ever taken one is round 4.

 

It's a shame, really. Hard-hitting LBs are pretty much a Giants staple.

 

Agreed.

 

I could understand getting JPP when McClain was taken.

 

But letting Sean Lee go - to the fucking Cowboys of all places - makes me sick.

[fishgutmartyr]

I'm sorry, this is just assinine. We draft a safety that in a worst case scenario is a 3rd stringer, while we have huge, gaping holes at LB? The only pick I've liked so far was the DT, but even that is tainted knowing that Lee was still around.

 

We completely overdid it with safeties this year. Even if somehow Phillips doesn't come back, we still would have had Rolle and Grant, and there was another safety on the practice squad. Johnson wasn't a total liability in 2007-'08, and so long as he wasn't the main guy, he would have been fine.

 

We're back to where we were last year: great Dline on paper, but once injuries hit, we don't have LBs that can compensate, so opponents will run on us. One LB that might be able to cover a TE. Another that might be able to, if he can actually stay on the field (Wilkinson). God help us if the LBs get injuries this year, or maybe not, since we'll apparently we'll be starting backup quality players anyway.

 

Fuck, I'm reminiscing about the ballyhooed days of Danny Clark...

[JMFP]

I'm sorry, this is just assinine. We draft a safety that in a worst case scenario is a 3rd stringer, while we have huge, gaping holes at LB? The only pick I've liked so far was the DT, but even that is tainted knowing that Lee was still around.

 

We completely overdid it with safeties this year. Even if somehow Phillips doesn't come back, we still would have had Rolle and Grant, and there was another safety on the practice squad. Johnson wasn't a total liability in 2007-'08, and so long as he wasn't the main guy, he would have been fine.

 

We're back to where we were last year: great Dline on paper, but once injuries hit, we don't have LBs that can compensate, so opponents will run on us. One LB that might be able to cover a TE. Another that might be able to, if he can actually stay on the field (Wilkinson). God help us if the LBs get injuries this year, or maybe not, since we'll apparently we'll be starting backup quality players anyway.

 

Fuck, I'm reminiscing about the ballyhooed days of Danny Clark...

 

I wish I could talk you down, but I've got nothing.

 

Whoever we get from here out at LB is pretty useless in my opinion.....the late rounds are for offensive projects, at least in my opinion.

 

Maybe we'll trade for a linebacker...actually fuck it, I'm not even going to talk about the position anymore.

[BronxRik]

I wish I could talk you down, but I've got nothing.

 

Whoever we get from here out at LB is pretty useless in my opinion.....the late rounds are for offensive projects, at least in my opinion.

Maybe we'll trade for a linebacker...actually fuck it, I'm not even going to talk about the position anymore.

 

Kirk Morrison will be a Giant before training camp.

[fishgutmartyr]

Kirk Morrison will be a Giant before training camp.

We better get somebody because not a one of these guys has really shown anything. Do we even have a backup for Sintim? Say DeOssie and I'll cry...

[RandolphScott]

I'm sorry, this is just assinine. We draft a safety that in a worst case scenario is a 3rd stringer, while we have huge, gaping holes at LB? The only pick I've liked so far was the DT, but even that is tainted knowing that Lee was still around.

 

We completely overdid it with safeties this year. Even if somehow Phillips doesn't come back, we still would have had Rolle and Grant, and there was another safety on the practice squad. Johnson wasn't a total liability in 2007-'08, and so long as he wasn't the main guy, he would have been fine.

 

We're back to where we were last year: great Dline on paper, but once injuries hit, we don't have LBs that can compensate, so opponents will run on us. One LB that might be able to cover a TE. Another that might be able to, if he can actually stay on the field (Wilkinson). God help us if the LBs get injuries this year, or maybe not, since we'll apparently we'll be starting backup quality players anyway.

 

Fuck, I'm reminiscing about the ballyhooed days of Danny Clark...

 

 

Seems pretty clear they are going Best Player Available.

 

The Chad Jones pick means, see ya Michael Johnson...I won't miss you.

 

By the way here is what Marc Ross said about the Mike line backers:

 

Q: How would you rate the middle linebacker class in this draft? Is it not that strong?

 

A: I wouldn't say that. Obviously McClain and then there may have been a big drop off. I don't want to say it was weak but for us we didn't have a lot of guys at high value there.

[Sephiroth]

Clint Sintim was a 2nd rounder last year...whoops!

 

Well, um... Jerry Reese only drafted him because he THOUGHT he was gonna be a DE. Yeah, uh... that's it.

 

 

I'm sorry, this is just assinine. We draft a safety that in a worst case scenario is a 3rd stringer, while we have huge, gaping holes at LB? The only pick I've liked so far was the DT, but even that is tainted knowing that Lee was still around.

 

We completely overdid it with safeties this year. Even if somehow Phillips doesn't come back, we still would have had Rolle and Grant, and there was another safety on the practice squad. Johnson wasn't a total liability in 2007-'08, and so long as he wasn't the main guy, he would have been fine.

ear

We're back to where we were last year: great Dline on paper, but once injuries hit, we don't have LBs that can compensate, so opponents will run on us. One LB that might be able to cover a TE. Another that might be able to, if he can actually stay on the field (Wilkinson). God help us if the LBs get injuries this year, or maybe not, since we'll apparently we'll be starting backup quality players anyway.

 

Fuck, I'm reminiscing about the ballyhooed days of Danny Clark...

 

I feel your pain man. This is fucking retarded. WHO is going to play the MIKE backer for us this year?

[fishgutmartyr]

Seems pretty clear they are going Best Player Available.

 

The Chad Jones pick means, see ya Michael Johnson...I won't miss you.

 

By the way here is what Marc Ross said about the Mike line backers:

We could have picked up another safety tomorrow, and it would have been fine. I wouldn't even be this pissed if they had gotten an offensive lineman. Shit, even a running back, considering the walking wounded we worked with last year. But this season, the only thing Jones is going to be is a special teams member, more likely than not.

 

Great that Ross had an opinion on Mikes in this draft, but they knew the player situation for months now. If they didn't like the options in the draft, they could have picked up a Free Agent or five. At least keep Pierce until we're sure he's replaced. Right now, we're heading into the season with Goff and Wilkinson as our answers to MLB. If you can look at the list of backups at linebacker and not break into a cold sweat, you're a better man than I.

 

As things stand, we don't even have a full complement of backers. Clark and Pierce haven't been replaced even with bodies.

 

If we didn't shell out bucks for Rolle and Grant, I'd be OK with this. But the fact is that we did spend the money, did nothing with all the other spots we need help in during FA, and are now drafting yet another safety.

 

So far this draft we've picked up two players on premium picks that won't even see the field except for spot roles during the season. We'll lose Tollefson this season, and probably either Osi or Kiwi next year: which means we'll probably have to spend another pick on DE next year, thanks to this draft. That's assuming JPP even pans out.

[RandolphScott]

Don't know why you guys think a MLB who is drafted in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds are going to outperfom guys that have been drafted in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds.

 

Its pretty clear its a case of the grass is greener on the other side, without actually knowing how green the other side really is....

[boohyah]

The only thing I can think of was that once McClain went off the board, the Giants threw the towel in because they felt, as did many other teams, that McLain was the one rookie most ready to step in and be the leader of a defense. because when you think about it, the middle linebacker spot is so much more inportant now that they are more than likely to call the defensive plays out there and audible. Our defense was shit overall last year, but they were beyond shitty without Pierce. Then guys like Spiller etd, the guys that the Giants probably had lined up, they go off the board and the Giants end up with their 5/6th guy on the chart.

 

But I really think this could be a lot worse. Next year, there's a very good chance Kiwi is gone. If Osi doesn't rebound, he could be also. This team could get thin on the line very quickly (Cofield and Alford are no certs to stay past next year either). In the first 2 rounds, we got depth in both positions,

[fishgutmartyr]

Don't know why you guys think a MLB who is drafted in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds are going to outperfom guys that have been drafted in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds.

 

Its pretty clear its a case of the grass is greener on the other side, without actually knowing how green the other side really is....

I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't think I'm obsessing over LBs. As I said, there are other positions that could use upgrading: OG, RB, LB pop immediately to mind. DE and Safety (at least, not after free agency) do not.

 

The only thing I can think of was that once McClain went off the board, the Giants threw the towel in because they felt, as did many other teams, that McLain was the one rookie most ready to step in and be the leader of a defense. because when you think about it, the middle linebacker spot is so much more inportant now that they are more than likely to call the defensive plays out there and audible. Our defense was shit overall last year, but they were beyond shitty without Pierce. Then guys like Spiller etd, the guys that the Giants probably had lined up, they go off the board and the Giants end up with their 5/6th guy on the chart.

 

But I really think this could be a lot worse. Next year, there's a very good chance Kiwi is gone. If Osi doesn't rebound, he could be also. This team could get thin on the line very quickly (Cofield and Alford are no certs to stay past next year either). In the first 2 rounds, we got depth in both positions,

 

I understand what you're saying, Boo. But if MLB is so important, and we stunk it up after Pierce was gone, why are we looking like we're sticking with what we have?

 

One of the two DEs will be gone. If Osi doesn't come back, we keep Kiwi. Tollefson (who is a decent backup) will be gone shortly, thanks to this pick; which means we're drafting another DE next year anyway. I simply don't see how this move makes us stronger down the road, unless this guy is the second coming of Strahan.

 

I'm betting Cofield is gone after this season. He let it slip that he has the same knee problem Phillips has, so it would be stupid to keep him over Alford; who also is an asset on special teams. I actually like the DT pick--we need help pushing back on the pocket.

[Storm]

I'm sorry, this is just assinine. We draft a safety that in a worst case scenario is a 3rd stringer, while we have huge, gaping holes at LB? The only pick I've liked so far was the DT, but even that is tainted knowing that Lee was still around.

 

We completely overdid it with safeties this year. Even if somehow Phillips doesn't come back, we still would have had Rolle and Grant, and there was another safety on the practice squad. Johnson wasn't a total liability in 2007-'08, and so long as he wasn't the main guy, he would have been fine.

 

We're back to where we were last year: great Dline on paper, but once injuries hit, we don't have LBs that can compensate, so opponents will run on us. One LB that might be able to cover a TE. Another that might be able to, if he can actually stay on the field (Wilkinson). God help us if the LBs get injuries this year, or maybe not, since we'll apparently we'll be starting backup quality players anyway.

 

Fuck, I'm reminiscing about the ballyhooed days of Danny Clark...

 

Yah, I'm picturing running backs taking dump off passes 10-15 yards down the field per play and picking up key 3rd downs when our pass rush just doesn't quite get there...just like the last couple years...

 

With the Pierre Paul pick, you can have as many pass rushers as your heart desires, but they aren't going to get to the quarterback every attempt...and we don't have anyone to cover a running back when the QB gets flustered because the pass rush is almost there and dumps it off to the back. It's self-defeating behavior at times...and I saw it happen at least 3 or 4 times per game last year.

[fishgutmartyr]

Yah, I'm picturing running backs taking dump off passes 10-15 yards down the field per play and picking up key 3rd downs when our pass rush just doesn't quite get there...just like the last couple years...

 

With the Pierre Paul pick, you can have as many pass rushers as your heart desires, but they aren't going to get to the quarterback every attempt...and we don't have anyone to cover a running back when the QB gets flustered because the pass rush is almost there and dumps it off to the back. It's self-defeating behavior at times...and I saw it happen at least 3 or 4 times per game last year.

That's exactly why Pierce looked so bad--the whole 3rd down strategy played directly into his weakness: coverage. I can't remember the last time that wasn't a weakness with this team.

 

And it will only get worse towards the backend of the season, when the linemen inevitably get dinged-up and get to the QB less and less often. It's not really that surprising that we get weaker as the season progresses, considering the configuration of the D. Nor was it particularly surprising that the one season when we didn't have injuries to our line, we won the SB. (Kiwi was a LB that year.)

[Treehugger]

I guess they think Goff has more upside than anyone left on the board after McClain.

[Allstarjim]

Phillip Dillard... he was alright on a good defense last year in Nebraska. Of course, playing behind Suh. I don't know, they finally draft a mike backer but I think at this point the good ones are gone. I'd have liked to see them get a corner, guard, or running back but admittedly, I couldn't tell you who they should've picked. I have no expectation that Dillard will ever be anything more than a backup. And I mean a backup to Goff. As far as I'm concerned, he's buried under the depth chart and I don't ever see him climb up it, but you really never now.

[BleedinBlue]

With the Pierre Paul pick, you can have as many pass rushers as your heart desires, but they aren't going to get to the quarterback every attempt...and we don't have anyone to cover a running back when the QB gets flustered because the pass rush is almost there and dumps it off to the back. It's self-defeating behavior at times...and I saw it happen at least 3 or 4 times per game last year.

Maybe can can drop Pierre-Paul back to linebacker. Then it would give him time to do a cartwheel and follow that with a skyflying backflip over the offensive line and flatten the quarterback! That'd be awesome!

[Treehugger]

Maybe can can drop Pierre-Paul back to linebacker. Then it would give him time to do a cartwheel and follow that with a skyflying backflip over the offensive line and flatten the quarterback! That'd be awesome!

...followed by ACL surgery. He needs to cut that shit out.

[boohyah]

I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't think I'm obsessing over LBs. As I said, there are other positions that could use upgrading: OG, RB, LB pop immediately to mind. DE and Safety (at least, not after free agency) do not.

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying, Boo. But if MLB is so important, and we stunk it up after Pierce was gone, why are we looking like we're sticking with what we have?

 

One of the two DEs will be gone. If Osi doesn't come back, we keep Kiwi. Tollefson (who is a decent backup) will be gone shortly, thanks to this pick; which means we're drafting another DE next year anyway. I simply don't see how this move makes us stronger down the road, unless this guy is the second coming of Strahan.

 

I'm betting Cofield is gone after this season. He let it slip that he has the same knee problem Phillips has, so it would be stupid to keep him over Alford; who also is an asset on special teams. I actually like the DT pick--we need help pushing back on the pocket.

 

Don't get me wrong Fish, MLB is huge. I've ranted on this before. But pretty much all were saying that McClain was the stud who was pro ready and there was a real drop off after him. After watching Mc Clain some last year, I have to say that's true, the guy was off the charts and in another year, a guy this good could have gone higher.

 

But i think the way they have to go is free agency, and Morrison in Oakland is probably expendable now, in fact rumors were going around that he might be a good fit for the Giants before the draft. He's got experience, he can call a defense and he's decent enough. Is he great, no!. But I believe playing middle linebackers this days is a whole different deal now with calling plays, you need a smart guy out there and rookies have to be almost ready to go. Even if we kept Pierce, we'd have to surround him with some serious talent, because it's clear he's gone back a bit. I'm actually more pissed off abiout the lack of outside linebacker interest. I thought we could have bitten on Spikes and moved him to outside linebacker. I think we tend to forget that we are seriously thin out there also. Sintim may be decent, but I sure don't want to go into this season again hearing about Gerris Wilkerson's upside again.

 

There's going to be some movement after this draft that's for sure, hopefully Reese isn't finshed moving yet. I hope for rounds 4-7, we at least address those areas and kicker and running back.

 

I hope the Cofield situation is not the case, because I truly believe that Cofield and Alford have to be given the chance to start, Alford is more of a pass rusher and Cofield run stopper. I'd really like to see them get a chance and have this kid Joseph and canty back them up.

[BlueInCanada]

Don't get me wrong Fish, MLB is huge. I've ranted on this before. But pretty much all were saying that McClain was the stud who was pro ready and there was a real drop off after him. After watching Mc Clain some last year, I have to say that's true, the guy was off the charts and in another year, a guy this good could have gone higher.

 

But i think the way they have to go is free agency, and Morrison in Oakland is probably expendable now, in fact rumors were going around that he might be a good fit for the Giants before the draft. He's got experience, he can call a defense and he's decent enough. Is he great, no!. But I believe playing middle linebackers this days is a whole different deal now with calling plays, you need a smart guy out there and rookies have to be almost ready to go. Even if we kept Pierce, we'd have to surround him with some serious talent, because it's clear he's gone back a bit. I'm actually more pissed off abiout the lack of outside linebacker interest. I thought we could have bitten on Spikes and moved him to outside linebacker. I think we tend to forget that we are seriously thin out there also. Sintim may be decent, but I sure don't want to go into this season again hearing about Gerris Wilkerson's upside again.

 

There's going to be some movement after this draft that's for sure, hopefully Reese isn't finshed moving yet. I hope for rounds 4-7, we at least address those areas and kicker and running back.

 

I hope the Cofield situation is not the case, because I truly believe that Cofield and Alford have to be given the chance to start, Alford is more of a pass rusher and Cofield run stopper. I'd really like to see them get a chance and have this kid Joseph and canty back them up.

 

Morrison is a Jag now, traded in the draft.

[Allstarjim]

The Giants really need to address CB. They have only 3 DB's that were not undrafted free agents or signed off of a practice squad. Not knocking Bruce Johnson, but I think they can get better at the position and get someone in there that will push for that 4th CB spot.

 

I'm good with Goff/Blackburn at MLB for this year and see what happens. We were beat up front and in the secondary last year. Yes, getting McClain or Weatherspoon would've made our defense better and provided a big lift. But with the players we got in the first 3 rounds, and with the signings of Rolle and Grant, I think we have fixed those problems. But should the injury bug creep up on Webster or Ross again (and it does quite frequently with Ross) we need one more quality corner to match up. Perhaps Chad Jones or Rolle will play the slot in a nickel package. I know Rolle has the skills, and we can still put 2 good safeties back there in that situation.

 

Thanks for reading my musings.

[Treehugger]

Aren't Boley and Wilkinson pretty much prototypical Tampa-2 OLBs? I don't really see how Sintim fits. He seems like a 3-4 OLB to me, not that we've seen enough of him to really tell yet.

[boohyah]

Morrison is a Jag now, traded in the draft.

 

"bubble bursts"

 

How's the CFL for linebackers Blue?