Missed the boat on Marshall

[Nas]

nothin new here- just waiting for the draft.

 

True dat

[BIGBLUE01]

by your team, you mean the dolphins?

 

I thought it was the Bills?

[Allstarjim]

I know there was the infamous Brandon Marshall thread, so I'm not going to dig up the "why's" of the benefits of signing him. But you can't deny if he was offered to us for 2 second round picks, that we should have grabbed him. That's cheap, you can't question that. The contract is a different matter, but the picks.....a 30 overall for Marshall? That's insane. I wasn't criticizing Reese, I was saying that IF it was found out that we were in the mix and passed on it, fans would go nuts.

 

You can't compare going after McNabb when they've got Peyton, to going after Marshall when we've got Smith. Smith's very good, but Marshall is better.

 

 

You absolutely CAN question that. You are getting quality starting players in the 2nd round. We got Beatty and Sintim last year. Jury is somewhat out on both of them, but Beatty has shown promise that he is a future starting tackle. Sintim is likewise thought of highly. There are a lot of 2nd round picks that pan out handsomely, I think Marshall himself was one.

 

If you're just talking about talent alone, then MAYBE that is a good deal. When you factor in the PERSON you are importing into the locker room, Rik, then I think the Dolphins gave up too much.

 

I'd rather build this roster through the draft than overpay for a terrible teammate who has a pattern of high-risk, bad behavior. Mark my words, the Broncos will be better off with those two draft picks, just as we were with trading Shockey.

[Virginia Giant]

You absolutely CAN question that. You are getting quality starting players in the 2nd round. We got Beatty and Sintim last year. Jury is somewhat out on both of them, but Beatty has shown promise that he is a future starting tackle. Sintim is likewise thought of highly. There are a lot of 2nd round picks that pan out handsomely, I think Marshall himself was one.

 

If you're just talking about talent alone, then MAYBE that is a good deal. When you factor in the PERSON you are importing into the locker room, Rik, then I think the Dolphins gave up too much.

 

I'd rather build this roster through the draft than overpay for a terrible teammate who has a pattern of high-risk, bad behavior. Mark my words, the Broncos will be better off with those two draft picks, just as we were with trading Shockey.

 

We won a super bowl with our head case WR, since then......

 

I'm don't with the whole "better locker room fit" shit, it sounds real nice but it's talent that wins games, and every great player the league has seen has had an ego, and many have even been considered cancers or whatnot. Still, many super bowls were won with headcase players on the field.

 

As far as shockey, his production fell dramatically and he was injured all the time. He was a head case that also turned out to be injury prione and pretty much mediocre. I loved him as much as anybody, but he was an above average TE most of his career. Marshall is one of 3 or 4 best WR's in the game today, and is like 26 years old.

[Mr. P]

i wouldnt give up 2 2nd rounders for marshall simply because our WR situation is a strength right now. no need to give up those picks when WR isnt a need.

 

also add in the contract we would have to sign him to and my answer is a big NO.

[fringe]

You absolutely CAN question that. You are getting quality starting players in the 2nd round. We got Beatty and Sintim last year. Jury is somewhat out on both of them, but Beatty has shown promise that he is a future starting tackle. Sintim is likewise thought of highly. There are a lot of 2nd round picks that pan out handsomely, I think Marshall himself was one.

 

If you're just talking about talent alone, then MAYBE that is a good deal. When you factor in the PERSON you are importing into the locker room, Rik, then I think the Dolphins gave up too much.

 

I'd rather build this roster through the draft than overpay for a terrible teammate who has a pattern of high-risk, bad behavior. Mark my words, the Broncos will be better off with those two draft picks, just as we were with trading Shockey.

 

when? i say they don't make the playoffs this year.

[Sephiroth]

I thought it was the Bills?

 

Nope.

 

Giants front office came crawling back to us when they couldn't sell out the stadium... so we bought PSLs...on OUR terms, not theirs.

[Virginia Giant]

i wouldnt give up 2 2nd rounders for marshall simply because our WR situation is a strength right now. no need to give up those picks when WR isnt a need.

 

also add in the contract we would have to sign him to and my answer is a big NO.

I keep hearing how great our wr's are, and I agree a couple are terrific, in their way. Nicks is still largley unproven in terms of being a deep threat/go to receiver. Smith is great in his role, but isn't the kind of guy who opens up the field. The rest are still projects/hopefuls for now. Adding a guy like Marshall, for a couple second round picks is a great move no matter who you have catching balls already.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but with this being an uncapped year, couldn't teams just front load the hell out of contracts? Say of the 50 mill he got, give him 30 the first year and stretch 20 out over the next 3 or 4?

[BlueInCanada]

Nope.

 

Giants front office came crawling back to us when they couldn't sell out the stadium... so we bought PSLs...on OUR terms, not theirs.

 

Go back to the Bills you band-wagon jumping faggot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J/K

[Allstarjim]

when? i say they don't make the playoffs this year.

 

 

They missed the playoffs with him, too, hence their draft position. This is a team that is rebuilding. The draft is a good way to do that, and 2 second rounders will go a long way in achieving that end.

 

And VG, he is talented for sure. But you can't help win a SuperBowl when you are suspended (or when you shoot yourself in the leg). Marshall has shown he's too immature... does anyone really think he's going to all of a sudden be a team player and not get into further trouble with his team or the league? And you can't even compare Plax and Marshall. Plax is an angel compared to Marshall.

[fringe]

They missed the playoffs with him, too, hence their draft position. This is a team that is rebuilding. The draft is a good way to do that, and 2 second rounders will go a long way in achieving that end.

 

hence the unanswered question, when? this is a win now league. by the time those 2 picks help them, something else will crumble (probably their coach, knowing the belicheck legacy)

marshall had to go because he couldn't get along with hoodie jr. but it makes denver worse.

[Mr. P]

I keep hearing how great our wr's are, and I agree a couple are terrific, in their way. Nicks is still largley unproven in terms of being a deep threat/go to receiver. Smith is great in his role, but isn't the kind of guy who opens up the field. The rest are still projects/hopefuls for now. Adding a guy like Marshall, for a couple second round picks is a great move no matter who you have catching balls already.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but with this being an uncapped year, couldn't teams just front load the hell out of contracts? Say of the 50 mill he got, give him 30 the first year and stretch 20 out over the next 3 or 4?

 

i see what you are saying, but me personally if i were gm of the giants, would be pleased enough with our wr's where i wouldnt want to give 2 2nd rounders for a wr.

[Bigblue25]

It's a joke, right?

 

Mc Nabb has said and done all the right things... essentially he's been a boy scout in Philly, where the fans kill and eat you if you fart in the wrong place.

 

Here is Marshall's criminal rap sheet... and mind you, that's just the things he's done OUTSIDE THE LAW. He's a locker-room nightmare and a pain in the ass to boot (not catching passing during camp last year? Kicking the ball, anyone? Cutting your hand while "wrestling" with your brother?)

 

Seriously, BigBlue? Comparing Mc Nabb to Marshall?

 

McNabb was an awful teammate there were even Eagles players saying so after they get rid of T.O, thought that T.O was not the problem but DMac was couldn't share the stage with another superstar,and DMac went on and on and on about T.o , same thing happened last with DeSean Jackson. I don't even want to mention that little phone stunt McNabb pulled if Owens or Marshall pulled something like that they would of been suspeneded four games and taking an infinite amount of bashing on ESPN, but McNabb did it they thought it was hilarious.

[Nas]

hence the unanswered question, when? this is a win now league. by the time those 2 picks help them, something else will crumble (probably their coach, knowing the belicheck legacy)

marshall had to go because he couldn't get along with hoodie jr. but it makes denver worse.

 

I don't think the NFL is a win-now league. It's build... mature.. dominate.. then when all of the winning get to the player's head and each want huge contracts, teams crumble... then the cycle starts again.

 

I'm with Jim. The Broncos are rebuilding. The dolphins overpaid. The Giants are pretty set at WR. And the fucking draft is taking forever to get here.

[fringe]

I don't think the NFL is a win-now league. It's build... mature.. dominate.. then when all of the winning get to the player's head and each want huge contracts, teams crumble... then the cycle starts again.

 

I'm with Jim. The Broncos are rebuilding. The dolphins overpaid. The Giants are pretty set at WR. And the fucking draft is taking forever to get here.

 

quelle suprise....

[Allstarjim]

If you believe in "win at all costs" maybe you consider this move more. But the Giants, with some exceptions, have taken character into a greater account than most teams. I believe strong character and intelligence overcomes physical talent in the long run. Of course, you have to have some physical talent, too!

 

But one of the reasons I love being a Giants fan is that they don't typically go after low-character guys even if their physical talents are so impressive. None of that physical talent will help when Brandon Marshall isn't playing because of suspension. The physical talent doesn't help when the player gives up on the team and starts dogging it. High character players, in my humble opinion, was one of the driving factors in us winning the Super Bowl. People will inevitably bring up Plaxico, which is fine. But when we signed Plax it was not apparent that he would get into so much trouble. Also, I believe Plaxico does have some character, it's the intelligence aspect I question. But the core of that team on both sides of the ball was not only very intelligent, but also high character guys. Think of Strahan, Tuck, Pierce, Kawika Mitchell, our offensive line, Jacobs, Amani Toomer, and the embodiment of all these attributes, Eli Manning.

 

This organization has a history. It's a proud franchise. To me, signing players like T.O. or Brandon Marshall goes against the Giant ethos. It's what the Cowboys do, not what we do. It's what the Raiders do, not us. I believe firmly that by steering clear of such malcontents and criminals, you set yourself up for greater long term success, rather than just a quick fix that burns hot for a while, before blowing up in your face.

 

I can respect why some posters would want Marshall. He may be the best receiver in football right now. He is ridiculously talented. But I could not root for him the same way I do Eli or Hakeem Nicks, or Justin Tuck.

 

Just something to consider.

[Virginia Giant]

If you believe in "win at all costs" maybe you consider this move more. But the Giants, with some exceptions, have taken character into a greater account than most teams. I believe strong character and intelligence overcomes physical talent in the long run. Of course, you have to have some physical talent, too!

 

But one of the reasons I love being a Giants fan is that they don't typically go after low-character guys even if their physical talents are so impressive. None of that physical talent will help when Brandon Marshall isn't playing because of suspension. The physical talent doesn't help when the player gives up on the team and starts dogging it. High character players, in my humble opinion, was one of the driving factors in us winning the Super Bowl. People will inevitably bring up Plaxico, which is fine. But when we signed Plax it was not apparent that he would get into so much trouble. Also, I believe Plaxico does have some character, it's the intelligence aspect I question. But the core of that team on both sides of the ball was not only very intelligent, but also high character guys. Think of Strahan, Tuck, Pierce, Kawika Mitchell, our offensive line, Jacobs, Amani Toomer, and the embodiment of all these attributes, Eli Manning.

 

This organization has a history. It's a proud franchise. To me, signing players like T.O. or Brandon Marshall goes against the Giant ethos. It's what the Cowboys do, not what we do. It's what the Raiders do, not us. I believe firmly that by steering clear of such malcontents and criminals, you set yourself up for greater long term success, rather than just a quick fix that burns hot for a while, before blowing up in your face.

 

I can respect why some posters would want Marshall. He may be the best receiver in football right now. He is ridiculously talented. But I could not root for him the same way I do Eli or Hakeem Nicks, or Justin Tuck.

 

Just something to consider.

 

 

The one thing I have to keep coming back to is Giants with Plax, anmd Giants without. You can say losing Strahan hurt, and it did, you can say the oline has gotten older, and it has. But the loss of Plax was felt immediately. The Giants were imho the clear favorites the year Plax got hurt. 11 and one I believe and ended up loses 3 of the last 4 regular season games as well as the first playoff game. As soon as we lost plax we went from favorites to worst team in the playoffs. And losing a star player will hurt anytime right after the fact, but it carried over to last year too.

 

And I'm not so sure the signs weren't there eith Plax, my memory is fuzzy but I'm pretty sure Pittsburg was happy to see him go.

[ksm7]

They missed the playoffs with him, too, hence their draft position. This is a team that is rebuilding. The draft is a good way to do that, and 2 second rounders will go a long way in achieving that end.

 

And VG, he is talented for sure. But you can't help win a SuperBowl when you are suspended (or when you shoot yourself in the leg). Marshall has shown he's too immature... does anyone really think he's going to all of a sudden be a team player and not get into further trouble with his team or the league? And you can't even compare Plax and Marshall. Plax is an angel compared to Marshall.

 

the dog thinks that is debatable. To date Marshall was arrested in college for an assualt. He has had a DUI once, and was pulled over once for making an illegal lane change that resulted in him not having his license with him. aside from that he has had 3 domestic violence charges (two were dropped, one he was found not guilty of), and god knows the giants seem to have no issue signing players with domestic violence on their resumes...

 

seriously, the dog has to agree with VG. Marshall is a talent and two 2nd round picks is a steal. the risk exists for just about every player anymore (sadly) that potential suspension due to behaviors is a possibility. the dog also read (around a year ago when he was having issues with mcdaniels) that the players love him as a person. not sure how accurate that was, but who knows...

[Sephiroth]

McNabb was an awful teammate there were even Eagles players saying so after they get rid of T.O, thought that T.O was not the problem but DMac was couldn't share the stage with another superstar,and DMac went on and on and on about T.o , same thing happened last with DeSean Jackson. I don't even want to mention that little phone stunt McNabb pulled if Owens or Marshall pulled something like that they would of been suspeneded four games and taking an infinite amount of bashing on ESPN, but McNabb did it they thought it was hilarious.

 

I honestly don't remember any of that. Could you give me some links?

 

The way I remember it was Owens was the asshole (so far he's pissed off Maricucci, Mc Nabb, Garcia, Reid, and Romo... possibly the five nicest guys in football), and I never heard a thing about Jackson or any "phone stunt."

 

But trust me, I'd love a reason to hate Mc Nabb.

[fringe]

<br>If you believe in "win at all costs" maybe you consider this move more.  But the Giants, with some exceptions, have taken character into a greater account than most teams.  I believe strong character and intelligence overcomes physical talent in the long run.  Of course, you have to have some physical talent, too!  <br><br>But one of the reasons I love being a Giants fan is that they don't typically go after low-character guys even if their physical talents are so impressive.  None of that physical talent will help when Brandon Marshall isn't playing because of suspension.  The physical talent doesn't help when the player gives up on the team and starts dogging it.  High character players, in my humble opinion, was one of the driving factors in us winning the Super Bowl.  People will inevitably bring up Plaxico, which is fine.  But when we signed Plax it was not apparent that he would get into so much trouble.  Also, I believe Plaxico does have some character, it's the intelligence aspect I question. But the core of that team on both sides of the ball was not only very intelligent, but also high character guys.  Think of Strahan, Tuck, Pierce, Kawika Mitchell, our offensive line, Jacobs, Amani Toomer, and the embodiment of all these attributes, Eli Manning. <br><br>This organization has a history.  It's a proud franchise.  To me, signing players like T.O. or Brandon Marshall goes against the Giant ethos.  It's what the Cowboys do, not what we do.  It's what the Raiders do, not us.  I believe firmly that by steering clear of such malcontents and criminals, you set yourself up for greater long term success, rather than just a quick fix that burns hot for a while, before blowing up in your face. <br><br>I can respect why some posters would want Marshall.  He may be the best receiver in football right now.  He is ridiculously talented.  But I could not root for him the same way I do Eli or Hakeem Nicks, or Justin Tuck.<br><br>Just something to consider.

<br><br>ah never mind.  <img src="http://www.sportswrath.com/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif" alt="" class="bbc_emoticon">  <br><font face="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"> <br></font><br>

[Treehugger]

If you believe in "win at all costs" maybe you consider this move more. But the Giants, with some exceptions, have taken character into a greater account than most teams. I believe strong character and intelligence overcomes physical talent in the long run. Of course, you have to have some physical talent, too!

 

But one of the reasons I love being a Giants fan is that they don't typically go after low-character guys even if their physical talents are so impressive. None of that physical talent will help when Brandon Marshall isn't playing because of suspension. The physical talent doesn't help when the player gives up on the team and starts dogging it. High character players, in my humble opinion, was one of the driving factors in us winning the Super Bowl. People will inevitably bring up Plaxico, which is fine. But when we signed Plax it was not apparent that he would get into so much trouble. Also, I believe Plaxico does have some character, it's the intelligence aspect I question. But the core of that team on both sides of the ball was not only very intelligent, but also high character guys. Think of Strahan, Tuck, Pierce, Kawika Mitchell, our offensive line, Jacobs, Amani Toomer, and the embodiment of all these attributes, Eli Manning.

 

This organization has a history. It's a proud franchise. To me, signing players like T.O. or Brandon Marshall goes against the Giant ethos. It's what the Cowboys do, not what we do. It's what the Raiders do, not us. I believe firmly that by steering clear of such malcontents and criminals, you set yourself up for greater long term success, rather than just a quick fix that burns hot for a while, before blowing up in your face.

 

I can respect why some posters would want Marshall. He may be the best receiver in football right now. He is ridiculously talented. But I could not root for him the same way I do Eli or Hakeem Nicks, or Justin Tuck.

 

Just something to consider.

I'm not sure Jacobs deserves to be grouped with those guys. He may be quiet off the field, but we're very lucky his on-field antics ie. throwing punches, haven't cost us...yet.

[Tempest]

Missed the boat my ass. He is on the motherfucking bus out of the league. He wouldn't even be a trade option if he was close to being a safe bet. Miami took him because they have nothing at wide receiver while the Giants have excellent options at the position.

 

Hakeem Nicks did more in his first season than any other wide receiver the Giants have drafted not named Steve Smith or Ike Hilliard in the last 20 years. I consider him proven beyond a doubt at this point.