ohara makes probowl

[Storm]

Rice has almost equal production to Smith yet he plays in an offense that spreads the ball around more, and his team is a playoff team. Playoff teams are always rewarded moreso than non-playoff teams when picking the Pro Bowl. Therefore, being that they have nearly identical production numbers, (and that, in reality land, Rice is a better PLAYMAKER than Smith), Rice deserves the nod.

 

If you're going to decide that 20 more catches matter and that one TD more and 1 fewer fumble are important stats to consider than I am going to throw out that 37 yards also important as well as a 15.6 yds/rec average and 265 YAC compared to a pitiful 202 YAC for Smith.

 

HAHAHAHA, if 202 YAC is pitiful, 265 is mediocre.

 

The Pro Bowl is an individual accomplishment, whether or not they are on a winning team should--and often is--irrelevant.

[Storm]

How do you know that the 1 fumble didn't cost the Vikes a game? That's one more game than Steve Smith lost for us.

[Allstarjim]

So to sum it up

Moss the playmaker is out, Welker in--- against your argument OMG you're an idiot.

 

The Vikings had better options than Eli and the Giants---also disproved, aside from running back. Actually, it is a factual statement that the Vikings had a better offense than the Giants. Their offense produced more points per game, PERIOD. Passing and overall. And they won.

 

First touchdowns and yards matter, but having more touchdowns than another player is insignificant. A one touchdown margin is not very significant, what is significant is that Rice had only one less despite much fewer targets. It's not a stat... it's just revealing as to what kind of player he is... a player that is capable of getting more yardage and more touchdowns in the same amount of receptions is a better player than one who gets less in that amount of receptions. When Smith had 78 catches this season (after wk 13) he had 979 yards ad only 5 TD's on the year. But Rice has topped Smith's production in yards and only has one less touchdown in fewer catches, meaning that Rice has done more with his catches than Smith has done with his.

 

Sydney Rice is somehow a "better red zone target" yet has less touchdowns and gets most of his TDs from farther out (which is your original argument), anyway. Rice is a better redzone target in that he is 6'4".

 

Tard likes hypothetical "what if" Sydney Rice had caught 20 more passes? Wouldn't he have more TDs and yards than Smith? Sorry, but the stat sheet doesn't account for what ifs. Rice does have more yards. It's not a hypothetical. And only one less catch. And he is on a playoff team. You are the only one that is talking about hypotheticals. I am talking about what Rice actually did. Which was be the more explosive, better player than Smith, because Smith needed 20 more catches than Rice to get that one more TD and he still falls short in yardage... I am not dealing in hypotheticals. Rice's numbers stand on their own. Do I need to do Player A and Player B again for the slow learners?

[Allstarjim]

How do you know that the 1 fumble didn't cost the Vikes a game? That's one more game than Steve Smith lost for us.

 

 

I know because the Panthers did not capitalize on the fumble and the Vikings lost that game by 19 points. I have never seen a fumble cost a team 19 points, especially when the opposing team did not turn said fumble into points.

 

Next.

[Allstarjim]

HAHAHAHA, if 202 YAC is pitiful, 265 is mediocre.

 

The Pro Bowl is an individual accomplishment, whether or not they are on a winning team should--and often is--irrelevant.

 

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

But 265 YAC in 77 catches is much, MUCH more impressive than 202 YAC in 97 catches. Hence the reason Rice has more yards than Smith.

[Iceman_NYG]

Welker, Moss, Smith, Rice - whoever the fuck.

 

Did anyone ever factor this into the equation that the Giants blew big blue balls and absolutely fucking sucked ass in red zone offense??? They just couldnt fucking get the ball in and would rely on might Tynes. That might have a lot to do with it. The other teams were way more efficient in scoring. That could have something to do with it as well....just a thought

[NightFire]

Not to help out Storm here but when Welker was out the Patriots struggled a lot. It's great to have a powerful engine but guys like Smith and Welker are the quality oil needed to keep the engine going. They get the hard middle of the field yards so players like Moss can be open and get the glory with TDs. To be honest Welker is more important to his team than Moss is. He keeps the drives alive giving time for Moss to eventually beat the coverage and get the bomb highlight throw.

[BIGBLUE01]

I disagree. Steve Smith is 3rd in the NFL in receiving. And the two ahead of him are in the AFC. Steve was definitely snubbed for players on winning teams. End of story. Blue is totally right on this.

 

And you don't know what you're talking about. Sydney Rice didn't have nearly as good of a season, 20 less receptions, 1 less touchdown, 1 more fumble (to Smith's zero).

 

Miles Austin simply had 4 more TDs, 23 less receptions, 1 more fumble.

 

Desean had 37 less receptions, but more touchdowns.

 

And other than Desean, not one of those players has meant more to their team this year than Steve Smith did.

 

Agreed Storm. And Jackson and Austin only had more TD's because who else is worth a shit on their receiving corps besides maybe Witten?

[fishgutmartyr]

I don't really care about the Pro Bowl. All I care about is that we have 58 3rd down conversions that we wouldn't have had without Steve Smith. And at 12 yds/reception, we can rely on him to move chains. You need that kind of receiver on your team.

 

Over the last three years, I think he's the best 3rd down receiver I've seen since Drew Pearson. I've said this before, and I'll say it again in the future, hopefully.

 

I'm sure someone will call me retarded, but I would have gone with Smith, simply because I think he's much better in the role he's asked to do, and he's expanded on his role this year. You usually don't see a possession receiver fall in the top 10 in as many categories as Smith has this year. The fact I'm a Giant's fan probably doesn't hurt, either.

[fishgutmartyr]

Welker, Moss, Smith, Rice - whoever the fuck.

 

Did anyone ever factor this into the equation that the Giants blew big blue balls and absolutely fucking sucked ass in red zone offense??? They just couldnt fucking get the ball in and would rely on might Tynes. That might have a lot to do with it. The other teams were way more efficient in scoring. That could have something to do with it as well....just a thought

Here ya go.

 

We're ranked 5th in the fucking league in TDs. We're top 10 in pts/game, and total pts. In a nutshell, we're scoring enough tds to win games with a defense that had any semblance of competency.

[Treehugger]

I disagree. Steve Smith is 3rd in the NFL in receiving. And the two ahead of him are in the AFC. Steve was definitely snubbed for players on winning teams. End of story. Blue is totally right on this.

 

And you don't know what you're talking about. Sydney Rice didn't have nearly as good of a season, 20 less receptions, 1 less touchdown, 1 more fumble (to Smith's zero).

 

Miles Austin simply had 4 more TDs, 23 less receptions, 1 more fumble.

 

Desean had 37 less receptions, but more touchdowns.

 

And other than Desean, not one of those players has meant more to their team this year than Steve Smith did.

Didn't we have this same discussion last year? Receptions don't put you in the Pro Bowl, it's yards, TDs and highlight reels..

[CrazedDogs]

I'd rather have Steve Smith's +30 more 3rd down receptions than any of those receivers production which is about 100 yards more. He had a better season than all of them. Snubbed. He's third in the league in RECEIVING.

 

There's a separate position for returning punts and kicks. So the DeSean Jackson kick return touchdowns don't matter much.

 

And I would definitely rather have Steve Smith over Sydney Rice or Miles Austin.

 

Did I mention Sydney Rice had LESS touchdowns than Steve Smith?

 

You're wrong, he's actually 9th. The rankings always go by yards, not by catches. Does that change your opinion?

 

Arguing for a WR to go to the pro bowl based on his # of receptions is sort of silly...nobody tries to put a RB in the pro bowl because he had a lot of carries.

[Storm]

So to sum it up

Moss the playmaker is out, Welker in--- against your argument OMG you're an idiot.

 

The Vikings had better options than Eli and the Giants---also disproved, aside from running back. Actually, it is a factual statement that the Vikings had a better offense than the Giants. Their offense produced more points per game, PERIOD. Passing and overall. And they won.

 

First touchdowns and yards matter, but having more touchdowns than another player is insignificant. A one touchdown margin is not very significant, what is significant is that Rice had only one less despite much fewer targets. It's not a stat... it's just revealing as to what kind of player he is... a player that is capable of getting more yardage and more touchdowns in the same amount of receptions is a better player than one who gets less in that amount of receptions. When Smith had 78 catches this season (after wk 13) he had 979 yards ad only 5 TD's on the year. But Rice has topped Smith's production in yards and only has one less touchdown in fewer catches, meaning that Rice has done more with his catches than Smith has done with his.

 

Sydney Rice is somehow a "better red zone target" yet has less touchdowns and gets most of his TDs from farther out (which is your original argument), anyway. Rice is a better redzone target in that he is 6'4".

 

Tard likes hypothetical "what if" Sydney Rice had caught 20 more passes? Wouldn't he have more TDs and yards than Smith? Sorry, but the stat sheet doesn't account for what ifs. Rice does have more yards. It's not a hypothetical. And only one less catch. And he is on a playoff team. You are the only one that is talking about hypotheticals. I am talking about what Rice actually did. Which was be the more explosive, better player than Smith, because Smith needed 20 more catches than Rice to get that one more TD and he still falls short in yardage... I am not dealing in hypotheticals. Rice's numbers stand on their own. Do I need to do Player A and Player B again for the slow learners?

 

 

Stop bringing in irrelevant side notes that go AGAINST what you're trying to say. You say playmakers always go ahead of production players in the Pro Bowl. And used Welker and Moss as your example. I told you that's not true at all and showed you how Welker is actually in the Pro Bowl this year, and not Moss. It has nothing to do with who I want on my football team. And neither does the Pro Bowl have anything to do with who I want on my football team, you dolt.

 

And no, you said Bretty Favre spread the ball around more than Eli and the Giants, hence Rice's lower reception total. Disproved.

 

So what if Rice has "done more" with his catches. It's quite apparent to me and the rest of the league that Eli and the Giants offense are built to sustain drives, not Brett Favre it and throw the ball down the field all the time. Hardly Steve Smith's fault. You can't say with any confidence that if we did try to be that team, that Smith wouldn't produce those kinds of numbers, too. Now who's actually dealing in hypotheticals?

 

He has 20 less catches. And no, you aren't, you're talking about what would happen if you extended Rice's catch number to 97 or whatever it is that Smith has, I can't remember now. I'm talking about what Smith ACTUALLY produced compared to Rice.

 

Fact is, Sydney Rice just isn't what Steve Smith was to the Giants, this year. Again, he scored more touchdowns, had less fumbles, caught 20 more passes while being the go to guy.

[Storm]

I know because the Panthers did not capitalize on the fumble and the Vikings lost that game by 19 points. I have never seen a fumble cost a team 19 points, especially when the opposing team did not turn said fumble into points.

 

Next.

 

Yah, nor did the Manningham fumble cost us the Panthers game, but it sure took the wind from our sails, didn't it?

[Storm]

You're wrong, he's actually 9th. The rankings always go by yards, not by catches. Does that change your opinion?

 

Arguing for a WR to go to the pro bowl based on his # of receptions is sort of silly...nobody tries to put a RB in the pro bowl because he had a lot of carries.

 

I'm talking about production, not just receptions, but you wouldn't know, you can't read.

 

I've completely destroyed AllstarTard's argument. Sound the words out, it helps.

[NightFire]

Here ya go.

 

We're ranked 5th in the fucking league in TDs. We're top 10 in pts/game, and total pts. In a nutshell, we're scoring enough tds to win games with a defense that had any semblance of competency.

 

Remember when the O was so bad that the D players fought O players. Ahhh...those were the days. I can't believe that the D actually had 3 TDs this year.

 

It's truly pathetic though that the Giants averaged 28 points per game and still couldn't make the playoffs. That should fire Sheridan right there. That's only 1 point behind the Colts and only 2 points behind the Eagles and Chargers. As I've stated many times it takes 30+ points to win games with this Giants D, just like with the Saints last year, a good O is not enough to win games if your D is terrible.

[NeMesiS]

I must admit, I really thought Steve Smith was going to the pro-bowl. i can't believe he isn't...

[boohyah]

There's a good chance Smith will go anyway, because all those players are in the playoffs and there's a good chance that one of them is making the superbowl, so you can count them out because if I'm correct the pro bowl is the week before the superbowl this year.

 

Whatever way he gets to play, he deserves it and hopefully it'll be a forgone conclusion in the years to come.

[Iceman_NYG]

There's a good chance Smith will go anyway, because all those players are in the playoffs and there's a good chance that one of them is making the superbowl, so you can count them out because if I'm correct the pro bowl is the week before the superbowl this year.

 

Whatever way he gets to play, he deserves it and hopefully it'll be a forgone conclusion in the years to come.

 

He might but Storm's point is Smith doesnt need to go to the ProBowl because someone else is not playing or someone is going to the Superbowl. Smith deserves to go the Pro-Bowl as a first choice and I agree with him. He was snubbed because the overall population/fanbase is retarded with their votes. And also because he is on a non-playoff team.

[Storm]

He might but Storm's point is Smith doesnt need to go to the ProBowl because someone else is not playing or someone is going to the Superbowl. Smith deserves to go the Pro-Bowl as a first choice and I agree with him. He was snubbed because the overall population/fanbase is retarded with their votes. And also because he is on a non-playoff team.

 

Other than Jackson, not a single one of those receivers has meant more to their QB this year than Steve Smith. Agreed? In fact, I think he was snubbed BECAUSE he isn't flashy and fancy pantsy and back returning kicks and doing other things. Smith is the workhorse. The other guys are flashy and make highlight reels. Smith makes nice catches, and caught a beautiful fade route in the end zone just the other day, a pass that rarely connects unless you're 6'4, so I don't get AllstarTard's knock on Smith's red zone skills, either.

 

Remember the little dip and go that got him into the endzone from around the 10 early in the season? A route of beauty.

[Iceman_NYG]

Other than Jackson, not a single one of those receivers has meant more to their QB this year than Steve Smith. Agreed? In fact, I think he was snubbed BECAUSE he isn't flashy and fancy pantsy and back returning kicks and doing other things. Smith is the workhorse. The other guys are flashy and make highlight reels. Smith makes nice catches, and caught a beautiful fade route in the end zone just the other day, a pass that rarely connects unless you're 6'4, so I don't get AllstarTard's knock on Smith's red zone skills, either.

 

Remember the little dip and go that got him into the endzone from around the 10 early in the season? A route of beauty.

 

Dont you know that its the highlight reel that determines who gets into the Pro-Bowl? That, on-field antics and retarded fans voting. Useless people like Steve Smith who do nothing but be the go-to guy for a QB and do nothing but move the chains consistently while maintaing a low profile have no business being in the Pro-Bowl! So stop talking bullshit!

[NightFire]

Dont you know that its the highlight reel that determines who gets into the Pro-Bowl? That, on-field antics and retarded fans voting. Useless people like Steve Smith who do nothing but be the go-to guy for a QB and do nothing but move the chains consistently while maintaing a low profile have no business being in the Pro-Bowl! So stop talking bullshit!

 

Also a lot of times when you just start doing really well you will miss out. Welker made it and he has the streak for most catches without a TD. If Smith continues next year like this year he will make the ProBowl.

[boohyah]

He might but Storm's point is Smith doesnt need to go to the ProBowl because someone else is not playing or someone is going to the Superbowl. Smith deserves to go the Pro-Bowl as a first choice and I agree with him. He was snubbed because the overall population/fanbase is retarded with their votes. And also because he is on a non-playoff team.

Ice, I said earlier he should be first choice. He should be in over Austin, because Austin only showed up in Kansas and thereafter, and even then the Cowboys were having issues with Roy Williams, so Austin became the first option. He's a good receiver, but I don't doubt if GM"s had to pick between the 2, they'd pick Smith. If he has another year like this, Smith will go next year. The "swoon" has hurt his chances, simple as that. It's too bad.

[CrazedDogs]

I'm talking about production, not just receptions, but you wouldn't know, you can't read.

 

I've completely destroyed AllstarTard's argument. Sound the words out, it helps.

 

Okay, in terms of yardage produced Steve Smith was 9th. Hows that for production?

 

And no...AllStarTard completely destroyed your argument. Why do I say that?...I was on your side when the thread started, I was actually all gung ho to go off on how Smith got shafted. But... checked the numbers, turns out I was wrong. Live and learn.

[CrazedDogs]

Other than Jackson, not a single one of those receivers has meant more to their QB this year than Steve Smith. Agreed? In fact, I think he was snubbed BECAUSE he isn't flashy and fancy pantsy and back returning kicks and doing other things. Smith is the workhorse. The other guys are flashy and make highlight reels. Smith makes nice catches, and caught a beautiful fade route in the end zone just the other day, a pass that rarely connects unless you're 6'4, so I don't get AllstarTard's knock on Smith's red zone skills, either.

 

Remember the little dip and go that got him into the endzone from around the 10 early in the season? A route of beauty.

 

I think those are all reasonable points. But when you have other guys doing more with fewer reps, its hard to sit them down to put in the workhorse.