Somebody talk me down...

[JMFP]

I am very hoepful but a little hesitant about this team, I remember 2004 the year after we lost/got screwed by San Fran the year before. I thought boy is this team gonna be pissed and they have enough potential to make a super bowl run and instead the team went 4-12 and basically gave up and it was the hardest season I had the sit through in 20 years of being a Giants fan. I do not see the same scenario playing out under Coughlin, but we could we look at the negatives like Jacobs getting hurt which could be inevitable or having no recievers stepping up which means every team is gonna stack 8 in the box to stop our run, and the before amentioned Kevin Gilbride is our OC (UGH!), but our D has two great corners, the best D-Line in the NFL and now two pass rushing LB's we should be fine and show alot of fire to get back to the super bowl

 

In case you didn't get the memo, you're not allowed to criticize Gilbride. According to some, Gilbride is the next coming of Vince Lombardi. He had a masterful gameplan, it's just that the players didn't execute.

 

[Money]

Here is a summary of what I've been suggesting:

 

• I think it qualified as a bad weather game.
• I think the offensive coordinator was foolish...his game plan played to the strength of the opposition. I think Jacobs strength is running between the tackles against an undersized Philly line, as opposed to running parallel to the line of scrimmage.
• I think passing 3x when you have 1st and 5 was idiotic. You make a point concerning Eli's audible, but that only explains one down. And that doens't explain the collective coaching brainlock on both sides of the ball that in completely misplaying the end of the 1st half.
• I think Bradshaw was completely misused. Bradshaw touched the ball 6 times in the return game for 180 yards, including a 65 yard burst. And yet, strangely, Gilbridge couldn't find a role for him on offense? We're talking about the same runningback who in a similar bad weather game (Buffalo 2007 season) saved their playoff chances.
• I mentioned that Eli's bad weather problems lie with wind, and not cold, and I've made a point of mentioning the Green Bay game in that regard.
• I posted the link above to reflect that Eli needs to work on his mechanics with respect to delivering the ball in the Meadowlands, a point that was brought up by Bob Papa and Carl Banks.

 

I was at the game. The wind really wasn't that bad, and it certainyl didn't dissuade the Eagles from being aggressive with their passing attack.

 

Jacobs ran the ball well. He averaged 4.84 ypc (his career avg. vs. Philly is 4.4). It's a real leap to contend that he was misused. Furthermore, you continue to complain that he was running parallel to the line of scrimmage -- a broad generalization thusfar absent of any proof -- and that his strength is running between the tackles. Unfortunately, his career metrics demonstrate that the opposite is true:

 

Wide Left: 6.0

Left: 5.1

Middle: 3.6

Right: 4.1

Wide Right: 5.8

 

His 2008 season was no exception; it was completely commensurate with those numbers. So running him outside against Philly -- if that's what happened -- appears to be a pretty smart idea, even against a fast Eagles defense. And getting 92 yards on 19 carries seems to suggest that we weren't exactly getting stonewalled. Please keep in mind that the Eagles finished the season with the 4th ranked rushing D; you're implying that we should have been able to run right over them, when the truth is that they are one of the stingiest run defenses in football. Being successful on the ground against them was no small order.

 

As for the audible, I it occurred on 2nd down. I certainly don't mind being aggressive on 1st and 5 (since if you're unsuccessful, you have two downs to gain just five yards), whereas 3rd and 5 is a passing down.

 

Like I alluded to earlier, it's time to accept that Bradshaw really isn't especially good. He needs to make huge strides (pass pro, ball security) before he can ever rekindle the promise of his rookie season. For crying out loud, the guy had a negative DVOA (-1.4%) last year while Ward (25.9%) and Jacobs (22.8%) ranked 2nd and 3rd among RBs with more than 100 carries. He was also one of the worst return specialists in football last season, ranking 29th. But yeah, he should have been taking snaps away from two superior players...neither of whom is a liability to get the QB killed.

 

Eli can improve in a variety of ways, including his performance in windy conditions. I don't see how that's relevant to Kevin Gilbride and his performance as offensive coordinator.

 

[boohyah]

In case you didn't get the memo, you're not allowed to criticize Gilbride. According to some, Gilbride is the next coming of Vince Lombardi. He had a masterful gameplan, it's just that the players didn't execute.

 

No-one is saying that. But blaming Gilbride for all the problems down the stretch last year isn't the solution either. I think he could have done a better job at times, but truth is the offense is and has to be pretty balanced to keep defences honest. Furthermore Gilbride and Coughlin let Eli audible, and Eli has changed some plays at the line like that one in the playoffs last year.

 

Again, another point. The defense wasn't the same down the stretch either yet Spags for the most part got a pass, why?

 

One other thing, Gilbride is less than one season away from being lauded for his calls leading during the playoffs. The team went 12-4 the next season. How is that all forgotten so quickly?. All this success is in spite of him???. Right now, there are a lot of other teams out there that would be on Gilbride's jock looking to hire him if we fired him, no question.

[boohyah]

I was at the game. The wind really wasn't that bad, and it certainyl didn't dissuade the Eagles from being aggressive with their passing attack.

 

Jacobs ran the ball well. He averaged 4.84 ypc (his career avg. vs. Philly is 4.4). It's a real leap to contend that he was misused. Furthermore, you continue to complain that he was running parallel to the line of scrimmage -- a broad generalization thusfar absent of any proof -- and that his strength is running between the tackles. Unfortunately, his career metrics demonstrate that the opposite is true:

 

Wide Left: 6.0

Left: 5.1

Middle: 3.6

Right: 4.1

Wide Right: 5.8

 

His 2008 season was no exception; it was completely commensurate with those numbers. So running him outside against Philly -- if that's what happened -- appears to be a pretty smart idea, even against a fast Eagles defense. And getting 92 yards on 19 carries seems to suggest that we weren't exactly getting stonewalled. Please keep in mind that the Eagles finished the season with the 4th ranked rushing D; you're implying that we should have been able to run right over them, when the truth is that they are one of the stingiest run defenses in football. Being successful on the ground against them was no small order.

 

As for the audible, I it occurred on 2nd down. I certainly don't mind being aggressive on 1st and 5 (since if you're unsuccessful, you have two downs to gain just five yards), whereas 3rd and 5 is a passing down.

 

Like I alluded to earlier, it's time to accept that Bradshaw really isn't especially good. He needs to make huge strides (pass pro, ball security) before he can ever rekindle the promise of his rookie season. For crying out loud, the guy had a negative DVOA (-1.4%) last year while Ward (25.9%) and Jacobs (22.8%) ranked 2nd and 3rd among RBs with more than 100 carries. He was also one of the worst return specialists in football last season, ranking 29th. But yeah, he should have been taking snaps away from two superior players...neither of whom is a liability to get the QB killed.

 

Eli can improve in a variety of ways, including his performance in windy conditions. I don't see how that's relevant to Kevin Gilbride and his performance as offensive coordinator.

 

 

Good grief Money, do you always post with a scientific calculator right next to you?

[JMFP]

I was at the game. The wind really wasn't that bad, and it certainyl didn't dissuade the Eagles from being aggressive with their passing attack.

 

Jacobs ran the ball well. He averaged 4.84 ypc (his career avg. vs. Philly is 4.4). It's a real leap to contend that he was misused. Furthermore, you continue to complain that he was running parallel to the line of scrimmage -- a broad generalization thusfar absent of any proof -- and that his strength is running between the tackles. Unfortunately, his career metrics demonstrate that the opposite is true:

 

Wide Left: 6.0

Left: 5.1

Middle: 3.6

Right: 4.1

Wide Right: 5.8

 

His 2008 season was no exception; it was completely commensurate with those numbers. So running him outside against Philly -- if that's what happened -- appears to be a pretty smart idea, even against a fast Eagles defense. And getting 92 yards on 19 carries seems to suggest that we weren't exactly getting stonewalled. Please keep in mind that the Eagles finished the season with the 4th ranked rushing D; you're implying that we should have been able to run right over them, when the truth is that they are one of the stingiest run defenses in football. Being successful on the ground against them was no small order.

 

As for the audible, I it occurred on 2nd down. I certainly don't mind being aggressive on 1st and 5 (since if you're unsuccessful, you have two downs to gain just five yards), whereas 3rd and 5 is a passing down.

 

Like I alluded to earlier, it's time to accept that Bradshaw really isn't especially good. He needs to make huge strides (pass pro, ball security) before he can ever rekindle the promise of his rookie season. For crying out loud, the guy had a negative DVOA (-1.4%) last year while Ward (25.9%) and Jacobs (22.8%) ranked 2nd and 3rd among RBs with more than 100 carries. He was also one of the worst return specialists in football last season, ranking 29th. But yeah, he should have been taking snaps away from two superior players...neither of whom is a liability to get the QB killed.

 

Eli can improve in a variety of ways, including his performance in windy conditions. I don't see how that's relevant to Kevin Gilbride and his performance as offensive coordinator.

 

We'll have to disagree about the weather. I watched the game, and it appeared to me that Eli was having difficulty with the wind conditions. This was something that Bob Papa and Carl Banks also mentioned in postgame commentary.

 

I've supported both Manning and Gilbride in the past, but in the Philly game, they both struggled. Eli clearly had issues in delivering an accurate pass.

 

However, it is the job of the offensive coordinator to take the performance of his players into account, along with the weather conditions, and the opposition. Philly has an undersized, quick, defense. Logic would suggest that against that sort of defense, which excels at stringing out running plays, the best attack is up the gut. Logic would also suggest that instead of running moderate to deep routes, the Giants pass attack would have benefitted from screens and passes to Boss. Instead of sitting in the gun with an empty backfield, perhaps some shorter routes, play-action, or rollouts might have helped.

 

I completely disagree with you regarding the end of the 1st half. With 1st and 5 inside the 20, with a QB struggling with his passing game, and with a rushing attack that was clearly effective, the better route was to pound the ball, hope for a TD, but settle for a field goal with no time on the clock. Instead, we pass, leave a ton of time on the clock, and go into a prevent defense that almost allowed a TD. So instead of going into the half with the lead and some momentum, we go into the half with a deficit. That was a poor job by the coaching staff. And again, when Coughlin took the ball and gave the Eagles the wind in the 4th quarter, I thought it was a big tactical error.

 

We'll also have to disagree on Bradshaw...I think you are overblowing his blocking liability. I remember Eli having an awful game in Buffalo, and I recall that we were down by 14 points against the Bills before getting Bradshaw involved in the game. Bradshaw has performed plenty big in big games - the Patriots Super Bowl coming immediately to mind.

 

The Eagles totalled 276 yards on offense, with 59 on the ground. The Giants had 309, with 169 on the ground. Seems to me that the Eagles passed because they HAD to, whereas we did because...shit, I have no idea why.

 

It's my opinion that in bad weather (again, I understand, you think the weather was fine), with a struggling passing attack, and a successful rushing attack, Gilbride abandoned the approach championed by John Madden - "do it until they stop you".

 

That's all I've got on this. Feel free to respond or not...I'll certainly read whatever you post.

 

 

[Money]

No-one is saying that. But blaming Gilbride for all the problems down the stretch last year isn't the solution either. I think he could have done a better job at times, but truth is the offense is and has to be pretty balanced to keep defences honest. Furthermore Gilbride and Coughlin let Eli audible, and Eli has changed some plays at the line like that one in the playoffs last year.

 

Again, another point. The defense wasn't the same down the stretch either yet Spags for the most part got a pass, why?

 

One other thing, Gilbride is less than one season away from being lauded for his calls leading during the playoffs. The team went 12-4 the next season. How is that all forgotten so quickly?. All this success is in spite of him???. Right now, there are a lot of other teams out there that would be on Gilbride's jock looking to hire him if we fired him, no question.

 

I agree. No coach or player is beyond reproach. It's just disappointing to see people spouting "Kildrive" and "Gilfuck" other equally unfunny nicknames. The guy coaches for our team, and was apart of a championship.

 

Re: Spags, I think his pass extends from the general public loving defensive coordinators and hating offensive coordinators. It's a strange phenomenon. According to fans throughout the league, any decent DC is respected while any good DC is cannonized. Conversly, every offensive coordinator is an idiot. I remember having these conversations about Gilbride last year (what have you done for me lately?) and asking his critics to point to a "good" offensive coordinator. After a lot of posturing, someone brought up Josh McDaniels of the Pats (who we had just defeated in the Super Bowl). I went to the Pats message board and instantly found 100 points complaining about him...after a year where he orchestrated the highest scoring team in league history.

 

Offensive coordinators = idiots. Weird.

[Allstarjim]

I agree. No coach or player is beyond reproach. It's just disappointing to see people spouting "Kildrive" and "Gilfuck" other equally unfunny nicknames. The guy coaches for our team, and was apart of a championship.

 

Re: Spags, I think his pass extends from the general public loving defensive coordinators and hating offensive coordinators. It's a strange phenomenon. According to fans throughout the league, any decent DC is respected while any good DC is cannonized. Conversly, every offensive coordinator is an idiot. I remember having these conversations about Gilbride last year (what have you done for me lately?) and asking his critics to point to a "good" offensive coordinator. After a lot of posturing, someone brought up Josh McDaniels of the Pats (who we had just defeated in the Super Bowl). I went to the Pats message board and instantly found 100 points complaining about him...after a year where he orchestrated the highest scoring team in league history.

 

Offensive coordinators = idiots. Weird.

 

 

Money, all the great offensive coordinators are posters on SportsWrath. DUH!

[NeMesiS]

I agree. No coach or player is beyond reproach. It's just disappointing to see people spouting "Kildrive" and "Gilfuck" other equally unfunny nicknames. The guy coaches for our team, and was apart of a championship.

 

Re: Spags, I think his pass extends from the general public loving defensive coordinators and hating offensive coordinators. It's a strange phenomenon. According to fans throughout the league, any decent DC is respected while any good DC is cannonized. Conversly, every offensive coordinator is an idiot. I remember having these conversations about Gilbride last year (what have you done for me lately?) and asking his critics to point to a "good" offensive coordinator. After a lot of posturing, someone brought up Josh McDaniels of the Pats (who we had just defeated in the Super Bowl). I went to the Pats message board and instantly found 100 points complaining about him...after a year where he orchestrated the highest scoring team in league history.

 

Offensive coordinators = idiots. Weird.

Its the nature of our game. Especially with us Giants fans.

 

But I'm not ready to let Tom Coughlin off the hook either. He should have not let Carney attemt those 2 missed field goals. (Which lead to two Eagles scores) I would have punted, and pinned the Eagles.

[NeMesiS]

Money, all the great offensive coordinators are posters on SportsWrath. DUH!

[Money]

We'll have to disagree about the weather. I watched the game, and it appeared to me that Eli was having difficulty with the wind conditions. This was something that Bob Papa and Carl Banks also mentioned in postgame commentary.

 

I've supported both Manning and Gilbride in the past, but in the Philly game, they both struggled. Eli clearly had issues in delivering an accurate pass.

 

However, it is the job of the offensive coordinator to take the performance of his players into account, along with the weather conditions, and the opposition. Philly has an undersized, quick, defense. Logic would suggest that against that sort of defense, which excels at stringing out running plays, the best attack is up the gut. Logic would also suggest that instead of running moderate to deep routes, the Giants pass attack would have benefitted from screens and passes to Boss. Instead of sitting in the gun with an empty backfield, perhaps some shorter routes, play-action, or rollouts might have helped.

 

I completely disagree with you regarding the end of the 1st half. With 1st and 5 inside the 20, with a QB struggling with his passing game, and with a rushing attack that was clearly effective, the better route was to pound the ball, hope for a TD, but settle for a field goal with no time on the clock. Instead, we pass, leave a ton of time on the clock, and go into a prevent defense that almost allowed a TD. So instead of going into the half with the lead and some momentum, we go into the half with a deficit. That was a poor job by the coaching staff. And again, when Coughlin took the ball and gave the Eagles the wind in the 4th quarter, I thought it was a big tactical error.

 

We'll also have to disagree on Bradshaw...I think you are overblowing his blocking liability. I remember Eli having an awful game in Buffalo, and I recall that we were down by 14 points against the Bills before getting Bradshaw involved in the game. Bradshaw has performed plenty big in big games - the Patriots Super Bowl coming immediately to mind.

 

The Eagles totalled 276 yards on offense, with 59 on the ground. The Giants had 309, with 169 on the ground. Seems to me that the Eagles passed because they HAD to, whereas we did because...shit, I have no idea why.

 

It's my opinion that in bad weather (again, I understand, you think the weather was fine), with a struggling passing attack, and a successful rushing attack, Gilbride abandoned the approach championed by John Madden - "do it until they stop you".

 

That's all I've got on this. Feel free to respond or not...I'll certainly read whatever you post.

 

Logic would indicate that it's diffuclt to run against the Eagles in any direction, especially since the notion of their defense being undersized is a thing of the past. Their starting DL (Cole, Patterson, Bunkley, Abiamiri) averages 284. Our starting DL, by comparison, averages 289. Plus, their interior run defense has improved markedly since 255-lb. Stewart Bradley was moved to MLB, and it shows in their numbers (4th in yards per game and yards per rush).

 

Logic also dictates that as a good team, you do what you do best. We attack the edges with great efficiency, so I can't fault our coaching staff for doing so against the Eagles (whose two weakest players, by the way, are their OLBs). And overall, we had modest success on the ground but it wasn't enough to swing the game in our favor.

 

Nonetheless, we did run until they stopped us. Our first possession:

 

1-10-PHI 35 (14:51) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 12-S.Smith.

2-10-PHI 35 (14:46) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to PHI 29 for 6 yards (27-Q.Mikell, 57-C.Gocong).

3-4-PHI 29 (14:11) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 34-D.Ward pushed ob at PHI 27 for 2 yards (22-A.Samuel).

4-2-PHI 27 (13:46) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle to PHI 24 for 3 yards (97-B.Bunkley).

1-10-PHI 24 (13:00) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 84-D.Johnson to PHI 11 for 13 yards (57-C.Gocong).

1-10-PHI 11 (12:15) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to PHI 9 for 2 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

2-8-PHI 9 (11:39) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to PHI 9 for no gain (98-M.Patterson, 95-V.Abiamiri).

3-8-PHI 9 (10:53) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 34-D.Ward to PHI 4 for 5 yards (55-S.Bradley).

4-3-PHI 4 (10:05) 5-J.Carney 22 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-93-J.Alford, Holder-18-J.Feagles.

 

We converted a 4th and 2 by running the ball before Jacobs stalled inside the red zone, leading to a 3rd and 8 and eventual FG.

 

Our third possession:

 

2-D.Akers kicks 74 yards from PHI 30 to NYG -4. 44-A.Bradshaw to NYG 21 for 25 yards (27-Q.Mikell).

1-10-NYG 21 (5:52) 34-D.Ward up the middle to NYG 21 for no gain (27-Q.Mikell, 57-C.Gocong).

2-10-NYG 21 (5:13) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 23 for 2 yards (97-B.Bunkley, 20-B.Dawkins).

3-8-NYG 23 (4:28) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 12-S.Smith to NYG 34 for 11 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

1-10-NYG 34 (3:53) 34-D.Ward right tackle to NYG 34 for no gain (95-V.Abiamiri).

2-10-NYG 34 (3:05) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 35 for 1 yard (55-S.Bradley, 58-T.Cole).

3-9-NYG 35 (2:20) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 81-A.Toomer.

4-9-NYG 35 (2:11) 18-J.Feagles punts 45 yards to PHI 20, Center-51-Z.DeOssie. 10-D.Jackson to PHI 20 for no gain (57-C.Blackburn, 51-Z.DeOssie). PENALTY on PHI-37-S.Considine, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 20.

 

Our fourth possession:

 

1-10-NYG 36 (:03) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to NYG 47 for 11 yards (20-B.Dawkins, 39-Q.Demps).

END QUARTER 1

2ND QUARTER

New York Giants continues ...

1-10-NYG 47 (15:00) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to NYG 49 for 2 yards (98-M.Patterson, 93-T.Laws).

2-8-NYG 49 (14:27) 27-B.Jacobs left end to 50 for 1 yard (57-C.Gocong).

3-7- (13:41) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep left to 12-S.Smith.

4-7- (13:29) 18-J.Feagles punts 45 yards to PHI 5, Center-51-Z.DeOssie, downed by NYG-51-Z.DeOssie. Ball batted back by #24 - T.Thomas

 

We see a lot of instances here where our running game failed to produce on 1st and 2nd down. Consistently converting 3rd and 9's is difficult. It's even more difficult when the wind was as bad as you believe.

 

Our next four possessions ended in FG attempts (two makes, two misses) and fell behind 20-11 on the first play of the 4th quarter. We did not panic and stuck to the running game. Here's what happened:

 

4th QUARTER

 

2-D.Akers kicks 73 yards from PHI 30 to NYG -3. 44-A.Bradshaw to NYG 24 for 27 yards (50-T.Daniels).

1-10-NYG 24 (14:50) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 35 for 11 yards (58-T.Cole, 57-C.Gocong).

1-10-NYG 35 (14:21) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 40 for 5 yards (20-B.Dawkins, 55-S.Bradley).

2-5-NYG 40 (13:44) (Shotgun) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 42 for 2 yards (55-S.Bradley, 58-T.Cole).

3-3-NYG 42 (13:03) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 44 for 2 yards (20-B.Dawkins). New York Giants challenged the runner was down by contact ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #2.)

4-1-NYG 44 (12:39) 10-E.Manning up the middle to NYG 44 for no gain (98-M.Patterson, 97-B.Bunkley).

 

Eagles go 3 & out and punt...

 

1-10-NYG 11 (10:22) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 25 for 14 yards (39-Q.Demps).

1-10-NYG 25 (9:47) 34-D.Ward right tackle to NYG 34 for 9 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

2-1-NYG 34 (9:09) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 39 for 5 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

1-10-NYG 39 (8:31) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 81-A.Toomer to NYG 45 for 6 yards (55-S.Bradley).

2-4-NYG 45 (8:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 47 for 2 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

3-2-NYG 47 (7:24) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right end to NYG 47 for no gain (75-J.Parker, 56-A.Jordan). Direct Snap.

4-2-NYG 47 (6:40) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 48 for 1 yard (97-B.Bunkley, 55-S.Bradley).

 

We ran. They stopped us. And we were relegated to desperation mode for the rest of the game.

[Money]

We'll also have to disagree on Bradshaw...I think you are overblowing his blocking liability. I remember Eli having an awful game in Buffalo, and I recall that we were down by 14 points against the Bills before getting Bradshaw involved in the game. Bradshaw has performed plenty big in big games - the Patriots Super Bowl coming immediately to mind.

 

Your recollection is a bit off. Bradshaw did not get his first carry against Buffalo until the 3rd quarter, at which time we were trailing 21-17. And I mentioned earlier that he had a really promising rookie season. But it clearly didn't translate into year 2; you might argue he regressed. I'm not over-blowing his pass pro liability because the staff kept him out for that exact reason... that and he fumbles. Neither of those characteristics sound like the ingredients for a good RB, and until he corrects them his performance will fall short of his ability.

[fringe]

There may well be a reason why Bradshaw ended up in the doghouse but to say he regressed is not fair. More accurate to say he was # 3 in the depth chart and #1 and #2 had exceptional and relatively healthy seasons.

Not knowing his 'career metrics' I would have to say that he will be given every chance at being the #2 back this year and if he works hard at it, he will succeed.

 

[ksm7]

We'll have to disagree about the weather. I watched the game, and it appeared to me that Eli was having difficulty with the wind conditions. This was something that Bob Papa and Carl Banks also mentioned in postgame commentary.

 

I've supported both Manning and Gilbride in the past, but in the Philly game, they both struggled. Eli clearly had issues in delivering an accurate pass.

 

However, it is the job of the offensive coordinator to take the performance of his players into account, along with the weather conditions, and the opposition. Philly has an undersized, quick, defense. Logic would suggest that against that sort of defense, which excels at stringing out running plays, the best attack is up the gut. Logic would also suggest that instead of running moderate to deep routes, the Giants pass attack would have benefitted from screens and passes to Boss. Instead of sitting in the gun with an empty backfield, perhaps some shorter routes, play-action, or rollouts might have helped.

 

I completely disagree with you regarding the end of the 1st half. With 1st and 5 inside the 20, with a QB struggling with his passing game, and with a rushing attack that was clearly effective, the better route was to pound the ball, hope for a TD, but settle for a field goal with no time on the clock. Instead, we pass, leave a ton of time on the clock, and go into a prevent defense that almost allowed a TD. So instead of going into the half with the lead and some momentum, we go into the half with a deficit. That was a poor job by the coaching staff. And again, when Coughlin took the ball and gave the Eagles the wind in the 4th quarter, I thought it was a big tactical error.

 

We'll also have to disagree on Bradshaw...I think you are overblowing his blocking liability. I remember Eli having an awful game in Buffalo, and I recall that we were down by 14 points against the Bills before getting Bradshaw involved in the game. Bradshaw has performed plenty big in big games - the Patriots Super Bowl coming immediately to mind.

 

The Eagles totalled 276 yards on offense, with 59 on the ground. The Giants had 309, with 169 on the ground. Seems to me that the Eagles passed because they HAD to, whereas we did because...shit, I have no idea why.

 

It's my opinion that in bad weather (again, I understand, you think the weather was fine), with a struggling passing attack, and a successful rushing attack, Gilbride abandoned the approach championed by John Madden - "do it until they stop you".

 

That's all I've got on this. Feel free to respond or not...I'll certainly read whatever you post.

 

the dog isn't sure what bradshaw did in the super bowl, but his stat line certainly wasn't what the dog would consider "performing big"...although he did have a crucial fumble recovery. anyhow, the dog has to agree that bradshaw is unproven in the role they may ask him to play. he certainly has some nice potential, but who knows.

 

the dog thinks gilbride takes some unecessary abuse. the offense had two thousand yard rushers, and an effective passing game with a QB that is overall fairly inconsistent to date. the eagles did outcoach the giants in the playoffs, but the bottom line is, the giants were physically beaten on the field that game as well...and the dog will apologize for all of the jacobs supporters ready to jump on this, but he is lauded as the big monster that is unstoppable...get a yard and half will you already? sorry, big moment, big game...265 pound back...have to get that...

[RandolphScott]

I recall Jacobs getting the most important 4th and 1 of his life in the Superbowl, you know....

the one the Giants won?

 

 

[Nesta]

man this is getting tiresome.

 

Someone has to point out how 'balanced' we were everytime somebody else gets down on Gilbride.

 

Throw balance out the fucking window and adjust to the defense and the weather. What good is balance when you lose?

And Jim, if you really think that game called for more passing, I'm stunned.

You really think our offensive focus should've been the struggling passing game, and not the rushing attack that carried us through most of the year?

[BlueInCanada]

I recall Jacobs getting the most important 4th and 1 of his life in the Superbowl, you know....

the one the Giants won?

 

I think alot of people forget about that, but it's one of the plays I have on my screensaver.

 

He doesnt push for that 1st we arnt even talking about "going back"

[Money]

man this is getting tiresome.

 

Someone has to point out how 'balanced' we were everytime somebody else gets down on Gilbride.

 

Throw balance out the fucking window and adjust to the defense and the weather. What good is balance when you lose?

And Jim, if you really think that game called for more passing, I'm stunned.

You really think our offensive focus should've been the struggling passing game, and not the rushing attack that carried us through most of the year?

 

In this case, it was suggested that Gilbride didn't call enough running plays. And that's untrue; we committed to the run at an exaggerated rate (57% before the final two desperation drives). And, as the above sequences show, the Eagles stopped our running game at the most critical times. You all wanted Gilbride to run the ball and he did ... and we lost because they stopped us.

[JMFP]

Logic would indicate that it's diffuclt to run against the Eagles in any direction, especially since the notion of their defense being undersized is a thing of the past. Their starting DL (Cole, Patterson, Bunkley, Abiamiri) averages 284. Our starting DL, by comparison, averages 289. Plus, their interior run defense has improved markedly since 255-lb. Stewart Bradley was moved to MLB, and it shows in their numbers (4th in yards per game and yards per rush).

 

Logic also dictates that as a good team, you do what you do best. We attack the edges with great efficiency, so I can't fault our coaching staff for doing so against the Eagles (whose two weakest players, by the way, are their OLBs). And overall, we had modest success on the ground but it wasn't enough to swing the game in our favor.

 

Nonetheless, we did run until they stopped us. Our first possession:

 

1-10-PHI 35 (14:51) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 12-S.Smith.

2-10-PHI 35 (14:46) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to PHI 29 for 6 yards (27-Q.Mikell, 57-C.Gocong).

3-4-PHI 29 (14:11) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 34-D.Ward pushed ob at PHI 27 for 2 yards (22-A.Samuel).

4-2-PHI 27 (13:46) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle to PHI 24 for 3 yards (97-B.Bunkley).

1-10-PHI 24 (13:00) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 84-D.Johnson to PHI 11 for 13 yards (57-C.Gocong).

1-10-PHI 11 (12:15) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to PHI 9 for 2 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

2-8-PHI 9 (11:39) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to PHI 9 for no gain (98-M.Patterson, 95-V.Abiamiri).

3-8-PHI 9 (10:53) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 34-D.Ward to PHI 4 for 5 yards (55-S.Bradley).

4-3-PHI 4 (10:05) 5-J.Carney 22 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-93-J.Alford, Holder-18-J.Feagles.

 

We converted a 4th and 2 by running the ball before Jacobs stalled inside the red zone, leading to a 3rd and 8 and eventual FG.

 

Our third possession:

 

2-D.Akers kicks 74 yards from PHI 30 to NYG -4. 44-A.Bradshaw to NYG 21 for 25 yards (27-Q.Mikell).

1-10-NYG 21 (5:52) 34-D.Ward up the middle to NYG 21 for no gain (27-Q.Mikell, 57-C.Gocong).

2-10-NYG 21 (5:13) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 23 for 2 yards (97-B.Bunkley, 20-B.Dawkins).

3-8-NYG 23 (4:28) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 12-S.Smith to NYG 34 for 11 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

1-10-NYG 34 (3:53) 34-D.Ward right tackle to NYG 34 for no gain (95-V.Abiamiri).

2-10-NYG 34 (3:05) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 35 for 1 yard (55-S.Bradley, 58-T.Cole).

3-9-NYG 35 (2:20) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 81-A.Toomer.

4-9-NYG 35 (2:11) 18-J.Feagles punts 45 yards to PHI 20, Center-51-Z.DeOssie. 10-D.Jackson to PHI 20 for no gain (57-C.Blackburn, 51-Z.DeOssie). PENALTY on PHI-37-S.Considine, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at PHI 20.

 

Our fourth possession:

 

1-10-NYG 36 (:03) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to NYG 47 for 11 yards (20-B.Dawkins, 39-Q.Demps).

END QUARTER 1

2ND QUARTER

New York Giants continues ...

1-10-NYG 47 (15:00) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to NYG 49 for 2 yards (98-M.Patterson, 93-T.Laws).

2-8-NYG 49 (14:27) 27-B.Jacobs left end to 50 for 1 yard (57-C.Gocong).

3-7- (13:41) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep left to 12-S.Smith.

4-7- (13:29) 18-J.Feagles punts 45 yards to PHI 5, Center-51-Z.DeOssie, downed by NYG-51-Z.DeOssie. Ball batted back by #24 - T.Thomas

 

We see a lot of instances here where our running game failed to produce on 1st and 2nd down. Consistently converting 3rd and 9's is difficult. It's even more difficult when the wind was as bad as you believe.

 

Our next four possessions ended in FG attempts (two makes, two misses) and fell behind 20-11 on the first play of the 4th quarter. We did not panic and stuck to the running game. Here's what happened:

 

4th QUARTER

 

2-D.Akers kicks 73 yards from PHI 30 to NYG -3. 44-A.Bradshaw to NYG 24 for 27 yards (50-T.Daniels).

1-10-NYG 24 (14:50) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 35 for 11 yards (58-T.Cole, 57-C.Gocong).

1-10-NYG 35 (14:21) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 40 for 5 yards (20-B.Dawkins, 55-S.Bradley).

2-5-NYG 40 (13:44) (Shotgun) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 42 for 2 yards (55-S.Bradley, 58-T.Cole).

3-3-NYG 42 (13:03) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 44 for 2 yards (20-B.Dawkins). New York Giants challenged the runner was down by contact ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #2.)

4-1-NYG 44 (12:39) 10-E.Manning up the middle to NYG 44 for no gain (98-M.Patterson, 97-B.Bunkley).

 

Eagles go 3 & out and punt...

 

1-10-NYG 11 (10:22) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 25 for 14 yards (39-Q.Demps).

1-10-NYG 25 (9:47) 34-D.Ward right tackle to NYG 34 for 9 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

2-1-NYG 34 (9:09) 34-D.Ward left tackle to NYG 39 for 5 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

1-10-NYG 39 (8:31) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 81-A.Toomer to NYG 45 for 6 yards (55-S.Bradley).

2-4-NYG 45 (8:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 47 for 2 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

3-2-NYG 47 (7:24) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right end to NYG 47 for no gain (75-J.Parker, 56-A.Jordan). Direct Snap.

4-2-NYG 47 (6:40) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 48 for 1 yard (97-B.Bunkley, 55-S.Bradley).

 

We ran. They stopped us. And we were relegated to desperation mode for the rest of the game.

 

We ran...if 169 yards rushing = "stopping us", then I can live with that.

 

Note the red highlights - short passes working, rushing game working (particularly, the running up the middle....note that the limited gains seemed to be tackle/end)

 

Again, the medium/long routes are baffling. And giving it to Manning on 4th and short was a joke.

[Money]

We ran...if 169 yards rushing = "stopping us", then I can live with that.

 

Note the red highlights - short passes working, rushing game working (particularly, the running up the middle....note that the limited gains seemed to be tackle/end)

 

Again, the medium/long routes are baffling. And giving it to Manning on 4th and short was a joke.

 

They stopped us at critical times, notably two 4th downs (QB sneak is one of the most high percentage short-yardage plays in football). And we were caught in numerous 3rd and longs, which obviously isn't ideal and was the point of the exercise.

 

NFL.com does not have clear designations for "short" and "medium" and "long," so I really wouldn't wouldn't put much stock in those descriptions (for example, the "short" passes to Darcy and Smith in 1st quarter traveled more than 10 yards in the air, but were strangely classified as short). Plus, the QB throws the ball, not the offensive coordinator. Since there's no way to separate the play design from the QB's decision, crying foul at Gilbride remains a foolhardy approach.

 

Also, when the defense crowds the LOS, the makes the short passing game less viable. That's where being able to challenge the defense downfield pays off.

[Nesta]

In this case, it was suggested that Gilbride didn't call enough running plays. And that's untrue; we committed to the run at an exaggerated rate (57% before the final two desperation drives). And, as the above sequences show, the Eagles stopped our running game at the most critical times. You all wanted Gilbride to run the ball and he did ... and we lost because they stopped us.

 

The run was the only thing working at all. And if you break the game into quarters you'll see we weren't over-committed.

But that's the problem. Why force balance just for the sake of calling your offense balanced. Manning was slinging well under 50% up until the last 2 drives. The passing game gave up the ball with 3 turnovers, one netting 7 pts for philly. It wasn't there, and KG does nothing to adjust. He's been that guy for many many years. The guy that won the superbowl for us is the exception, not the rule.

 

And yeah they stopped our run at some key moments, and Gilbride stopped our run in key moments by completely ignoring it. 4 straight passes with 2 minutes left, inside the Philly 26, leaving enough time for a 68 yard Philly drive and fg. Inside the 17 and a drive killed by two straight incompletions following 16 yards on 2 carries by BJ.

 

To me, it doesn't matter how many times we passed. We passed at least 3 times too many wouldn't you say?

You witness what is happening on the field, not only with the defense but your own players, and give them every advantage to win. I honestly don't think he did that, as Manning was struggling early on, no recievers were stepping up, and the running game was steadily getting better over the course of the game. To me you can hang 10 points solely on Gilbride, then 6 on Carney. That's the difference in the game.

[BlueInCanada]

I have to admit this thread is getting pretty funny.

[Nas]

Here is a summary of what I've been suggesting:

 

• I think it qualified as a bad weather game.
• I think the offensive coordinator was foolish...his game plan played to the strength of the opposition. I think Jacobs strength is running between the tackles against an undersized Philly line, as opposed to running parallel to the line of scrimmage.
• I think passing 3x when you have 1st and 5 was idiotic. You make a point concerning Eli's audible, but that only explains one down. And that doens't explain the collective coaching brainlock on both sides of the ball that in completely misplaying the end of the 1st half.
• I think Bradshaw was completely misused. Bradshaw touched the ball 6 times in the return game for 180 yards, including a 65 yard burst. And yet, strangely, Gilbridge couldn't find a role for him on offense? We're talking about the same runningback who in a similar bad weather game (Buffalo 2007 season) saved their playoff chances.
• I mentioned that Eli's bad weather problems lie with wind, and not cold, and I've made a point of mentioning the Green Bay game in that regard.
• I posted the link above to reflect that Eli needs to work on his mechanics with respect to delivering the ball in the Meadowlands, a point that was brought up by Bob Papa and Carl Banks.

 

Yea but what the hell is underwriting fee?

[Nas]

The Eagles were the better team.

 

 

That is all.

 

No they weren't.

[JMFP]

Yea but what the hell is underwriting fee?

 

Dude, you still in process?

[JMFP]

No-one is saying that. But blaming Gilbride for all the problems down the stretch last year isn't the solution either. I think he could have done a better job at times, but truth is the offense is and has to be pretty balanced to keep defences honest. Furthermore Gilbride and Coughlin let Eli audible, and Eli has changed some plays at the line like that one in the playoffs last year.

 

Again, another point. The defense wasn't the same down the stretch either yet Spags for the most part got a pass, why?

 

One other thing, Gilbride is less than one season away from being lauded for his calls leading during the playoffs. The team went 12-4 the next season. How is that all forgotten so quickly?. All this success is in spite of him???. Right now, there are a lot of other teams out there that would be on Gilbride's jock looking to hire him if we fired him, no question.

 

When the wind gets up, the Giants struggle. Minnesota (2007)...Washington (2007)....Philly (2008).....three good examples of the wheels falling off our offense whenever the Meadowlands gets breezy.

 

A great deal of that is the responsbility of Manning to handle...but surely, Gilbride has a responsibility to ensure that his gameplan gives the team the best chance to succeed, and that involves accounting for his players, his opponents, and the conditions on the field. Stuff like short passes, rollouts, screens, play-action....all things that could have been used more effectively. Tighter spirals, lower trajectories, shorter distances...it's a matter of physics.

 

I'll take Gilbride and Manning anyday.....in Arizona.

 

The Meadowlands in January?....not so much.