Somebody talk me down...

[ksm7]

My mistake, you are correct, 138. I was looking at the passing stats. My other comments remain unchanged.

 

Thanks, and good day to you sir.

 

no problem...the dog understand mistakes happen. however, if you could explain how rushing stats is indicative of out-hitting someone, well then...

[Nesta]

Offensive coordinators are a different ballgame, especially when contrasted with defensive coordinators. People loved Spags (and John Fox before him) but never missed an opportunity to rag on Gilbride, even though our offensive and defensive numbers were similarly good (i.e. top-10 in points, yards) during their tenures.

 

Let our defense suffer through weeks of inneffectiveness and you'll hear plenty about our DC. You don't recall Tim Lewis? People are still making jokes about him here.

 

It's intentionally lame. If you haven't picked up on it by now, I have a really low opinion of fans who purposefully deploy degrading nicknames as attempts at "comedy." Belicheat, Dim Lewis, etc. F-

 

And for the record, those Gilbride nicknames were made up by Houston Oilers fans in the early 1990s. So if anyone really wants to be funny, maybe they could come up with something original.

 

And why would Houston Oiler fans give, the man who gave them such a potent offense, such dreadful nicknames?

 

I live in Houston money. I know all about how the Oiler fans feel about him, and it's warranted. Just as his criticism for last year is warranted.

 

 

 

 

 

We ran frequently against Philly, too, even without the early point totals we were able to generate against the Panthers. But in that game, it didn't pay off.

 

Frequently, as in more often than we usually do, sure. Frequently, as in as much as we did in the Carolina game, no.

[JMFP]

I think you and Bradshaw need to take a tandem bicycle ride together. -1.4% DVOA. Fumbles. Two 1,000 yard rushers (not to mention the top two guys in DYAR) ahead of him. He did not play well last year, and the coaches could not trust him to play fundamentally sound. And yet were remiss to not get him more playing time?

 

You want to talk about mistakes, how about the inconceivable stubborness of using Bradshaw (rather than Hixon) as the kick returner, where he ranked 29th in the league. Field position is important, too...

 

Bradshaw broke off a 65 yard return the first time he touched the ball.

 

Great idea to let him cool off on the sidelines after that....wouldn't want him to take any carries away from Eli Manning.

 

Bradshaw and I on a tandem bike? Sure. We'll keep an eye out for you and Killdrive (I'll look for the slow moving bike with a basket on the handlebars).

[Virginia Giant]

Bradshaw broke off a 65 yard return the first time he touched the ball.

 

Great idea to let him cool off on the sidelines after that....wouldn't want him to take any carries away from Eli Manning.

 

Bradshaw and I on a tandem bike? Sure. We'll keep an eye out for you and Killdrive (I'll look for the slow moving bike with a basket on the handlebars).

Thats damn near the funniest sentence I've read in like 5 years of sportswratrh's existence.

 

 

 

I've tried seeing Money's POV of things, he sounds smart enough to have an opinion to respect, but it seems he comes here every 2 to 3 months just to disagree with the common opinion.

 

 

My memory is rusty, beer and old age has been hard on me, but I remember being very high on Killdrivefuck for the Eagles game, even after the loss to Minny. It wasn't so much the run vs pass number of plays, but the situation play calls. I remember knowing we would lose the game when we passed 3 straight times on 1st and 5 in or near the red zone before half. For that 3 plays alone he deserves every negative name we can give him.

[fishgutmartyr]

Thats damn near the funniest sentence I've read in like 5 years of sportswratrh's existence.

 

 

 

I've tried seeing Money's POV of things, he sounds smart enough to have an opinion to respect, but it seems he comes here every 2 to 3 months just to disagree with the common opinion.

 

 

My memory is rusty, beer and old age has been hard on me, but I remember being very high on Killdrivefuck for the Eagles game, even after the loss to Minny. It wasn't so much the run vs pass number of plays, but the situation play calls. I remember knowing we would lose the game when we passed 3 straight times on 1st and 5 in or near the red zone before half. For that 3 plays alone he deserves every negative name we can give him.

 

I disagree that the implication that the common opinion is justified. And I'll even go along with that playoff game being poorly called. The guy can create a great game plan: he just can't seem to adjust it in-game.

 

But I also recall the defense not being able to get the job done that game--where was the "Good riddance, Spags" thread? I'll save some time--you guys will tell me that Tuck and Robbins were injured, and the entire defense was worn out. Well, Burress was GONE, MacKenzie was having his back act up in the weeks leading up to the game, and Jacobs hadn't been 100% for weeks at that point...

 

The point is that these names were being used before the guy even called a game for us. And in the time we've had him, he almost pulled off a victory against the Eagles in the playoffs in 2006 (our defense couldn't stop them on their last drive), won us a Superbowl his first full year, and had our offense not just doing well, but dominating until a prime piece of it decided that he was a gunslinger.

 

Where is the justification for all the bile being spewed at the guy in his time as our OC? I mean, even if you go strictly playoffs, he's still 4-2...what the hell do you want from the poor guy?

 

The guy had a rep from previous teams, and I don't care if it was justified or not. But you guys are letting it cloud your judgment on what he's done on this team, and you are really losing sight of some of the most well-rounded offensive teams I've ever seen on the Giants.

 

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I disagree that the implication that the common opinion is justified. And I'll even go along with that playoff game being poorly called. The guy can create a great game plan: he just can't seem to adjust it in-game.

 

But I also recall the defense not being able to get the job done that game--where was the "Good riddance, Spags" thread? I'll save some time--you guys will tell me that Tuck and Robbins were injured, and the entire defense was worn out. Well, Burress was GONE, MacKenzie was having his back act up in the weeks leading up to the game, and Jacobs hadn't been 100% for weeks at that point...

 

The point is that these names were being used before the guy even called a game for us. And in the time we've had him, he almost pulled off a victory against the Eagles in the playoffs in 2006 (our defense couldn't stop them on their last drive), won us a Superbowl his first full year, and had our offense not just doing well, but dominating until a prime piece of it decided that he was a gunslinger.

 

Where is the justification for all the bile being spewed at the guy in his time as our OC? I mean, even if you go strictly playoffs, he's still 4-2...what the hell do you want from the poor guy?

 

The guy had a rep from previous teams, and I don't care if it was justified or not. But you guys are letting it cloud your judgment on what he's done on this team, and you are really losing sight of some of the most well-rounded offensive teams I've ever seen on the Giants.

 

Okay....so I'll call him Gilhump instead of fuck...there all better now....lol. I agree on the Spags screed....we really let him off of the hook with the prevent defense before the half and the inability for him to figure out a way for the Giants to get to McNabb that day. But Gilhumpty has to square his ass away and shit me Tiffany cufflinks....er okay I'll give him a break. But upon your head be it.

 

[Money]

Bradshaw broke off a 65 yard return the first time he touched the ball.

 

Great idea to let him cool off on the sidelines after that....wouldn't want him to take any carries away from Eli Manning.

 

Bradshaw and I on a tandem bike? Sure. We'll keep an eye out for you and Killdrive (I'll look for the slow moving bike with a basket on the handlebars).

 

Oh, you mean the kick return where he got run down by David Akers. If that's Hixon, we lead 7-0.

 

Turnovers = bad. That's your explanation for why Bradshaw doesn't get much playing time. Having two excellent RBs ahead of him factors into his deployment as well.

[Money]

Let our defense suffer through weeks of inneffectiveness and you'll hear plenty about our DC. You don't recall Tim Lewis? People are still making jokes about him here.

 

And why would Houston Oiler fans give, the man who gave them such a potent offense, such dreadful nicknames?

I live in Houston money. I know all about how the Oiler fans feel about him, and it's warranted. Just as his criticism for last year is warranted.

 

Frequently, as in more often than we usually do, sure. Frequently, as in as much as we did in the Carolina game, no.

 

During their concurrent tenures, Gilbride's offense and Spagnuolo's defense were almost identically effective according to a variety of metrics. Ranking inside the top-10. You would be very hard-pressed to make a case that our defense was better than our offense. Yet Spags is eternally reverred. The trend appears to be that any good DC will be loved and respected, while any good OC will be second-guessed and ridiculed. I can't really identify the underpinnigs here, but it is what it is. I really suspect the Madden video game is apart of it.

 

Well since you are friendly with disgruntled Oilers fans, maybe you could lead the charge for the next generation of silly nicknames. After two decades, it's time for some fresh material.

 

Still disagree on the Philly game.

[Money]

Just out of curiosity...

 

Since so many of you think so lowly of Gilbride, please indulge my intrigue and name some offensive coordinators that you would rather have instead of him. Only present-day OC's count. Current head coaches are not eligible; only gentleman presently employed as "offensive coordinator" for an NFL team.

[fishgutmartyr]

Okay....so I'll call him Gilhump instead of fuck...there all better now....lol. I agree on the Spags screed....we really let him off of the hook with the prevent defense before the half and the inability for him to figure out a way for the Giants to get to McNabb that day. But Gilhumpty has to square his ass away and shit me Tiffany cufflinks....er okay I'll give him a break. But upon your head be it.

Tell you what--if he totally fucks up this year, I'll sharpen the tines on your pitchfork.

[boohyah]

Just out of curiosity...

 

Since so many of you think so lowly of Gilbride, please indulge my intrigue and name some offensive coordinators that you would rather have instead of him. Only present-day OC's count. Current head coaches are not eligible; only gentleman presently employed as "offensive coordinator" for an NFL team.

 

Again, I'm not saying I want to replace him, but I don't see any problems just down the road with marty morninweg. I know he has McNabb and Westbrook, but up to last season they didn't have a decent wideout on the team and they've been able to put up some decent points. He's the first that comes to mind.

 

 

[Treehugger]

I was thinking that most of my Gilbile (see what I did there?) comes from the 2007 season and that he did much better last year. Then I watched some of the Giants @ Eagles on NFL Replay yesterday and had to watch the terrific call of 'Shotgun Draw to Jacobs' on 3rd & Goal. A delayed run play on an obvious running down into a full blitz. We ended up with a FG.

 

It's playcalling like that which stick in your head, just like dropped TDs which forever sour some peoples' opinions of players.

[Virginia Giant]

I disagree that the implication that the common opinion is justified. And I'll even go along with that playoff game being poorly called. The guy can create a great game plan: he just can't seem to adjust it in-game.

 

But I also recall the defense not being able to get the job done that game--where was the "Good riddance, Spags" thread? I'll save some time--you guys will tell me that Tuck and Robbins were injured, and the entire defense was worn out. Well, Burress was GONE, MacKenzie was having his back act up in the weeks leading up to the game, and Jacobs hadn't been 100% for weeks at that point...

 

The point is that these names were being used before the guy even called a game for us. And in the time we've had him, he almost pulled off a victory against the Eagles in the playoffs in 2006 (our defense couldn't stop them on their last drive), won us a Superbowl his first full year, and had our offense not just doing well, but dominating until a prime piece of it decided that he was a gunslinger.

 

Where is the justification for all the bile being spewed at the guy in his time as our OC? I mean, even if you go strictly playoffs, he's still 4-2...what the hell do you want from the poor guy?

 

The guy had a rep from previous teams, and I don't care if it was justified or not. But you guys are letting it cloud your judgment on what he's done on this team, and you are really losing sight of some of the most well-rounded offensive teams I've ever seen on the Giants.

 

 

I think some of the shine wore off Spags toward the end, there wasn't the outcry for him to stay that was showed after the '07 season, and the reason he maybe didn't get some of the criticism he deserved is because of the D's performance in the SB.

 

Gillbride is an adequate play caller, but he most certainly does like to throw the ball, and worse, he forces it. In the Browns game Eli played like shit and the running game was going great, yet we continued to let Eli shit tyhe bed and throw INT's

 

Anytime the wind is really kicking I can pretty much bet money we'll throw the ball 35-40 times.

 

In the Redskins game where it was raining like hell, a game we won and Eli played well, but he shouldn't have been throwing like that, that.

 

I have seen many games where in the first quarter we do a good job of mixing run vs pass, the running game is dominating, the opposing D is on their heels, and then we start to let them off the hook by forcing passes.

[Nesta]

During their concurrent tenures, Gilbride's offense and Spagnuolo's defense were almost identically effective according to a variety of metrics. Ranking inside the top-10. You would be very hard-pressed to make a case that our defense was better than our offense. Yet Spags is eternally reverred. The trend appears to be that any good DC will be loved and respected, while any good OC will be second-guessed and ridiculed. I can't really identify the underpinnigs here, but it is what it is. I really suspect the Madden video game is apart of it.

 

Well since you are friendly with disgruntled Oilers fans, maybe you could lead the charge for the next generation of silly nicknames. After two decades, it's time for some fresh material.

 

Still disagree on the Philly game.

 

Gilbride, or our offense if you'd prefer, goes through weeks of dysfunction at a time. Spags will occassionally lose a game with bad calls, but he has yet to make a streak out of it, unless you want to count the first two weeks of 2007 (and in that case, I recall lots of bitching about the DC). Gilbride has always been the type of OC with a productive offense between the 20's. He's been better for us, but he still falls back into his old ways now and again. Remember one thing though, Gilbride was handed an offense that led the league through most of '05, so the talent was there and functional. Before Spaggs' defense took hold, our defense was pathetic, despite the talent we had in place.

 

The nickname crusade will have to fall on your shoulders. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me at all. Now players giving themselves nicknames....

 

The numbers don't lie. We ran more often early in the game vs Carolina. That wore down the defense, and sprung Ward for big gains.

[Treehugger]

Gilbride, or our offense if you'd prefer, goes through weeks of dysfunction at a time. Spags will occassionally lose a game with bad calls, but he has yet to make a streak out of it, unless you want to count the first two weeks of 2007 (and in that case, I recall lots of bitching about the DC).

It's also usually harder to spot a bad defensive call. A busted defensive play usually gets blamed on a player.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Tell you what--if he totally fucks up this year, I'll sharpen the tines on your pitchfork.

 

 

Its a bet

[Money]

It's also usually harder to spot a bad defensive call. A busted defensive play usually gets blamed on a player.

 

That's part of it, certainly. More specifically, an offensive coordinator really only has two choices: run or pass. Unless he can think of some third revolutionary way to advance the ball, his choice boils down to those two options. That inherent simplicity empowers fans to be more critical (i.e. "we should have run more"). Conversly, no one besides the coaches and players understands the extent of the defensive scheme, the responsibilities, and the intricacy of all 11 players working together. With that type of asymetrical information, it's really hard to evaluate a defensive coordinator and separate his ability from the success/mistakes on the field.

[Money]

Gilbride, or our offense if you'd prefer, goes through weeks of dysfunction at a time. Spags will occassionally lose a game with bad calls, but he has yet to make a streak out of it, unless you want to count the first two weeks of 2007 (and in that case, I recall lots of bitching about the DC). Gilbride has always been the type of OC with a productive offense between the 20's. He's been better for us, but he still falls back into his old ways now and again. Remember one thing though, Gilbride was handed an offense that led the league through most of '05, so the talent was there and functional. Before Spaggs' defense took hold, our defense was pathetic, despite the talent we had in place.

 

The nickname crusade will have to fall on your shoulders. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me at all. Now players giving themselves nicknames....

 

The numbers don't lie. We ran more often early in the game vs Carolina. That wore down the defense, and sprung Ward for big gains.

 

I'm disinclined to accept the premise that our offense goes through multi-week slumps whereas our defense was more consistent. That requires another round of detailed research that I'm not interested in doing at the moment.

 

The nicknames bother me more from a comedy standpoint than from a fan standpoint, although I should point at that, good or bad, the guy is apart of our team.

 

Let me rephrase: just as we did against Carolina, I think we ran enough against the Eagles. The implied premise that we would have had similar success against the Eagles if we ran the ball more (as we did vs. the Panthers) doesn't hold up when you consider (a) the Panthers were without their best interior run defender, and (b) the Eagles had a top three run defense whereas the Panthers were towards the bottom (and that was when they had Chris Kemoeatu healthy).

[Money]

Again, I'm not saying I want to replace him, but I don't see any problems just down the road with marty morninweg. I know he has McNabb and Westbrook, but up to last season they didn't have a decent wideout on the team and they've been able to put up some decent points. He's the first that comes to mind.

 

I think he's good, too, and they seem to stay afloat even when McNabb or Westbrook miss time with injury. I also think if you go to an Eagles message board or listen to Philly area radio, you'd see tons of heat directed at him and Reid.

 

I'm curious who some of Gilbride's more vocal critics are have in mind.

 

TCBV, VG, nesta, jm4pz ... ?

[Nesta]

I'm disinclined to accept the premise that our offense goes through multi-week slumps whereas our defense was more consistent. That requires another round of detailed research that I'm not interested in doing at the moment.

 

The nicknames bother me more from a comedy standpoint than from a fan standpoint, although I should point at that, good or bad, the guy is apart of our team.

 

Let me rephrase: just as we did against Carolina, I think we ran enough against the Eagles. The implied premise that we would have had similar success against the Eagles if we ran the ball more (as we did vs. the Panthers) doesn't hold up when you consider (a) the Panthers were without their best interior run defender, and (b) the Eagles had a top three run defense whereas the Panthers were towards the bottom (and that was when they had Chris Kemoeatu healthy).

 

 

Do your research then we'll talk about it.

 

 

No one gets a break just because they're part of the team. If that were the case, we'd become stagnant with the same players year after year, good or bad. Every year, every player has to earn their roster spot, so what's a little criticism or name-calling going to hurt an OC?

 

You're not listening here. We kept feeding the run early on against Carolina. It wasn't paying off in the first half until inside the 2min mark. In fact, we did have similar success with the run in that first half vs. both teams. Just over 4 ypc. More runs early on, may have given a different result in the Philly game, but we'll never know. We do know, thanks to Giltard (how's you like that one?) that 14 incompletions, including 3 turnovers, will not help us beat the Eagles, but we don't know that 14 more runs wouldn't have helped in anyway.

 

About Gil's replacement:

 

That's a dumb question, and not one I'm interested in. There are hundreds of candidates, many of which I've never heard of. I'll stick to giving criticism to whoever is ON the team. Remember, I didn't say anything about firing the man, but if you think he deserves no criticism, you're high.

 

 

[Virginia Giant]

I think he's good, too, and they seem to stay afloat even when McNabb or Westbrook miss time with injury. I also think if you go to an Eagles message board or listen to Philly area radio, you'd see tons of heat directed at him and Reid.

 

I'm curious who some of Gilbride's more vocal critics are have in mind.

 

TCBV, VG, nesta, jm4pz ... ?

That would take days of research of college football candidates because likely, we aren't getting a better OC that is currently an OC for another team. I'm not int he mood to do that kind of studying right now, so I'll get back at ya.

[ksm7]

Do your research then we'll talk about it.

 

 

No one gets a break just because they're part of the team. If that were the case, we'd become stagnant with the same players year after year, good or bad. Every year, every player has to earn their roster spot, so what's a little criticism or name-calling going to hurt an OC?

 

You're not listening here. We kept feeding the run early on against Carolina. It wasn't paying off in the first half until inside the 2min mark. In fact, we did have similar success with the run in that first half vs. both teams. Just over 4 ypc. More runs early on, may have given a different result in the Philly game, but we'll never know. We do know, thanks to Giltard (how's you like that one?) that 14 incompletions, including 3 turnovers, will not help us beat the Eagles, but we don't know that 14 more runs wouldn't have helped in anyway.

 

About Gil's replacement:

 

That's a dumb question, and not one I'm interested in. There are hundreds of candidates, many of which I've never heard of. I'll stick to giving criticism to whoever is ON the team. Remember, I didn't say anything about firing the man, but if you think he deserves no criticism, you're high.

 

the dog has to disagree with this...jacobs carried 19 times and ward carried 14...that is consistent attempts at running the ball...and considering that 12 of jacob's 19 carries were for 3 yards or less, well, then it is difficult to stcik with the run for that long...

[Nas]

I think he's good, too, and they seem to stay afloat even when McNabb or Westbrook miss time with injury. I also think if you go to an Eagles message board or listen to Philly area radio, you'd see tons of heat directed at him and Reid.

 

I'm curious who some of Gilbride's more vocal critics are have in mind.

 

TCBV, VG, nesta, jm4pz ... ?

 

Not me . I've on occassion joined the blame it on Gilbride bandwagon but this never went out of normal frustration that surrounds a tough loss. I can tell you Plax was my guy.. when it comes to criticism. I felt bad for what had happened to him late last year... i wish him the best of luck... just not against us.

[JMFP]

Oh, you mean the kick return where he got run down by David Akers. If that's Hixon, we lead 7-0.

 

Turnovers = bad. That's your explanation for why Bradshaw doesn't get much playing time. Having two excellent RBs ahead of him factors into his deployment as well.

 

Bradshaw busts a 65 yarder, and you're critical about it...unbelievable. Akers had a good angle on him, and credit him with being a sound tackler for a kicker. You make it sound like Akers pulled a Leon Lett on Bradshaw.

 

Come on, Money, admit it was a good play. And for the game, he finished with 180 return yards. As for his career, he's already 4th all-time in Giants kickoff return yards.

 

And Bradshaw led the Giants in rushing in the prior postseason ....one more reason why his lack of touches this time around mystifies me. I'm not saying he deserved to bump Jacobs aside, but he should have been mixed in to the gameplan, especially given our struggles in the passing game.

 

Since he's been drafted, no other running back is a bigger threat to take it to the house. Again, that's a fact - he owns the biggest rushing plays each of the last two seasons.

 

http://www.giants.com/team/player305.html

[Nas]

Bradshaw busts a 65 yarder, and you're critical about it...unbelievable. Akers had a good angle on him, and credit him with being a sound tackler for a kicker. You make it sound like Akers pulled a Leon Lett on Bradshaw.

 

Come on, Money, admit it was a good play. And for the game, he finished with 180 return yards. As for his career, he's already 4th all-time in Giants kickoff return yards.

 

And Bradshaw led the Giants in rushing in the prior postseason ....one more reason why his lack of touches this time around mystifies me. I'm not saying he deserved to bump Jacobs aside, but he should have been mixed in to the gameplan, especially given our struggles in the passing game.

 

Since he's been drafted, no other running back is a bigger threat to take it to the house. Again, that's a fact - he owns the biggest rushing plays each of the last two seasons.

 

http://www.giants.com/team/player305.html

 

Damn, Joe. I'm impressed. :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy: