ARod a Steroid Abuser

[Herc]

i definitely had my suspicions about schilling. he had a pretty sick stretch from his last couple of years with the phillies all the way to 2004. i just can't believe someone who is THIS vocal and puts himself THIS much out there on this issue can be a hypocrite about it. not after what happened with palmeiro.

 

ortiz and tek are definites IMO.

 

but again, who cares. with the exceptions of peavy, chris young and adrian gonzalez i can't see myself getting upset about anyone's name surfacing in this

[Lubeck]

What does Selig think he is doing talking about punishing Arod?

[Herc]

grandstanding. he can't do shit for his admission about 2002 and 2003 w/o apositive test

[Lubeck]

grandstanding. he can't do shit for his admission about 2002 and 2003 w/o apositive test

 

Well there is a positive test otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The problem is there was no punishment associated with failing a test and the one test he did fail was on a sampling of use and the results were supposed to be confidential.

[Herc]

Well there is a positive test otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The problem is there was no punishment associated with failing a test and the one test he did fail was on a sampling of use and the results were supposed to be confidential.

 

right, that's what im saying--the one bit of proof they have besides his admission is a 2001 positive test that is unpunishable. in 2002 and 2003 the only way you could be punished wa sto have a failed test--so i dont see how there is anything that can be done to him

[xxi-xxv]

i definitely had my suspicions about schilling. he had a pretty sick stretch from his last couple of years with the phillies all the way to 2004. i just can't believe someone who is THIS vocal and puts himself THIS much out there on this issue can be a hypocrite about it. not after what happened with palmeiro.

 

ortiz and tek are definites IMO.

 

but again, who cares. with the exceptions of peavy, chris young and adrian gonzalez i can't see myself getting upset about anyone's name surfacing in this

 

I wonder if Ortiz was a roider. He was never exactly in tip top shape and I believe his abilities were aided by a good coaching staff that corrected his hitch and wanting to pull everything and of course hitting in front of Manny.

[Herc]

I wonder if Ortiz was a roider. He was never exactly in tip top shape and I believe his abilities were aided by a good coaching staff that corrected his hitch and wanting to pull everything and of course hitting in front of Manny.

 

i might be wrong but im pretty sure he was never considered to be a player who had 40+ homer potential when he was coming up--more of a high ba/doubles guy. the heart palpitations don't help erase any suspicion on my part either.

[mickeef2]

I know you'd like to believe that but the actual truth of guys like Giambi, Clemens, and Arod is that they started roiding with other teams.

 

The Yankees, with Clemens bringing in his "personal trainer", knew exactly what was going on. And Clemens and Pettite were doing roids together with the Yanks. I'm not saying the Yanks created a culture of steroid use, but they have had plenty of offenders both before and during their time with the team. Trust me, management knows what's going on in the clubhouse.

 

The Yankees biggest mistake was in going after the "top" players who were being aided by steriods. Fortunately for you, your scrappy dirt dog Sox can't "afford" to keep up with the Yankees so they lose out on these players and spend 51,111,111 for the rights to talk with lovable clean and upstanding foriegn pitchers who can't help walking the bases loaded every inning.

 

Sounds like that bitterness you claim Red Sox fans carry around with them.

 

And please don't claim the morale high ground with regards to avoiding getting suspected steriod users when the Mitchell Report documents e-mails with the Red Sox front office discussing Eric Gagne's highly suspected steriod use before trading for him, and they went ahead and got him anyway.

 

This a weak argument I often hear from you guys. The Sox, if anything, were expressing concern during those conversations that they were getting a roid guy. It was pretty clear that they were not interested if he was still doing it.

 

Your team almost got Arod and this would have been your problem. Of course, all the Red Sox Fans were going out of thier minds with glee thinking they had A-rod until the last minute when the deal fell through and he went to the Yankees. If that deal had gone through would that have made your team cheaters too?

 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda buddy. The fact is, if it were just ARod, it wouldn't be that big a deal. But it's starting to become a pattern with your team, and it's a lot of fun to watch.

 

The true answer is no. You already have/have had players on your team who are roiding. If Mitchell had used a trainer in the Red Sox clubhouse to gather information for the Mitchell Report then there would have been a few more names on the list that would have had you cringing. Lucky for you, Mitchell went with the trainer who was in the Yankees and Mets Clubhouses. I would hope Mitchell didn't allow his stake in the Red Sox Organization to effect his judgement regarding the fact that no prominent Red Sox were on the list, but we'll never know. Bud was the one who made the decision and screwed that one up like he has everything else.

 

Again, this is one big paragraph full of conjecture. You can wish for whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true at this moment in time. The reason they went to a guy in the Yankee clubhouse is probably because that was where the most blatant problem existed.

 

The Giambi thing is an absolute lie. His contract was ridiculously unmovable and if you bothered to take off the Red Sox colored glasses you would know this. The minute Giambis contract was up this year, it was bye bye. Although I think you do understand this and you are hoping that I am stupid and will believe your fanboyish attempts to attack the Yankees. Interestingly enough, i don't see you denying your inferiority complex driven obsession for the Yankees. I'm glad you've come to accept it.

 

I wasn't talking about them moving him. I guess I need to remind you that the Yankees wanted to void his contract after the steroid thing broke.

 

By the way, you can't have an inferiority complex when your team has won two Championships in five years to your rival's zero, including the biggest choke in the history of sport.

 

I got some news for you...just because no names have come out yet about your beloved Red Sox players doesn't mean you don't have a team full of cheaters too...I would bet all teams have a team full of cheaters if you were really honest with yourself in the fact that there are still 103 unnamed players on that list. If you prefer to live with your head in the sand then go for it....you'll just fit in nicely with all the other bitter spoiled sox fans who will be crying with their Pink hat wearing girlfriends when Big Papi goes down in a blaze of glory.

Have fun when that happens.

 

What you're forgetting is that for every Ortiz, there will also be a Bernie Williams and/or a Paul O'Neill. So yeah, it'll still be fun.

[Virginia Giant]

The Yankees, with Clemens bringing in his "personal trainer", knew exactly what was going on. And Clemens and Pettite were doing roids together with the Yanks. I'm not saying the Yanks created a culture of steroid use, but they have had plenty of offenders both before and during their time with the team. Trust me, management knows what's going on in the clubhouse.

 

 

 

Sounds like that bitterness you claim Red Sox fans carry around with them.

 

 

 

This a weak argument I often hear from you guys. The Sox, if anything, were expressing concern during those conversations that they were getting a roid guy. It was pretty clear that they were not interested if he was still doing it.

 

 

 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda buddy. The fact is, if it were just ARod, it wouldn't be that big a deal. But it's starting to become a pattern with your team, and it's a lot of fun to watch.

 

 

 

Again, this is one big paragraph full of conjecture. You can wish for whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true at this moment in time. The reason they went to a guy in the Yankee clubhouse is probably because that was where the most blatant problem existed.

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about them moving him. I guess I need to remind you that the Yankees wanted to void his contract after the steroid thing broke.

 

By the way, you can't have an inferiority complex when your team has won two Championships in five years to your rival's zero, including the biggest choke in the history of sport.

 

 

 

What you're forgetting is that for every Ortiz, there will also be a Bernie Williams and/or a Paul O'Neill. So yeah, it'll still be fun.

 

Not for nothing, but Daniels, while the assistant gm, had expressed concerns, asking the trainer or someone within the Rangers coaching staff they thought Arod was juicing and that person told him he thought he was. Not saying the Sox were made aware of these concerns, but these kind of things have a way of making their way around the league.

 

[IntlGrounding]

The Yankees, with Clemens bringing in his "personal trainer", knew exactly what was going on. And Clemens and Pettite were doing roids together with the Yanks. I'm not saying the Yanks created a culture of steroid use, but they have had plenty of offenders both before and during their time with the team. Trust me, management knows what's going on in the clubhouse.

 

There is not one clubhouse in baseball that doesn't know that steriods was being used. there is not one person in the MLB offices that didn't know. They all purposefully looked away and everyone is guilty and no one can claim the morale high ground and point fingers

 

I've been saying this pretty clearly all along.

 

 

Sounds like that bitterness you claim Red Sox fans carry around with them.

 

I call it facts when calling out a hypocrite.

 

This a weak argument I often hear from you guys. The Sox, if anything, were expressing concern during those conversations that they were getting a roid guy. It was pretty clear that they were not interested if he was still doing it.

 

Keep up the spin machine. You'll make your fellow sox fans proud

 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda buddy. The fact is, if it were just ARod, it wouldn't be that big a deal. But it's starting to become a pattern with your team, and it's a lot of fun to watch.

 

It'll be fun until it's someone on your team. Unlike you, I won't have people lining up waiting to shove it back in my face because I was so obsessed with my rival that I had to throw stones when my team lives in a glass house.

 

Again, this is one big paragraph full of conjecture. You can wish for whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true at this moment in time. The reason they went to a guy in the Yankee clubhouse is probably because that was where the most blatant problem existed.

 

Well you can keep guessing or I can tell you the actual fact. The guy who was busted worked for the NY clubhouses. That's all they went with. Mitchell, the one chosen to compile the report, has a stake in the Red Sox and is buddy buddy with the front office. There are plenty of articles and pictures documenting it I am not wishing or hoping...it's black and white. Google is your friend.

 

I wasn't talking about them moving him. I guess I need to remind you that the Yankees wanted to void his contract after the steroid thing broke.

 

Sure they did, because he was falling apart physically. However you claimed that they kept him when he "started hitting home runs". Of course this was your subtle insinuation that he was roiding again. or maybe not...I never know with you sneaky bitter sox fans. Either way, regardless of if he started hitting home runs legitimately or not, they wanted him off the team and couldn't do it because the morons involved in signing him back in 2001 gave him a horrible contract.

 

By the way, you can't have an inferiority complex when your team has won two Championships in five years to your rival's zero, including the biggest choke in the history of sport.

 

In a sentance denying your inferiority complex, you need to yet again involve the Yankees by comparing our WS totals and reference the "biggest choke in the history of the sport"? You betray yourself too easily. Very funny.

 

What you're forgetting is that for every Ortiz, there will also be a Bernie Williams and/or a Paul O'Neill. So yeah, it'll still be fun.

 

The difference is that it would not suprise me and I have stated it.

 

You come on here talking crap and pointing fingers as a bitter Red Sox fan. We can laugh at you now for your ignorance and continue laughing when the bullshit hits you in the face as Ortiz is giving his press conference admitting he used steriods. In fact, it appears as though he already has prepared us with his excuse in case it comes out that he has: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ortizsteroids

[Allstarjim]

Rollie Fingers is pretty much adored for his altering the ball. Spitters, scuffing the ball, corked bats, etc are in the lore of baseball.

 

Then you move on to substances. Amphetamines and cocaine were huge in baseball. Willie Mays and Hank Aaron used amphetamines, I mean, who's never heard the term "greenies" when it comes to baseball players.

 

Baseball produced and encouraged the roid culture in baseball, and I think it's s sham that all of a sudden people are outraged and baseball is now trying to make them pay. Why should McGuire, Bonds, Sosa be held out of the Hall of Fame? Bud Selig is the one who belongs in jail, you want to be outraged be outraged at him for turning a blind eye. Don't be shocked when baseball players will do what they've always done, trying to gain a competitive advantage, especially while baseball sat around and let them do it, and encouraged them to do it. Why do you think there wasn't steroid testing until this decade? Only when the heat go turned on did baseball all of a sudden find a conscience.

 

 

Here's a pretty good site.

 

VG, like I said, scuffing up the ball and the sort of thing, while technically cheating, it is gamesmanship and I think it's not really a big deal. People who do that are eventually going to get caught, especially today in the era of HD cameras.

 

But I wouldn't say "all of a sudden" people are outraged. When it came to be known that greenies were commonplace, I know I myself as a fan was very disappointed. I think there was similar outrage and dissapointment among the public. However, the media didn't cover it the same as something like this with A-Rod. Now there are reports and names being named. There are also like 5 ESPN networks and messageboards, and all kinds of forums for more people's voices to be heard. It doesn't mean the anger wasn't there, it's just more easily heard nowadays.

 

I don't know why Bud Selig should be in jail, though. Even if he knew it was taking place, he still really couldn't prove it because he had a player's union to deal with. He did institute testing. But even if he absolutely knew what was going on and who was doing it and did nothing... it makes him a bad guy but it doesn't mean he should be in jail. The law needs to go after the dealers and manufacturers of PEDs, and to a lesser degree, the users. But its those that are directly profiting from the sale of PEDs that I would want the law to prosecute.

 

[Virginia Giant]

VG, like I said, scuffing up the ball and the sort of thing, while technically cheating, it is gamesmanship and I think it's not really a big deal. People who do that are eventually going to get caught, especially today in the era of HD cameras.

 

But I wouldn't say "all of a sudden" people are outraged. When it came to be known that greenies were commonplace, I know I myself as a fan was very disappointed. I think there was similar outrage and dissapointment among the public. However, the media didn't cover it the same as something like this with A-Rod. Now there are reports and names being named. There are also like 5 ESPN networks and messageboards, and all kinds of forums for more people's voices to be heard. It doesn't mean the anger wasn't there, it's just more easily heard nowadays.

 

I don't know why Bud Selig should be in jail, though. Even if he knew it was taking place, he still really couldn't prove it because he had a player's union to deal with. He did institute testing. But even if he absolutely knew what was going on and who was doing it and did nothing... it makes him a bad guy but it doesn't mean he should be in jail. The law needs to go after the dealers and manufacturers of PEDs, and to a lesser degree, the users. But its those that are directly profiting from the sale of PEDs that I would want the law to prosecute.

Like I said in my last post, the more time goes on and the more i read, the more i believe Hank Aaron was on steroids. They didn't start in the late 80's.

[fringe]

Like I said in my last post, the more time goes on and the more i read, the more i believe Hank Aaron was on steroids. They didn't start in the late 80's.

Ty Cobb had a huge head

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

There are many things, including HGH, that are undetectable under the current guidelines. Anybody with half a brain is not taking steroids anymore.

 

That word is used completely out of context these days. Not ALL PED's are steroids. HGH I have no problem with. It's a natural hormone that your body produces, only it starts to dwindle as you get older. It's no different than taking supplements.

[mickeef2]

In a sentance denying your inferiority complex, you need to yet again involve the Yankees by comparing our WS totals and reference the "biggest choke in the history of the sport"? You betray yourself too easily. Very funny.

 

Of all of your weak arguments in this thread (that would be all of them), this has gotta be the weakest. So now I can't even allude to the Yankees without being obsessed with them? If that's what it takes for you to regain some of your pride, have at it, bud. We could go back and forth about all of your other "points" all day.

[IntlGrounding]

Of all of your weak arguments in this thread (that would be all of them), this has gotta be the weakest. So now I can't even allude to the Yankees without being obsessed with them? If that's what it takes for you to regain some of your pride, have at it, bud. We could go back and forth about all of your other "points" all day.

 

Typical retort when one does not really have a response. Pretty weak.

[xxi-xxv]

WHat is really deploreable in all of this is SELIG now all of a sudden talking about it. That whore used the Sosa, McGwire, Bonds accolades of 1998-2002 as his own personal stomping ground to declare how the game is back. How dare he even so much as utter a bad word Arods way. I am no AROD fan by any means, but come on Bud, you used that era and its success as much to land the permanent commisioners job as these players did to break records and make money.

 

Know what the end all would be? If it ever comes out that Ripken used, because IMO his record is the most unattainable in all of sports.

 

Selig should just shut the fuck up already and the players on that list should stop paying union dues because those assholes never destroyed that list in hopes of somehow showing that it never really happened.

[fringe]

WHat is really deploreable in all of this is SELIG now all of a sudden talking about it. That whore used the Sosa, McGwire, Bonds accolades of 1998-2002 as his own personal stomping ground to declare how the game is back. How dare he even so much as utter a bad word Arods way. I am no AROD fan by any means, but come on Bud, you used that era and its success as much to land the permanent commisioners job as these players did to break records and make money.

 

Know what the end all would be? If it ever comes out that Ripken used, because IMO his record is the most unattainable in all of sports.

 

Selig should just shut the fuck up already and the players on that list should stop paying union dues because those assholes never destroyed that list in hopes of somehow showing that it never really happened.

x, bud thought that alex would eventually grab the home run crown from barry and it would be 'clean' again. now that alex is dirty, he's talking about expunging barry completely and giving it back to his bff, hank. oh, what a tangled web this is.

[Virginia Giant]

WHat is really deploreable in all of this is SELIG now all of a sudden talking about it. That whore used the Sosa, McGwire, Bonds accolades of 1998-2002 as his own personal stomping ground to declare how the game is back. How dare he even so much as utter a bad word Arods way. I am no AROD fan by any means, but come on Bud, you used that era and its success as much to land the permanent commisioners job as these players did to break records and make money.

 

Know what the end all would be? If it ever comes out that Ripken used, because IMO his record is the most unattainable in all of sports.

 

Selig should just shut the fuck up already and the players on that list should stop paying union dues because those assholes never destroyed that list in hopes of somehow showing that it never really happened.

Amen, though I really don't think Ripken did roids, though that might be my favoritism because Cal is my favorite non Ranger, and ranks close to Nolan as my favorite all time player.

[feefifoefum]

This whole mess has confirmed my feeling that Griffey Jr. is the best that I have ever seen play.

 

Until next week's "shocking revelation" that he tested positive in 95 or something.

[xxi-xxv]

x, bud thought that alex would eventually grab the home run crown from barry and it would be 'clean' again. now that alex is dirty, he's talking about expunging barry completely and giving it back to his bff, hank. oh, what a tangled web this is.

 

So Selig, the league commisioner never knew ANY of the names of the 104 players tested in 2004? I find that hard to believe blu. If he did not, then fine, go off on AROD all you want, but if he did and now all of a sudden he will bash AROD because it came out, then he is a bigger asshole then we think he is.

 

And yes, I believe he does want Aaron to be the home run king, at this point who really cares. I believe that era of baseball(post strike to 2004) will be looked at like Pete Rose is, everyone will forget how great it was and focus clearly on the negative. This will diminsh the stats of all the players that played in that era and all the successful teams, right or wrong its just how its going to be.

[fringe]

So Selig, the league commisioner never knew ANY of the names of the 104 players tested in 2004? I find that hard to believe blu. If he did not, then fine, go off on AROD all you want, but if he did and now all of a sudden he will bash AROD because it came out, then he is a bigger asshole then we think he is.

 

And yes, I believe he does want Aaron to be the home run king, at this point who really cares. I believe that era of baseball(post strike to 2004) will be looked at like Pete Rose is, everyone will forget how great it was and focus clearly on the negative. This will diminsh the stats of all the players that played in that era and all the successful teams, right or wrong its just how its going to be.

 

good point- i don't think bud was privy to it until recently. at least, that is how he's acting.

[Virginia Giant]

This whole mess has confirmed my feeling that Griffey Jr. is the best that I have ever seen play.

 

Until next week's "shocking revelation" that he tested positive in 95 or something.

I agree with that, Griffey is the best I have seen, and has one of those swings I could watch all day.

[KillSmackPapa]

What does his steroid use before he got to the Yankees have to do with the Yankees? The only people who care are Red Sox fans becuase they are so jealous and tortured by both New York and the Yankees that they are ghouls.

 

Wake up Boston, your city sucks, your people are second rate and you'll never be New York.

 

Personally, I dont care about the steroid use at all. Baseball has been such a filthy sport for so long tht any ignorant crazy that believes it's pure probably thinks fucking a man doesnt make him gay.

 

Anyone know that baseball players were treated like slaves to the point where the SUpreme COurt had to free them 100 years after slavery was abolished?

[mickeef2]

What does his steroid use before he got to the Yankees have to do with the Yankees? The only people who care are Red Sox fans becuase they are so jealous and tortured by both New York and the Yankees that they are ghouls.

 

Excellent point. I can't find anything about this story in any of the NY papers, or on NY sports radio.