If Giants do not get Hall

[Lughead]

Giants have a Plan B if Hall slips by

 

Monday, February 25, 2008

BY MIKE GARAFOLO

Star-Ledger Staff

 

INDIANAPOLIS -- In 2005, the Giants selected a cornerback with their first draft pick. The following year, they signed two [

 

So why would they be looking to either trade for the Falcons' DeAngelo Hall or draft a corner in the first round of this year's draft? Well, because as much as the Giants believe they can never have enough pass rushers, they think they should have a wealth of cornerbacks as well.

 

"Cornerbacks are premium in this league. Everybody wants cornerbacks," general manager Jerry Reese said Saturday at the NFL Scouting Combine. "We want them, too."

 

If they don't get Hall (because another team offers a better deal to Atlanta or they can't negotiate a new contract with Hall's agent), the Giants will likely go to the draft to find their corner. And while it's still extremely early in the process, there's a chance they could wind up with their second consecutive winner of the Thorpe Award (for best defensive back in college football) after drafting Aaron Ross last year.

 

Arizona cornerback Antoine Cason is projected by many draft gurus to be selected late in the first round or early in the second. A few scouts, who requested anonymity because they don't want to publicly reveal their team's draft boards, agreed Cason is currently a late-first to early-second selection. The Giants, at No. 31 overall, are likely taking a long, hard look at Cason.

 

There are a few other cornerbacks who might be available late in the first round: Troy's Leodis McKelvin (5-11, 190 pounds), Tennessee State's Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (6-2, 183) and Kansas corner Aqib Talib (6-1, 202), who grew up in Trenton before moving to Texas.

 

At 6-0, 191 pounds, Cason has a similar build to Ross'. And like Ross, Cason played a lot of zone coverage in college but has a long build -- something the Giants knew would help Ross play tough on receivers at the line of scrimmage. Cason has also shown the ability to play man-to-man coverage.

 

Plus, he's got a lot of confidence he can do it all.

 

"A good cover guy, who can play man (and) zone," Cason said yesterday when asked to describe a shutdown cornerback. "Good tackler, good awareness on the field and knows what's going on in the backfield, knows where his help is on the field. And just pretty much knows (everything) overall defensively and makes plays."

 

So, does Cason believe that's an accurate description of himself?

 

I did not get the rest of the story. This Cason guy sounds like a pretty good prospect but he is a few inches shorter than what I would like

[gateb]

Smokescreen... I don't see Giants selecting a corner in the first again. We have a solid set in Ross Webster, Dockery, McQuarters, and Madison, one of which will be cut. I think the only reason we are looking into the Hall's and Trufant's is because Reese is intent on getting a shutdown corner to really distinguish this defense.

 

[Lughead]

Giants Information and Updates

 

By Michael Warren | February 24th, 2008

 

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Hey guys, sorry the updates have been lacking. I know you’re all waiting for some updates on the DeAngelo Hall situation, but there’s not much more out there. A deal cannot be made until next Friday, so there will be plenty of time for more information to come in. Here’s what we know so far: the Giants are interested and in discussions, it’s going to take more than a first-round pick to land him, and DeAngelo just wants to go somewhere that he’s wanted. The Cowboys have allegedly thrown in their 28th pick in the draft, which means that the Giants are going to have to offer a higher second pick then they’re willing to offer in order to land Hall. The G-Men also have to worry about the other 5 or 6 teams who are bidding for the corner’s services.

 

As for my opinion, at first I was extremely excited about it. Who wouldn’t be excited about the prospects of landing one of the top corners in the game who’s only 24-years-old? But then I started reading some more information and opinions and saw that he’s in the last year of his contract. Additionally, someone pointed out that he’s likely going to ask for about $10 million a year in an extension, which will take up roughly 40% of the cap. This means that when you trade for DeAngelo Hall, you’re not only trading likely a first round and a late round draft pick, you’re also devoting a vast portion of your cap room to him. Naturally this made me a bit apprehensive. But thinking about a guy who is the same age as Aaron Ross and playing at the premier level of the NFL makes me wonder whether it’s worth throwing all the eggs into the basket for this guy. It’s a very interesting situation which I’ll have to sit back and wait to unfold a bit further until taking a hard stance.

 

In other news:

 

* The Daily News and Newark Star-Ledger have speculated that Plaxico Burress and Osi Umenyiora might be looking to restructure their respective deals. Burress is signed through 2010 and he is scheduled to make $10.5 million more through the next three years. In 2005 Umenyiora signed around a $40 million contract that will expire in 2012.

 

* Meanwhile, the Giants have continued negotiating with the agents of both Kawika Mitchell and Gibril Wilson. The Jaguars have expressed interest in Wilson, who is due to hit the open market on February 29th. There’s little word regarding the progress in contract talks with the Giants and Wilson, and nothing right now has indicated that the two are at all close to a deal yet. It looks like if Reese wants to re-up Wilson, it’s going to come down to a bidding war for the SS.

 

* Drew Rosenhaus, agent of William Joseph has said that he expects the defensive tackle to be let go by the Giants this offseason. There’s also some talk that CB R.W. McQuarters, who is due $2.525 million in 2008, could be cut, leaving a new hole at the PR spot.

 

* Additionally, there is chatter that GM Jerry Reese has not ruled out the option of going after a franchise-tagged player, such as top free agent corners Marcus Trufant and Nnamdi Asumugha. Doing so would mean the Giants would owe either Seattle or Oakland not only a first round draft pick in 2008, but also in 2009 and then some. Here’s what he had to say on the scenario:

 

“Just because players are tagged doesn’t mean it’s the end of the line for them,” Reese said. “There still can be some situations you can work out some trade possibilities with teams who have tagged their players.”

 

Now I trust Reese, but if this holds any water, I can’t rightfully support him on it. That being said, I’m extremely confident that Reese is blowing smoke in order to let the Falcons know that the Giants have other options. That’s not a terrible strategy either.

 

* Lastly, Jeremy Shockey is finally off crutches and walking on his own power. He will be ready for the offseason program.

 

That’s all I have for today. I’m sorry I couldn’t give you anymore, but I’m sure there will be tons of sexy rumors flying around once the open market begins. I don’t foresee any big moves from the G-Men this year excluding the Hall situation. Truthfully, I’m just looking forward to another interesting draft that is sure to have a handful of hidden gems that Reese and co. could be in position to get their hands on again. I hope talks start progressing with Mitchell and Wilson, but we can only wait and see.

 

Until next time, Giants fans…

 

 

MCQ may be GONE oh thank the maker

 

 

I think the whole thing is a Smoke screen we will not get Hall,Trufant or Asumugha the price is too steep I bet we draft a CB in the 1st round especially if we do cut McQ and also lose Wilson.

[Lughead]

Smokescreen... I don't see Giants selecting a corner in the first again. We have a solid set in Ross Webster, Dockery, McQuarters, and Madison, one of which will be cut. I think the only reason we are looking into the Hall's and Trufant's is because Reese is intent on getting a shutdown corner to really distinguish this defense.

 

Madison is not the future he is getting old

 

[Nas]

Smokescreen... I don't see Giants selecting a corner in the first again. We have a solid set in Ross Webster, Dockery, McQuarters, and Madison, one of which will be cut. I think the only reason we are looking into the Hall's and Trufant's is because Reese is intent on getting a shutdown corner to really distinguish this defense.

 

Smokescreen indeed. When was the last time the Giants were projected to get someone and ended up actually getting that someone?

[Herc]

how is 10 mil a year 40% of the cap?

[Lubeck]

how is 10 mil a year 40% of the cap?

 

More importantly is any CB in the league worth 10 mil a year?

[NightFire]

More importantly is any CB in the league worth 10 mil a year?

 

Isn't Bailey getting paid something like that (Clements must be close).

[Lubeck]

Isn't Bailey getting paid something like that (Clements must be close).

 

Probably but like I said yesterday cornerbacks are a highly overvalued position that teams are spending too much money on.

[Herc]

i think true shut down corners are worth whatever the market says they are. if we consider hall to be a shutdown corner then im willing to pay the premium considering his age. i know we won the superbowl and i know webster made some good plays but i still dont trust him enough to man the #2 cb spot when the #1 cb has even less experience than him. i'd much rather have ross as the 2 and webster as the nickel--at least this season. and the bottom line is that hall is better than anyone we can get w/ the 31st pick, and if this cason guy is better than hall then in 3-4 years we'll have the same problem when he becomes a free agent--only this time we'll be talking about 12 or 13 million instead of 10

[Virginia Giant]

i think true shut down corners are worth whatever the market says they are. if we consider hall to be a shutdown corner then im willing to pay the premium considering his age. i know we won the superbowl and i know webster made some good plays but i still dont trust him enough to man the #2 cb spot when the #1 cb has even less experience than him. i'd much rather have ross as the 2 and webster as the nickel--at least this season. and the bottom line is that hall is better than anyone we can get w/ the 31st pick, and if this cason guy is better than hall then in 3-4 years we'll have the same problem when he becomes a free agent--only this time we'll be talking about 12 or 13 million instead of 10

Amen, imo Hall is every bit worth a first and third.

[Treehugger]

how is 10 mil a year 40% of the cap?

He must mean 'cap room', which is an encouraging remark if true.

[Taylorized56]

If anyone is interested you can watch the combine live online right now, it's db's today and I think this is the last day.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/live

[gateb]

Madison is not the future he is getting old

But Dockery, Webster, and Ross are.

[BleedinBlue]

After having a week or so to think this all through, I hope the Giants pass on Hall.....for several reasons.

 

1) the success of a cornerback has a lot more to do with a high pressure defensive line that forces the QB to throw early and off balance, than it does because of fleet footed athleticism of a CB

 

2) Hall will come at an extreme expense - both monetary and draft pick wise. And he has a proven record of not getting along with coaches....which in my opinion, spells H-U-G-E E-G-O, which plain out makes me nervous. I'd rather have a less athletic player who was a first class guy who followed directions from the coach and not someone who thinks they know more about football then the coach.

 

3) I'm all for going after free agents because it's merely a matter of money. In a case like this, giving up draft picks (especially the first rounder) is just too painful in addition to the kind of money we'll still have to shell out. Year after year I envy the teams with 2 first round picks. This year it's Dallas and New England (which lost one of course for cheating). I always look forward to draft day with extreme anticipation and it's as exciting for me as it used to be when I was a youngster getting ready for opening day of deer season or Christmas Eve. Bottom line....I don't want to give up a single draft pick for anyone. I'd rather see the team draft youngsters and mold them into great players.

[Lubeck]

Agreed 100% Bleedin. And I didn't even have to quote that essay you composed

[Virginia Giant]

After having a week or so to think this all through, I hope the Giants pass on Hall.....for several reasons.

 

1) the success of a cornerback has a lot more to do with a high pressure defensive line that forces the QB to throw early and off balance, than it does because of fleet footed athleticism of a CB

 

2) Hall will come at an extreme expense - both monetary and draft pick wise. And he has a proven record of not getting along with coaches....which in my opinion, spells H-U-G-E E-G-O, which plain out makes me nervous. I'd rather have a less athletic player who was a first class guy who followed directions from the coach and not someone who thinks they know more about football then the coach.

 

3) I'm all for going after free agents because it's merely a matter of money. In a case like this, giving up draft picks (especially the first rounder) is just too painful in addition to the kind of money we'll still have to shell out. Year after year I envy the teams with 2 first round picks. This year it's Dallas and New England (which lost one of course for cheating). I always look forward to draft day with extreme anticipation and it's as exciting for me as it used to be when I was a youngster getting ready for opening day of deer season or Christmas Eve. Bottom line....I don't want to give up a single draft pick for anyone. I'd rather see the team draft youngsters and mold them into great players.

 

 

The sucess of our secondary may be contributor to their sucess, but Hall has been a shut down corner nearly his entire short career. hall is a guy who takes a player, the teams best receiver, out of games. Everyone has bad games, but I will take Hall covering TO over Ross/Webster any day.

 

Hall will be expensive to re-sign, no doubt, but for a player of his caliber, if he plays up to standards, he'd be worth it. penny pinching is no more productive than spending freely. if a player is worth his price tag, so be it. As far as the draft pick/s. name one guy available at the 31st pick, hell, name one guy available the last half of the first round that will ever have an impact in games that hall does right now.

 

 

Players sometimes wish to leave a team, you cannot blame Hall for wanting out of Atlanta looking at the direction they are headed. As for his coach issues, everyone on the defensive side of the ball loves Spags, and most players seem to like the new version of TC. With the leadership on the defensive side of the ball, I see no reason to think hall would be any sort of problem. And with out pass rush, imagine how good he could be for us?

[BleedinBlue]

The sucess of our secondary may be contributor to their sucess, but Hall has been a shut down corner nearly his entire short career. hall is a guy who takes a player, the teams best receiver, out of games. Everyone has bad games, but I will take Hall covering TO over Ross/Webster any day.

 

Hall will be expensive to re-sign, no doubt, but for a player of his caliber, if he plays up to standards, he'd be worth it. penny pinching is no more productive than spending freely. if a player is worth his price tag, so be it. As far as the draft pick/s. name one guy available at the 31st pick, hell, name one guy available the last half of the first round that will ever have an impact in games that hall does right now.

Players sometimes wish to leave a team, you cannot blame Hall for wanting out of Atlanta looking at the direction they are headed. As for his coach issues, everyone on the defensive side of the ball loves Spags, and most players seem to like the new version of TC. With the leadership on the defensive side of the ball, I see no reason to think hall would be any sort of problem. And with out pass rush, imagine how good he could be for us?

I'd really rather take a chance on someone like Dominique Rodgers-Cromarti who's 4 years younger, 3 inches taller, and faster than Hall. Rodgers-Cromarti ran in the 4.20's today at the combine. Also, Rodgers-Cromarti has a great attitude and would keep a low profile while doing exactly what the coaches want out of him.

 

I think Hall dodged a bullet last year when his pit bulls attacked a man. His outspoken defense of best friends Michael and Marcus Vick (all V-Tech guys) and claiming Vick's innocense just smacks of trouble to me. I'm sure he had to know all about the dog fighting for years. Regardless, his relationship with Vick....his own bad-ass pit bulls....a little of the attitude of Marcus....etc., just doesn't sit well with me.

 

In the end....I'm simply going to trust Reese and TC to do what's best for the team. I have an unbelievable amount of faith in them.

[Virginia Giant]

I'd really rather take a chance on someone like Dominique Rodgers-Cromarti who's 4 years younger, 3 inches taller, and faster than Hall. Rodgers-Cromarti ran in the 4.20's today at the combine. Also, Rodgers-Cromarti has a great attitude and would keep a low profile while doing exactly what the coaches want out of him.

 

I think Hall dodged a bullet last year when his pit bulls attacked a man. His outspoken defense of best friends Michael and Marcus Vick (all V-Tech guys) and claiming Vick's innocense just smacks of trouble to me. I'm sure he had to know all about the dog fighting for years. Regardless, his relationship with Vick....his own bad-ass pit bulls....a little of the attitude of Marcus....etc., just doesn't sit well with me.

 

In the end....I'm simply going to trust Reese and TC to do what's best for the team. I have an unbelievable amount of faith in them.

If Cromarti is that fast/good, he won't be there for us. He's not faster than hall, I've read where Hall was ran 4.2's and even 4.15 on an indoor track. Hall also won the leagues fastest man award, and he only entered because a fan called him scared.

 

 

As far as the dogs, his dogs attacked someone, thats not good but it happens. My dog could go out and bite someone today, doesn't say anything about my character. Assuming because he has dogs and is friends with Vick that he is up to something more sisnister is unfair. he and Vick are friends, they went to school together. Are all of your friends perfect?

 

And his attitude is over stated, he's best known for his deal with Chad Johnson, but they are actually friends. He's not a criminal, he doesn't get into trouble. He got fined for supporting his former teammate, a guy he's been teammates with since college. At least he's a good friend.

[Lubeck]

I will say this if Hall were to join the team and if he did start any sort of trouble I can guarantee that Pierce and if he is back Strahan would be in his face in a quiet area where they are alone and....explain how things are done. But I would much rather keep the draft pickS. No doubt Hall has the talent worth a 31st pick, but is he worth a 1st and 3rd? Or a 1st and 4th? Reese has been pretty much the #2 guy in the draft war room these past couple years and this team is as much his as it is Ernie's. And this teams talent is almost entirely home-grown.

 

Positions not drafted by Giants:

 

FB (Hedgecock)

WR (Burress)

C (O'Hara)

RT (McKenzie)

OLB (Mitchell)

MLB (Pierce)

CB (Madison)

ST (Tynes, Feagles)

 

Out of our key starters that is a short list of players. And a lot of the guys we have that Reese would have been heavily involved in drafting are key starters today.

 

Eli, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Smith, Shockey, Boss, Snee, Osi, Cofield, Alford, Kiwi, Ross, Webster, Dockery, Wilson, Tuck off the top of my head are all valuable contributors that were drafted while Reese was heavily involved with the decision making.

 

My point is Hall is talented, and I will ignore his attitude issues, but the cost in draft picks is not worth it. Especially when you consider there are a couple Giants players who right now are looking at their contracts and thinking they should be getting paid more. We already have guys we know can win a freakin Super Bowl playing in the system.

 

The way teams are built is forever changing with the way salary cap increases are working lately. The philosophy a team should take, especially a team that has the core players with a SB win under their belt, is to do all they can to keep the valuable players they have and trust in the draft to provide fresh talent. Keeping the vets is becoming pricey so trying to have as many young guys on cheaper contracts as you can in my view is key.

 

If you have players at a position who are getting the job done but you need more bodies, overreacting and going after someone like Hall is the bad move. Trust in the FO who has built such a good team to keep bringing in the players they need. When you find a truly special player like Burress or Tuck you lock them in. But if a player like Wilson wants more money but you can find help cheaper elsewhere, do it.

[Virginia Giant]

I will say this if Hall were to join the team and if he did start any sort of trouble I can guarantee that Pierce and if he is back Strahan would be in his face in a quiet area where they are alone and....explain how things are done. But I would much rather keep the draft pickS. No doubt Hall has the talent worth a 31st pick, but is he worth a 1st and 3rd? Or a 1st and 4th? Reese has been pretty much the #2 guy in the draft war room these past couple years and this team is as much his as it is Ernie's. And this teams talent is almost entirely home-grown.

 

Positions not drafted by Giants:

 

FB (Hedgecock)

WR (Burress)

C (O'Hara)

RT (McKenzie)

OLB (Mitchell)

MLB (Pierce)

CB (Madison)

ST (Tynes, Feagles)

 

Out of our key starters that is a short list of players. And a lot of the guys we have that Reese would have been heavily involved in drafting are key starters today.

 

Eli, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Smith, Shockey, Boss, Snee, Osi, Cofield, Alford, Kiwi, Ross, Webster, Dockery, Wilson, Tuck off the top of my head are all valuable contributors that were drafted while Reese was heavily involved with the decision making.

 

My point is Hall is talented, and I will ignore his attitude issues, but the cost in draft picks is not worth it. Especially when you consider there are a couple Giants players who right now are looking at their contracts and thinking they should be getting paid more. We already have guys we know can win a freakin Super Bowl playing in the system.

 

The way teams are built is forever changing with the way salary cap increases are working lately. The philosophy a team should take, especially a team that has the core players with a SB win under their belt, is to do all they can to keep the valuable players they have and trust in the draft to provide fresh talent. Keeping the vets is becoming pricey so trying to have as many young guys on cheaper contracts as you can in my view is key.

 

If you have players at a position who are getting the job done but you need more bodies, overreacting and going after someone like Hall is the bad move. Trust in the FO who has built such a good team to keep bringing in the players they need. When you find a truly special player like Burress or Tuck you lock them in. But if a player like Wilson wants more money but you can find help cheaper elsewhere, do it.

 

 

Hall is with out question worth a first and third.

 

BTW, Reese has been watching tape of Hall since the middle of the season when speculation came out he wanted to be traded.

[so-cal dub]

After the combine today, I want Cromatie.. Screw Cason.

[BlueInCanada]

Am I the only one who still thinks we should draft a safety?

[Lughead]

Smokescreen indeed. When was the last time the Giants were projected to get someone and ended up actually getting that someone?

 

 

PLAX

[gateb]

Clayton said talks between the Giants and Seahawks are getting pretty heated. We give them either our first and second round picks of 2008 OR our first round picks in both 2008 and 2009.

 

Wow.